I have a serious concern??? Please Help!!!

[Mr. Jingles]

I already told you what to run up top. Read up on aromasin (Ive posted studies on the board) and what it can do for you as far as restoring natural test. HCG will only be more suppressive at this point. Either clomid/nolvadex or both, and 25mg aromasin ed.

I've never used Aromasin I will call my guy and get Nolv. and Aromasin I have clomid in the house. How much time am I looking at before I will be ok? and also be able to go back on? I was hoping to start in Feb. if thats possible.

[4thAD]

It all depends on your body brotha. Running a new PCT will def help get your body on track, but time off the sauce is what your body really needs. Have you ever thought of just getting on and staying on TRT? Myself and lots of other guys on the board are on TRT and its a good healthy thing.

[Mr. Jingles]

What is TRT?

[4thAD]

Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[rawdawg]

get some test and be done with it. theres 2 solutions do it or dont do it but dont complain,just do it you be happy just remember those days 

[Vet]

I'm betting he's shut himself down permenantly and is looking at a lifetime of HRT if he wants to be "normal". 

[4thAD]

I'm betting he's shut himself down permenantly and is looking at a lifetime of HRT if he wants to be "normal". 

Exactly why HCG should be run during the cycle, instead of just during PCT. Prevention is what its all about.

[benz]

you guys are brutal, give him some hope 

[Arnold jr]

Arnold,

Should I be doing HCG and clomid? How much time? and yes I was hoping to compete this summer if possible.....

Is this a permanent problem, I have an amazing 25 yr old fiancee.... I need my sex drive back..

It depends.

If you're off everything now and you're going to get back on in the near future, in your case you simply need to stay on a low dose of test...200-250mg/wk.

If you're off and going to stay off for a long time, then yes you might need to run a long strong PCT. But after that, in the end many times that's not enough. If this is the case time is what will heal it if anything. However, and I don't say this to put you down and out, at your age you may be looking at HRT for the rest of your life...depends on the damage.

My advice, I'd go with the HRT now, then run your cycle for your contest, after that fun a very strong PCT. Once that's said and done, stay off everything for at least 6-8 months...it could even take a full year to get back to normal.

[4thAD]

It depends.

If you're off everything now and you're going to get back on in the near future, in your case you simply need to stay on a low dose of test...200-250mg/wk.

If you're off and going to stay off for a long time, then yes you might need to run a long strong PCT. But after that, in the end many times that's not enough. If this is the case time is what will heal it if anything. However, and I don't say this to put you down and out, at your age you may be looking at HRT for the rest of your life...depends on the damage.

My advice, I'd go with the HRT now, then run your cycle for your contest, after that fun a very strong PCT. Once that's said and done, stay off everything for at least 6-8 months...it could even take a full year to get back to normal.

I agree with this. Keep in mind that running TRT is not a bad thing. Its legal gear, and keeps you feeling healthy and young.

[Mr. Jingles]

I already told you what to run up top. Read up on aromasin (Ive posted studies on the board) and what it can do for you as far as restoring natural test. HCG will only be more suppressive at this point. Either clomid/nolvadex or both, and 25mg aromasin ed.

HRT or what you suggested first 4thAD? I liked this alot but if the HRT is a better way, I'm down...... I'd really like to get my shit straight before hitting the sauce again........

I may have fucked myself permanmently, if you want to play in the big leagues better be able to hang tough. That's why I've been a member here for awhile. Most guys here play hard ball. My hats off to all of you.....

Peace and Thank you all very much

Mr. Bo Jangles.......

[Vet]

you guys are brutal, give him some hope 

I'm not trying to be mean. This is the reality of it.

[abc123]

I'm not trying to be mean. This is the reality of it.

Vet, how common do you think this is?  If it's a lack of LH then HCG during cycle won't address the issue, correct?

Would there be any benefit to running some Clomid during cycle to stimulate LH and keep things working?

[tstmaniac]

Vet, how common do you think this is?  If it's a lack of LH then HCG during cycle won't address the issue, correct?

Would there be any benefit to running some Clomid during cycle to stimulate LH and keep things working?

your better off running aromasin during cycle

[D-bol]

Trust me Fellas,
This is a very frustrating issue. Truly a very bad dream!!



Last cycle:
started in Feb 08, Trend 75 mg. eod 1+16 weeks
                               Test 250 mg. twice a week 1+16 wks
I took arimedic & HCG post cycle for 3 weeks
Second cycle:
Mestronon 750 mg. once a wk. 1+8 weeks
Wintrol 50 mg. eod 4+8 weeks
Arimedic and HCG for 3 weeks at the end

my knowledge is obviously limited here, but tell me guys, is the second cycle a normal stack? i dunno, but this second cycle combo looks really weird to me...

