Author Topic: something back.  (Read 12362 times)

The Showstoppa

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2008, 02:17:10 PM »
The Human Fund.  Make the check payable to George Costanza.

TrueGrit

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2008, 02:21:12 PM »

Are you saying you feel inferior to animals (at times)?


We're all animals. You already presuppose a distinction that you aren't justified in making.
O

kiwiol

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2008, 02:26:59 PM »
We're all animals.

Not to me we are not. We are all organisms, but humans IMO shouldn't be categorised as animals. Plants are not animals and they are their own kingdom. Animals aren't primary producers, but they can move and hence have / are their own kingdom. Humans are a step above animals - not physically, but mentally. We have the faculty of thought that lets us think and shape the environment in ways that no other animal is even remotely capable of.

That puts us in a league of our own - we simply share the same biological traits that animals have, give or take depending on the context.

dr.chimps

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2008, 02:30:19 PM »
Neither do I. There is a terrible, erroneous, belief in some human beings that they are something markedly different and superior to other animals. At its worst, it is an excuse and justification for extreme and abhorrent cruelty.
Hmm. No, humans are just another branch on the tree of life (sorry, that's awful!) than animals. I suppose, in my time, I have found more dignity in 'animals' than I do people that it has become my only charity. Speaking for those that can't, etc. Look, TG, I tell people to find/choose a charity (one, any one) and donate - providing it has to be one you strongly believe in and one in which you're willing to make a commitment - you can't go wrong.  Simple.  :)

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2008, 02:32:37 PM »
Hmm. No, humans are just another branch on the tree of life (sorry, that's awful!) than animals. I suppose, in my time, I have found more dignity in 'animals' than I do people that it has become my only charity. Speaking for those that can't, etc. Look, TG, I tell people to find/choose a charity (one, any one) and donate - providing it has to be one you strongly believe in and one in which you're willing to make a commitment - you can't go wrong.  Simple.  :)

I am poverty striken and thus unable to donate... :-\
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dr.chimps

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2008, 02:35:56 PM »
I am poverty striken and thus unable to donate... :-\
Donate of yourself then, rags.  ;)

Master Blaster

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2008, 02:36:52 PM »
There should be a getbig Hall of Fame built. 

Bertil Fox

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2008, 02:37:38 PM »
Donate of yourself then, rags.  ;)

J'essais toujours.
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dr.chimps

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2008, 02:39:18 PM »
J'essais toujours.
Can't ask for more than that.

TrueGrit

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2008, 02:42:16 PM »
Humans are a step above animals - not physically, but mentally. We have the faculty of thought that lets us think and shape the environment in ways that no other animal is even remotely capable of.

That puts us in a league of our own - we simply share the same biological traits that animals have, give or take depending on the context.


 Well that's a very common argument. Many people say the same thing - often the poorest and least well educated will argue it the most vehemently ( not saying that about you.. btw). The fact is that to me it is an extremely simplistic, primitive and arrogant point of view.

There is simply nothing to suggest we are anything other than a highly evolved, intelligent animal. All these other notions of being something wildly different from, and superior to, other sentient beings stem from religious nonsense about being God's chosen 'project' or a totally overblown trumpeting of our faculty for reasoning.

 The human race really does need to be dethroned. This false assumption in our self-proclaimed superiority and 'uniqueness'  is used to justify unspeakable cruelty. One can make an argument for humans  being the most advanced/intelligent animal - albeit an extremely destructive one - but to claim that humans aren't animals..to me that's absurd and not a position I would relish trying to seriously justify.
O

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2008, 02:47:21 PM »
Can't ask for more than that.

Word/Mot. ;D
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kiwiol

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2008, 02:53:04 PM »
There is simply nothing to suggest we are anything other than a highly evolved, intelligent animal.

If you had said 'organism' instead of animal, you'd have nailed it. My argument has / had no religious overtones cause I'm not affiliated to any religion. I'm saying that while we have in common all the major biological traits with animals (which are closer to us genetically compared to other kingdoms like Plantae or Fungi), we are also in a whole league by ourselves based on our mental capacity.

The most highly evolved animals don't come ANYWHERE near us, when it comes to being able to think, reason and act. Biologically, we are animals but in our case, that isn't all there is to it. We are actually integrating and blending with our latest technologies and evolving into something very interesting.

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2008, 02:54:34 PM »
If you had said Organism instead of animal, you'd have nailed it. My argument has / had no religious overtones cause I'm not affiliated to any religion. I'm saying that while we have in common all the major biological traits with animals (which are closer to us genetically compared to other kingdoms like Plantae or Fungi), we are also in a whole league by ourselves based on our mental capacity.

The most highly evolved animals don't come ANYWHERE near us, when it comes to being able to think, reason and act. Biologically, we are animals but in our case, that isn't all there is to it. We are actually integrating and blending with our latest technologies and evolving into something very interesting.

I want to see Dr. Chimps in action here...
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spinnis

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2008, 02:57:24 PM »
I give away money to random people everyday thru poker :(

dr.chimps

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2008, 02:59:36 PM »
If you had said Organism instead of animal, you'd have nailed it. My argument has / had no religious overtones cause I'm not affiliated to any religion. I'm saying that while we have in common all the major biological traits with animals (which are closer to us genetically compared to other kingdoms like Plantae or Fungi), we are also in a whole league by ourselves based on our mental capacity.

