My Prediction...MemberX will....

[Nordic Superman]

Drink 2000 calories worth of pig fat and see if it changes your body composition

Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.

[Relentless]

How or why would anyone go about doing that? That is ignorant and not feasible to even suggest. 

Scroll back.  I said pick foods that you think are "dirty" and I will incorporate them daily along with whatever else I eat.  Read a bit more carefully.

What has this marvelous physique you have built off junk food actually done in the world of bodybuilding?  Does ANYONE take you seriously?

[The True Adonis]

Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.

Again, Science is on my side, not myth.

[dustin]

ANY FOOD can be included in a diet and can be properly balanced.

I can agree for the most part. But read my God damn post again. I explained things very clearly. If I ate 100g of fat in a meal that would not be in alignment with my goals or needs. That would not be "clean" eating, which I use within the well understood bodybuilding context, Adam. Quit trying to be an elitist smart ass.

I understand and respect what you're saying, but I don't appreciate how you play coy and question people like a dick. If you're as smart as you say you are, you wouldn't throw assinine rhetoric in our faces. Whether or not you agree with others' concepts, I'm sure you have no problem understanding them. I know you understand what I am saying. And you probably understand quite well.

I loosely eat a "CLEAN" bodybuilding diet, but I also eat intuitively and happily. If I decide I want to have some junk food post workout, I make sure it's got an appropriate amount of calories and hopefully it has the right amount of macro nutrients. It would not be "clean" if it were super high on sodium, trans fat or other unwanted junk. I permit myself to eat a little bit loosely because I find that it shakes things up and makes my dieting go a lot smoother. If I eat super clean like a traditional bodybuilder I look fantastic for a week, then my results come to a screaming halt. I can eat cheat meals every few days which helps, but I find that eating some pizza and burgers from time to time does a lot more mentally and physically than one would expect. At the same time, I wouldn't advise my fat friends to diet on Ben and Jerrys.

I guess it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do" kind of situation. For someone who's more intuitive and intelligent enough to identify their body's needs, I say that they shouldn't worry about eating a little more loosely (if they're on a conventional bodybuilder's diet, high protein, moderate carbs, low fat, always strict and bland foods).

[The True Adonis]

What has this marvelous physique you have built off junk food actually done in the world of bodybuilding?  Does ANYONE take you seriously?

Define junk food.  Also please list what I ate today.  Is Duck in Port sauce with a slice of Pecan Pie really junk food?  I think not.

[Relentless]

Forget it, truth and reason are a sinking ship here.

P.S. Adonis, I won't read my time reading that. I deal in facts and truths. One man's experience isn't every man's truth.

That's EXACTLY what this guy can't figure out.  He thinks his experience and reality can be applied to everyone else.  

One of his biggest problems is actually selling the idea to anyone; he's a total jerk by nature.  

[Nordic Superman]

Again, Science is on my side, not myth.

Science refutes your very premise on the equality of nutrients in the biological pathways used in the human body.

Your "truths" are select examples, of humans that could very well be the crème of the crop where genetics and nutrient utilization is concerned.

[The True Adonis]

Science refutes your very premise on the equality of nutrients in the biological pathways used in the human body.

Your "truths" are select examples, of humans that could very well be the crème of the crop where genetics and nutrient utilization is concerned.

What are you talking about? I am in agreement as I said earlier.

[Relentless]

Define junk food.  Also please list what I ate today.  Is Duck in Port sauce with a slice of Pecan Pie really junk food?  I think not.

Here you go again, for the millionth time.  Junk Food is a general term.

You're a very unlikeable person.  Ever wonder why you get so much flak on here?  There's a REASON behind it, TA!

[Relentless]

Quit trying to be an elitist smart ass.

This is impossible.  TA tries to be this, but fails miserably.  He's nothing but a deluded CLOWN.  He can be entertaining, but over time....it just gets old. 

[The True Adonis]

That's EXACTLY what this guy can't figure out.  He thinks his experience and reality can be applied to everyone else.  

One of his biggest problems is actually selling the idea to anyone; he's a total jerk by nature.  

Wrong.
If you scroll back, you and Disgusted were denouncing the Peer Reviewed Scientific studies I posted on the previous pages and said that your own experiences were more valuable and correct to which I scoffed upon.

You are wrestling with yourself here.  Scroll back and read the Studies if you like.

[dustin]

Look at the clowns used in all those studies. I don't refute published peer reviewed studies for any reason aside from the control groups and actual study conducted. But when you take regular sedentary fatasses and try preaching to people about your findings, it's hard to humor them. Science is good, but if the findings cannot by applied to us as bodybuilders then it really does us no good. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Those studies should be read with a grain of salt.... unless it doesn't fit in with your dietary needs!! Har har har har har.