[4thAD]

my knowledge is obviously limited here, but tell me guys, is the second cycle a normal stack? i dunno, but this second cycle combo looks really weird to me...

simple answer "NO"

[Vet]

Vet, how common do you think this is?  If it's a lack of LH then HCG during cycle won't address the issue, correct?

Would there be any benefit to running some Clomid during cycle to stimulate LH and keep things working?

I think you have to look at things two fold.  First off, hypogonadism is becoming more and more common in men over the age of 30.   There are so many problems--like Type II diabetes as an example that are directly linked to hypogonadism.     Personally, I think every guy needs to get their testosterone levels checked if they are 35 or older.   Age is a huge factor.


Second, from conversations I've had with my endocrinologist the HPTA in humans actually seems pretty fragile.   Permenant shutdown is recognized in the veterinary world---for example in implanted cattle, but those animals almost always end up as food, so its not a problem. 

Some guys can recover from shutdown from a cycle without a problem, but others, 8 weeks is enough to permenantly shut down.  Its not understood why this happens, it just does.  Its also hard to get a true statistical analyiss of cases though because many people who do one cycle with legitimate drugs are likely not have their hormone levels evaluated pre or post cycle and they are considered likely to do another cycle.  What really happens in thier body probably does unrecognized and unreported. 

[D-bol]

scary shit

[tstmaniac]

I think you have to look at things two fold.  First off, hypogonadism is becoming more and more common in men over the age of 30.   There are so many problems--like Type II diabetes as an example that are directly linked to hypogonadism.     Personally, I think every guy needs to get their testosterone levels checked if they are 35 or older.   Age is a huge factor.


Second, from conversations I've had with my endocrinologist the HPTA in humans actually seems pretty fragile.   Permenant shutdown is recognized in the veterinary world---for example in implanted cattle, but those animals almost always end up as food, so its not a problem. 

Some guys can recover from shutdown from a cycle without a problem, but others, 8 weeks is enough to permenantly shut down.  Its not understood why this happens, it just does.  Its also hard to get a true statistical analyiss of cases though because many people who do one cycle with legitimate drugs are likely not have their hormone levels evaluated pre or post cycle and they are considered likely to do another cycle.  What really happens in thier body probably does unrecognized and unreported. 

do you think that each cycle you do will damage your hpta function even more? even if you do proper pct and cycle once or twice a year

[Luv2Hurt]

I think you have to look at things two fold.  First off, hypogonadism is becoming more and more common in men over the age of 30.   There are so many problems--like Type II diabetes as an example that are directly linked to hypogonadism.     Personally, I think every guy needs to get their testosterone levels checked if they are 35 or older.   Age is a huge factor.


Second, from conversations I've had with my endocrinologist the HPTA in humans actually seems pretty fragile.   Permenant shutdown is recognized in the veterinary world---for example in implanted cattle, but those animals almost always end up as food, so its not a problem. 

Some guys can recover from shutdown from a cycle without a problem, but others, 8 weeks is enough to permenantly shut down.  Its not understood why this happens, it just does.  Its also hard to get a true statistical analyiss of cases though because many people who do one cycle with legitimate drugs are likely not have their hormone levels evaluated pre or post cycle and they are considered likely to do another cycle.  What really happens in thier body probably does unrecognized and unreported. 

Hard to say if this is the case.  Chemical castration is real though i guess.  Logic would say once the drugs leave and some time passes the body will begin to function normally again.  The receptors that sense hormonal stimulis will begin to pick up on the 0 test situation and start sending orders to the testes for more test production.

But its like waking a machine thats been idle for a long time, it may sputter and stumble for a while while warming up again to operating temps.  Make sure you dont flood it or it wont start.

[local hero]

i dont know if ive read this wrong,,, but your 5'11" at 200lbs...... and thats not ripped,,, if i were u id ditch your contest plans and try and get healthy, your more than likely goin to fuck your self up for a low placing, its realy not worth it

[Vet]

do you think that each cycle you do will damage your hpta function even more? even if you do proper pct and cycle once or twice a year

I think theres too much variation from person to person for it to be that easy of an answer.  Some people will restart wtihout a problem.  Others may never restart. Some won't restart, but they'll coast at a level that is subphysiogical, but is high enough that they can get by, and not know they've got a problem until they can't get their woman pregnant or they finally sputter out and crash and burn 10 years down the road.  That or they just go back on a cycle and don't find out because they mask it.     


