Androgens VS Anabolics

[Van_Bilderass]

I think it can be a good idea for a competitor to go off completely every once in a while. Especially if the cycles are heavy. It's hard to say when you should do this but those who stay on for years and years often end up with a tired, mushy, chemical look. Sometimes a layer of water that they didn't have before. The "Paluboism" effect ties into this also. This can't be pinned down on just "receptor downgrade" or whatever.

[Van_Bilderass]

What do you think about the 70/30 anabolic to androgenic ratio you read about?

Which steroids go into which group?

Reason I ask is because I think drugs commonly thought of as strong androgens, such as Anadrol, are pretty weak in their androgenic effects. IMO and IME.

[hairyB07]

Hi disgusted!
Great post and it truley did deserve its own thread.

My question with the 70/30, anabolic to androgenic ratio, would this be the same if someone were to use tren and test together?
Now i know you are agianst the use of trenbolone unless you are taking competition quite seriously, but i guess this is just a hypothetical.

I ask this of the tren compound as im not too sure if it would fit into the 70/30 anabolic to androgenic ratio as it is androgenic also.
Could it replace the anabolic ratio of 70?
Or it wont work because they are both androgenic?

Not sure if i have explained this right, but thanks for giving it a go anyway.

[Alex23]

Actually they are quite rare. Out of the hundreds of guys that I see per year I have only seen one bad one ever. Also, just because an area swells up and gets red doesn't mean that it is an abscess.. A lot of UG drugs have a high level of BA and BB in them and they can be quite irritating to the skin. That on top of the high test mg per ml which is stupid, will cause that also. 

 

I thought so... never heard of anyone having to "drain" anything that I know of. I would say behavior is more likely to cause it than actual tainted products. I've heard of powder kitchen cookers going at it for years and not even get sore after running short esters for months at a time...

Also seems like water is more prone than oils.

Why is the benzyl benzoate / benzyl alcohol content so high in UG? Could it cause health issues in the long run? I've heard they can cause kidney "duress" which is what I attributed tren acetate (made from finaplix) mainly to....

[Van_Bilderass]

Hi disgusted!
Great post and it truley did deserve its own thread.

My question with the 70/30, anabolic to androgenic ratio, would this be the same if someone were to use tren and test together?
Now i know you are agianst the use of trenbolone unless you are taking competition quite seriously, but i guess this is just a hypothetical.

I ask this of the tren compound as im not too sure if it would fit into the 70/30 anabolic to androgenic ratio as it is androgenic also.
Could it replace the anabolic ratio of 70?
Or it wont work because they are both androgenic?

Not sure if i have explained this right, but thanks for giving it a go anyway.

It's a good question because I don't know how one would device a "70/30" stack. Most probably mean something like 700mg Primo and 300mg Test. But replace the test with 300mg Tren and it's not the same. Or replace the Primo with Winstrol and it's not quite the same either - as far as androgenic or anabolic effects.

[hairyB07]

It's a good question because I don't know how one would device a "70/30" stack. Most probably mean something like 700mg Primo and 300mg Test. But replace the test with 300mg Tren and it's not the same. Or replace the Primo with Winstrol and it's not quite the same either - as far as androgenic or anabolic effects.

Sort of what i am asking, yeah.

Would the effects be the same with an androgenic like tren at a ratio of 70 and a testosterone at a ratio of 30 or does it HAVE TO be an anabolic to androgenic ratio?

[Disgusted]

If you are around the 70/30 ratio and want to use tren then there is really no reason to worry about it. Just throw in the tren come precontest or offseason time. Tren is it's own odd little drug.

[BIG DUB]

Thanks for the reply, i was thinking it would be a better way to set your cycle and not have all the estrogen side effects such as bloat and having to eat anti-e's for the length of your cycle. I was thinking along these lines when you said increase the dose as you grow bigger with each cycle;

1g total = 300mg test + 700mg anabolic; deca or eq  or primo

1.25g total = 375mg test + 875mg anablics split between deca and eq or eq and primo or deca and primo

1.5g total = 450mg test + 1050mg anabolics split same as above

1.75g total = 525mg test + 1225mg anabolics split same as..

2g total = 600mg test + 1400mg anabolics split..

etc..

How does this set up look?

[2L2Q]

disgusted,in your opinion what do u recommend me to do,i just turned 22 and i want to go all the way since 17,i took gear 5 weeks at 18(to know what it is for the future,it was an 8 week cycle but i saw good results  and stopped ),and from 18 to 22 i have been "natural"(cos i don't think i am natural cause i took juice 5 weeks),now i think i have a solid foundation and i am ready to start with the gear. so my question is if u think that i should cycle here ,rest,cycle rest..../ or keep on the juice without taking time off(wich imo i don't think is the right way,maybe i am wrong).  btw if i have to rest between cycles how long should be  that time off in between evry cycle ??

thanks

[Disgusted]

Thanks for the reply, i was thinking it would be a better way to set your cycle and not have all the estrogen side effects such as bloat and having to eat anti-e's for the length of your cycle. I was thinking along these lines when you said increase the dose as you grow bigger with each cycle;

1g total = 300mg test + 700mg anabolic; deca or eq  or primo

1.25g total = 375mg test + 875mg anablics split between deca and eq or eq and primo or deca and primo

1.5g total = 450mg test + 1050mg anabolics split same as above

1.75g total = 525mg test + 1225mg anabolics split same as..

