Most people can not conceive how good a natural can get because they see very few of them walking around. There's only a handful of guys that are so dedicated that have trained hard for 10 years straight, have consistenly eaten correctly, taken the proper supplements, and of course have good genetics as well. It's very rare. So if someone does all this, shows up looking good, no one believes they are natural. Most young guys train for a couple of years, and then hop on the juice. To this day, I still have people think I'm juiced. They don't realize I've been training consistently for almost 30 years straight.