When I was discussing this with my doctor, he cited a couple of cases of his own patients who were in their early 30's who'd never done any anabolic steroids, but who had all been athletes in college and who had all taken large doses of prohormones (within the label constraints)---substances that have since been removed from the market by the FDA.  Every one of those males had virtually no LH, no testosterone and wouldn't respond to what was tried for "restarting" the system.   

That to me is absolutey scary as shit.   

[4thAD]

HRT or what you suggested first 4thAD? I liked this alot but if the HRT is a better way, I'm down...... I'd really like to get my shit straight before hitting the sauce again........

I may have fucked myself permanmently, if you want to play in the big leagues better be able to hang tough. That's why I've been a member here for awhile. Most guys here play hard ball. My hats off to all of you.....

Peace and Thank you all very much

Mr. Bo Jangles.......

I suggest TRT bro. You will more than likely feel great, and no Dr. in his right mind will turn you down with levels that low. Try your personal physician first, and then an endo doc. If that does not work PM me. The reason I say try your own docs first is try to get your insurance to pay for the test. You should be able to get injectable test no problem.

[abc123]

do you think that each cycle you do will damage your hpta function even more? even if you do proper pct and cycle once or twice a year

I personally think it will, but I'm not a doctor or expert.  I can only speak from personal experience.

IMO you should use HCG during cycle AND do proper PCT.  If you don't use HCG during cycle you WILL kill some Lydig cells, it's just a quesiton of how many you kill each cycle...and that depends on your body. 

In the '90s I did at least two 12 week cycles per year.  They were always very light, usually Test only at less than 500 mg per week.  Sometimes they were dbol only or Deca only. 

I'm a hyper responder, so that's all the Test I need to put on 15 lbs of muscle, but even 200 mg of Test EW shuts me down very hard and quick.

Unfortunatley, I never did PCT because I didn't know any better.  Regardless, my nuts always came back within a month or so.

When my wife and I were trying to get pregnant about five years ago, we had fertilty tests done.  Luckily, I didn't have any issues and in fact my sperm count was very high.  We now have three kids.  That's the good news.

But, then about two years ago I went into a pretty bad depression.  I made my doctor test my hormone levels.  My Test level was in the low 200's.  I have no doubt it's due to steroids and a lack of proper PCT.

I'm now on HRT and feel better than ever.  I just feel very very lucky to have kids.

In retrospect, my nuts never came back 100%.  I didn't notice because it happened gradually - a little more with each cycle as I killed Lydig cells.  They are now probably 80% of their original size.  I'm the only one who would notice, but I'm sure a lack of proper PCT played a large role.

With PCT you will probably be OK, but why chance it?  Use some HCG during cycle as well.  I wish I had.  What if you can't have kids?

[Vet]

I personally think it will, but I'm not a doctor or expert.  I can only speak from personal experience.

IMO you should use HCG during cycle AND do proper PCT.  If you don't use HCG during cycle you WILL kill some Lydig cells, it's just a quesiton of how many you kill each cycle...and that depends on your body. 

In the '90s I did at least two 12 week cycles per year.  They were always very light, usually Test only at less than 500 mg per week.  Sometimes they were dbol only or Deca only. 

I'm a hyper responder, so that's all the Test I need to put on 15 lbs of muscle, but even 200 mg of Test EW shuts me down very hard and quick.

Unfortunatley, I never did PCT because I didn't know any better.  Regardless, my nuts always came back within a month or so.

When my wife and I were trying to get pregnant about five years ago, we had fertilty tests done.  Luckily, I didn't have any issues and in fact my sperm count was very high.  We now have three kids.  That's the good news.

But, then about two years ago I went into a pretty bad depression.  I made my doctor test my hormone levels.  My Test level was in the low 200's.  I have no doubt it's due to steroids and a lack of proper PCT.

I'm now on HRT and feel better than ever.  I just feel very very lucky to have kids.

In retrospect, my nuts never came back 100%.  I didn't notice because it happened gradually - a little more with each cycle as I killed Lydig cells.  They are now probably 80% of their original size.  I'm the only one who would notice, but I'm sure a lack of proper PCT played a large role.

With PCT you will probably be OK, but why chance it?  Use some HCG during cycle as well.  I wish I had.  What if you can't have kids?

Yup, like I said, you come back enough to get by, but then crash and burn years down the road.   Its not good.