The most highly evolved animals don't come ANYWHERE near us, when it comes to being able to think, reason and act. Biologically, we are animals but in our case, that isn't all there is to it. We are actually integrating and blending with our latest technologies and evolving into something very interesting.
Hmmm. Take away ready access to say, running water, or some other component Kiwi, and you'll see how evolved we are. Humans never cease to surprise me regarding how 'animalistic' we can become under certain conditions - war, famine, disaster, etc. - and nicely skewer our worldly pretensions to stewardship.  :-\

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2008, 03:03:34 PM »
Hmmm. Take away ready access to say, running water, or some other component Kiwi, and you'll see how evolved we are. Humans never cease to surprise me regarding how 'animalistic' we can become under certain conditions - war, famine, disaster, etc. - and nicely skewer our worldly pretensions to stewardship.  :-\

Bump for My Lai...

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kiwiol

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2008, 03:05:59 PM »
Hmmm. Take away ready access to say, running water, or some other component Kiwi, and you'll see how evolved we are. Humans never cease to surprise me regarding how 'animalistic' we can become under certain conditions - war, famine, disaster, etc. - and nicely skewer our worldly pretensions to stewardship.  :-\

My dear Dr Chimps, I never said we are immortal, invincible super beings that are capable of sustaining ourselves without needing the basic biological necessities that are food, water and such.

If you read my post, you'll notice I say that biologically, we are animals but that's not all there is to us / it. And we are also far from having perfected our emotions, living conditions, culture, environment etc. But that doesn't mean that we aren't above animals.

I don't get it - no one is going to argue that an elephant is superior to a human being when it comes to strength. But people always protest and call it arrogant when someone says humans are superior to animals, which we are because intellectually we are.

TrueGrit

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2008, 03:07:19 PM »


The most highly evolved animals don't come ANYWHERE near us, when it comes to being able to think, reason and act.




 I am not denying that we have an advanced faculty for reason that has allowed us to accomplish great - and terribly negative, destructive things - I just don't agree with this argument that we are in a 'league of our own' or something other than animals.
 
The fact we have been able to impose our environment on other animals still doesn't mean we are anything other than a highly evolved animal. It's really only your assertion that we are something 'other' than animals that I disagree with. 

 Again, even if we have the most advanced reasoning skills...I don't see why that means we are anything other than the animal with the most advanced reasoning skills? No justification for such an elevated view of ourselves. Even if we are so superior..I fail to see why it gives us the freedom within our personal morality to cause undue suffering and pain to other sentient beings.


O

TrueGrit

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2008, 03:10:32 PM »
.

I don't get it - no one is going to argue that an elephant is superior to a human being when it comes to strength. But people always protest and call it arrogant when someone says humans are superior to animals, which we are because intellectually we are.

Hang on Kiwi,

It's one thing to say we are superior to other animals and a totally different thing to say we aren't animals at all and something more special.
O

danielson

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2008, 03:10:52 PM »
My dear Dr Chimps, I never said we are immortal, invincible super beings that are capable of sustaining ourselves without needing the basic biological necessities that are food, water and such.

If you read my post, you'll notice I say that biologically, we are animals but that's not all there is to us / it. And we are also far from having perfected our emotions, living conditions, culture, environment etc. But that doesn't mean that we aren't above animals.

I don't get it - no one is going to argue that an elephant is superior to a human being when it comes to strength. But people always protest and call it arrogant when someone says humans are superior to animals, which we are because intellectually we are.

Speaking of rich fuckers, how much did you make with Enlist Kiwi? Did you ever send Rude that million dollars?
E

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2008, 03:10:59 PM »
My dear Dr Chimps, I never said we are immortal, invincible super beings that are capable of sustaining ourselves without needing the basic biological necessities that are food, water and such.

If you read my post, you'll notice I say that biologically, we are animals but that's not all there is to us / it. And we are also far from having perfected our emotions, living conditions, culture, environment etc. But that doesn't mean that we aren't above animals.

I don't get it - no one is going to argue that an elephant is superior to a human being when it comes to strength. But people always protest and call it arrogant when someone says humans are superior to animals, which we are because intellectually we are.

Bump for My Lai...the Doctor is right...take away the essentials and we are just beasts...
I hate the State.

kiwiol

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2008, 03:12:03 PM »
Even if we are so superior..I fail to see why it gives us the freedom within our personal morality to cause undue suffering and pain to other sentient beings.

Very true, but that's one very small part of a much bigger whole. For all the people that cause pain to animals for whatever reason, there are also the millions of those that adopt pets and treat them no different than a family member. The worst of us aren't and shouldn't be the indication of our level of worth as humans.

BTW, I just realised this is Jimmy's thread, so maybe we'll pick up this argument elsewhere - this issue pops up all the time in the usual cyclical fashion.

kiwiol

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2008, 03:13:15 PM »
Speaking of rich fuckers, how much did you make with Enlist Kiwi? Did you ever send Rude that million dollars?

Enlist is no more to be. And I'm working on it, to answer Q no 2

dr.chimps

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2008, 03:13:27 PM »
Bump for My Lai...
Right! Abu Ghraib, etc. Exactly why I prefer the animals around me. I sometimes chide (tut-tut!) my church-going friends by telling them if they want to communicate with/see God, just to sit on a park bench for a stretch and watch the animals as they go on with their day. It's all there right in front of you - not secreted in some edifice. Academics call it immanence.   :D

danielson

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Re: My time is short. Let's give something back.
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2008, 03:15:11 PM »
Enlist is no more to be. And I'm working on it, to answer Q no 2

What happened to it? Tough economy huh?
E