[The True Adonis]

Here you go again, for the millionth time.  Junk Food is a general term.

You're a very unlikeable person.  Ever wonder why you get so much flak on here?  There's a REASON behind it, TA!

Why use the term "junk food"?  It is a misleading stereotype in regards to food which has directly caused obesity due to "diet confusion" thus causing a cloud of ignorance to descend on what should be logical eating and now eating is shrouded in mystery and has become  what Michael Pollan deems as "nutritionism".


Global Warming suffers from the same nonsense when it is a Scientific Fact and irrefutable.  The problem with both fields of study is the muddying of water due to the usage of general terms, stereotyping and over generalization.

It seems that you are in agreement with me then when you see the error in labeling any food as "junk food" as it is too broad and undescriptive and meaningless.

[wavelength]

how would you know roid monkey  

Nobody in his right mind would choose a diet made for masochists and fueled by the need to sell supplements over a well balanced diet that includes everything one likes to eat.

[The True Adonis]

Look at the clowns used in all those studies. I don't refute published peer reviewed studies for any reason aside from the control groups and actual study conducted. But when you take regular sedentary fatasses and try preaching to people about your findings, it's hard to humor them. Science is good, but if the findings cannot by applied to us as bodybuilders then it really does us no good. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Those studies should be read with a grain of salt.... unless it doesn't fit in with your dietary needs!! Har har har har har.

You would be suprised to learn that bodybuilders do not require much more "nutrition" than Sedentary Individuals.


Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass
M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
Department of Physical Education and Pediatrics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a 10-day period of normal protein intake followed by a 10-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein.kg-1.day-1. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

[wavelength]

I don't understand the critizism against TA. Whenever he speaks of experience, people say science refutes him. When he presents scientific articles to back up his claims, people say experience refutes him.

I don't think experience refutes him, it's just that very few people tried.

[MindSpin]

This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

[wavelength]

This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

So you're saying he would have easily won if he had entered?

[chester_bbb]

I wouldn't know since I haven't tried them, wavelenght is on it, he has made good progress so far, perhaps he can weigh in on this

Isn't he like 130lbs?

[The True Adonis]

This is why I hoped Adonis would enter & win this thing.  It would have been great to fly his ass down to Connelly's house, to set him straight on all his wacky notions on dieting.  I would have filmed the "debate" and posted it on youtube.  Oh well...

I would have loved to do it as well, but 2 things happened.

1. There was an original date set and I was able to make that deadline. When the deadline was changed, I was not able to do the new deadline due to the time-frame constraints as I was not able to take any pictures during the suggested week.

2. In hindsight you let a steroid user win when the rules did not allow for it or were ambiguous, so I am glad I was not able to make the deadline.  

[dustin]

You would be suprised to learn that bodybuilders do not require much more "nutrition" than Sedentary Individuals.


Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass
M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. Atkinson
Department of Physical Education and Pediatrics, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a 10-day period of normal protein intake followed by a 10-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein.kg-1.day-1. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

That's just one study though. I can appreciate the findings but at the same time, it does not say anything about special enhancement either. Supplements, AAS and other hormonal drugs greatly increase protein turnover.

[wavelength]

Isn't he like 130lbs?

In the last pic of my progress thread (also my avatar), I was around 150-153 lbs. My start weight was 165lbs. I have been bigger in the past but injuries held me back last year.

I never claimed to be huge, I just claimed that the cutting diet was the best I ever made for the purpose of changing body composition towards more muscle and less fat.

Lifetime natural BTW.

[chester_bbb]

Disgusted simply sets more rules in the hopes they won`t fail.  I would rather educate and have the person learn the myths and why the widespread demonization of food, food items and food groups prevail when they should have been relegated to nothing more than ficticious lore.
Disgusted keeps them stupid and regimental whereas I educate.  Disgusted also has not strayed from his self-prescribed regimentation even balking at Scientific Fact and Evidence choosing his "feelings" and "observations" over hard, unwavering data.

Let`s be honest, How difficult is it for people to count or estimate to 2000 once they know how many calories are in food items? Not very. 

The problem is, most people have been incorrectly taught about food and have let fear and demonization fuel their ignorance.  The ones here opposing me are victims as well, and they claim to know better but in fact clearly display a lack of knowlege and are thus influenced by the false bodybuilding Good food/Bad Food memes.

What if the person has eaten 2000 calories but is still starving?

[chester_bbb]

I think what is misunderstood is that most conventional bodybuilding methods actually match the Adonis principles, the only difference is that the principles say that less restrictions are necessary.

No bodybuilders want to add as much muscle as possible while staying lean. With the adonis principles people will look like concentration camp victims like you two.

[d0nny2600]

No bodybuilders want to add as much muscle as possible while staying lean. With the adonis principles people will look like concentration camp victims like you two.

lol