Making gains when you are Off: Bullshit ?

[Stavios]

I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.

Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?

I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.

example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because  I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month

I have been off for 3 months and a half now

[Emmortal]

At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually.  Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass.  If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.

[Stavios]

At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually.  Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass.  If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.

yeah that's what I also think.
I am happy I am still keeping my bodyweight up this time around tho.

last off-cycle I went from 225 to 207 in about 2 months, while getting fatter

[Emmortal]

I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your  body is used to.  With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.

[tolliscd]

Thats why you should NEVER come off

[Stavios]

I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your  body is used to.  With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.

Yeah, I notice people at the gym who have been at this for 15-20 years, keep their size much better when they go Off

[tstmaniac]

im in better shape now naturally then b4 i started using...the sauce has helped shape my body a lot better then it has ever been permenantly

[tstmaniac]

stavios you dont make natural gains?

[Stavios]

stavios you dont make natural gains?

nop, as soon as I get off I struggle to keep the weight on.

seems easier this time around, but I am sure as hell not making any gains

[dustin]

Homeostasis is a mean, dirty bitch.

[tstmaniac]

nop, as soon as I get off I struggle to keep the weight on.

seems easier this time around, but I am sure as hell not making any gains

do you ever take time off to train naturally? i usually do 1 or 2 cycles a year and train natural for the rest of the year...i make very slow constant gains naturally

[efanhowz]

stavios you been off for 3 1/2 months? its time to rejoin your brothers from the dark side!

[abc123]

At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually.  Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass.  If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.

Emmortal's statement is the bottom line unless you are a gentic freak.

I've said before that for me personally when off, I keep the most muscle when I eat right and do ZERO weight training for the first 4-6 weeks.  Or if I do want to train during PCT, I just keep using 20 IU Humalog preworkout with some Clen.  The combo is anabolic/anticatabolic.

Everyone is different. This may not work for 95% of the guys out there.  My theory it that if you are beyond your natural set point you will lose even more muscle if training when first off because your hormone levels are low for a while and you just tear down muscle that you can't rebuild.  I will say that this has no scientific basis.  It's just what I've learned about my body over the last 15 years.

[iron_dawg]

I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.

Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?

I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.

example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because  I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month

I have been off for 3 months and a half now

It is hard to do and me personally believe it is alot mental...I once thought as you do...but learned I have to work twice as hard as I do with out "help"

[Van_Bilderass]

I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.

Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?

It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.

...i make very slow constant gains naturally

I've never seen this IRL. You're saying gear gains are permanent for you; doesn't work like that.

[dustin]

It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.

Bingo. I was so confused by what everyone was saying on the internet, especially on bb.com... gaining 20lbs off orals, "pure muscle" and not losing any more than a lb or two during PCT? Surprisingly enough, none of those idiots ever post pictures.

When I talk to people in real life they say they lose a good amount of the gains. But after a while you start making more and more progress. You're basically swimming against the current. It'll take a while to get far, and often times you'll drift backwards a little bit. But the next time around it's easier to progress... and you'll make some good gains over time. Just never expect to retain everything you've gained from a cycle unless maybe it was a cutting cycle. But even then, expect to hold a little more adipose tissue and hold onto less muscle if you continue to diet down.

[jtsunami]

I agree, not only do you not make many natural gains past your mid 20's if you have been working out for 10 years, but that also within time, 6 months or more you will lose most muscle gained while on cycle.  The body just has its natural regulators in it that can't hold more than what it was created to unless you are on drugs.  The answer I believe to is to stay on all the time.

jt

[Luv2Hurt]

I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your  body is used to.  With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.

Observing people I know who compete I would say this is true also.

[busyB]

Yeah, we have natural "Set Points" that our body likes to be at. It hates trying to go beyond those points which is why we need more calories to grow and then add in AAS and we can bust past those points.

I remember as a wee little lad starting this game, I wanted to be 200 lbs. I was always lean and muscular from all the sports I played as a kid and thru High School. Was a bitch getting there naturally but once I did, I have never dipped below 200. Then once I started AAS a few years ago, even when I come off, never drop below 210 or so, just a new set point for me.

I guess I just repeated what E train was saying....

[littlechris]

if u compete, you are not supposed to go off, lol!!  of course youll lose alot!!  the body was not meant to be huge muscularly and lean at the same time.  rather your off time should consist of 200 mg of test per week,  and when you decideto go on,then add in your orals, up your test and add your other injectables for the 10-12 weeks needed.  when your done with the show, go back to 200 mgs of test per week.  no way around it.  youll cotinue to gain/maintain.

-c

[tstmaniac]

It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.

I've never seen this IRL. You're saying gear gains are permanent for you; doesn't work like that.

hey dude dont talk to me like im some gimmick bullshit account...im telling you how the shit goes for me.. he was saying makin natural gains are bs...i make slow natural gains because i am off most of the year...thats what i was saying...and yes i do keep a little bit from each cycle...juice has def shaped my muscles permenantly..

[Van_Bilderass]

hey dude dont talk to me like im some gimmick bullshit account...im telling you how the shit goes for me.. he was saying makin natural gains are bs...i make slow natural gains because i am off most of the year...thats what i was saying...and yes i do keep a little bit from each cycle...juice has def shaped my muscles permenantly..

Wasn't trying to diss you, sorry. The way you worded it sounded like you made permanent gains, that you kept everything and then you continued gaining on top of that. I do think steroids can push your natural set-point forward a little bit but if gains were permanent lots of guys would just come off permanently after a while.

[tstmaniac]

my bad too van...i thought u were dissing me like i was a gimmick account or something...i can see how you misunderstood my post..noo worries

[DIVISION]

I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.

Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?

I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.

example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because  I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month

I have been off for 3 months and a half now

If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.

As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....

The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.



DIV

[Luv2Hurt]

If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.

As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....

The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.



DIV

Yes and the cyclic nature of life itself makes that hard to do for long periods, "what goes up must come down."   Unless one leads a Spartan life and is a soilder the momentum can be difficult to maintain.