2g total = 600mg test + 1400mg anabolics split..

etc..

How does this set up look?

That set up looks good although you do not have to increase your test proportionately with the anabolics, not saying that it;s wrong just another way of doing it.

[Disgusted]

disgusted,in your opinion what do u recommend me to do,i just turned 22 and i want to go all the way since 17,i took gear 5 weeks at 18(to know what it is for the future,it was an 8 week cycle but i saw good results  and stopped ),and from 18 to 22 i have been "natural"(cos i don't think i am natural cause i took juice 5 weeks),now i think i have a solid foundation and i am ready to start with the gear. so my question is if u think that i should cycle here ,rest,cycle rest..../ or keep on the juice without taking time off(wich imo i don't think is the right way,maybe i am wrong).  btw if i have to rest between cycles how long should be  that time off in between evry cycle ??

thanks

Sorry, but I can not give you advice on whether you should take steroids or not. I can tell you that there is no right or wrong way of doing things.   If it were me I would cycle 8 weeks on and take maybe 3 to 4 weeks off. Another thing that you gotta ask yourself is what are your goals? Do you compete? Do you think that you have the genetics to possibly turn pro or do very well a the amateur level? I know guys who do it both ways but in the long term all of them take breaks and rest for a while. Hope this helps.

[oldtimer1]

It's amusing that you guys are taking advice of what to put into a syringe from guys that live in a room at their parents house and deliver pizza for a living.

Has any of these guys had 15 credits of chemistry courses much less a PHD in pharmacology?  This is why this sport will never get any respect.  It's a sport based on drug use.  No drugs equals no sport.  Let me tell you when the public sees a juiced bodybuilder they laugh.  Only insecure young men who praise these guys and other ignorant people give them the ego they walk around with. 

Train without drugs and have a decent build much of your life.  A drug user only looks good on drugs.  Off drugs they look like crap.  Where in sport does anyone resemble the drug bloat these guys walk around with?  It's all cosmetic.  I would rather be built like a running back, sprinter, olympic wrestler or olympic weightlifter before a drug experiment.

 Most drug users are only to happy to give out training advice but deep down inside they know if they were off drugs for 6 months they wouldn't dare open their mouth because their body would revert to garbage.

[Stavios]

It's amusing that you guys are taking advice of what to put into a syringe from guys that live in a room at their parents house and deliver pizza for a living.

Has any of these guys had 15 credits of chemistry courses much less a PHD in pharmacology?  This is why this sport will never get any respect.  It's a sport based on drug use.  No drugs equals no sport.  Let me tell you when the public sees a juiced bodybuilder they laugh.  Only insecure young men who praise these guys and other ignorant people give them the ego they walk around with. 

Train without drugs and have a decent build much of your life.  A drug user only looks good on drugs.  Off drugs they look like crap.  Where in sport does anyone resemble the drug bloat these guys walk around with?  It's all cosmetic.  I would rather be built like a running back, sprinter, olympic wrestler or olympic weightlifter before a drug experiment.

 Most drug users are only to happy to give out training advice but deep down inside they know if they were off drugs for 6 months they wouldn't dare open their mouth because their body would revert to garbage.

Disgusted is a well known nutritionist, not some random dude.

About going OFF, I agree with that but who cares. If we wanted to be sprinters, we would be. but right now our goal is to be a good bodybuilder so to each his own

[Disgusted]

Oldguy makes a couple of decent points, but I will respond in length when I get back from Starbucks. 

[tbombz]

It's amusing that you guys are taking advice of what to put into a syringe from guys that live in a room at their parents house and deliver pizza for a living.

Has any of these guys had 15 credits of chemistry courses much less a PHD in pharmacology?  This is why this sport will never get any respect.  It's a sport based on drug use.  No drugs equals no sport.  Let me tell you when the public sees a juiced bodybuilder they laugh.  Only insecure young men who praise these guys and other ignorant people give them the ego they walk around with. 

Train without drugs and have a decent build much of your life.  A drug user only looks good on drugs.  Off drugs they look like crap.  Where in sport does anyone resemble the drug bloat these guys walk around with?  It's all cosmetic.  I would rather be built like a running back, sprinter, olympic wrestler or olympic weightlifter before a drug experiment.

 Most drug users are only to happy to give out training advice but deep down inside they know if they were off drugs for 6 months they wouldn't dare open their mouth because their body would revert to garbage.

you eat food everyday do you have a degree in nutrition ? 

[Disgusted]

It's amusing that you guys are taking advice of what to put into a syringe from guys that live in a room at their parents house and deliver pizza for a living.

Has any of these guys had 15 credits of chemistry courses much less a PHD in pharmacology?  This is why this sport will never get any respect. I didn't start lifting weights to get respect. That is usually earned by how you treat other people.  It's a sport based on drug use.  No drugs equals no sport. As well as most sports  Let me tell you when the public sees a juiced bodybuilder they laugh. Actually they find them disgusting. Just because they are not used to seeing guys like Ronnie doesn't mean that they would think Frank Zane was any less disgusting. Only insecure young men who praise these guys and other ignorant people give them the ego they walk around with.  That's just your opinion

Train without drugs and have a decent build much of your life.  A drug user only looks good on drugs.  Off drugs they look like crap. I know a lot of guys who came off drugs and still look great. All has to do with diet and training  Where in sport does anyone resemble the drug bloat these guys walk around with?  It's all cosmetic. It's all cosmetic drugs or no drugs I would rather be built like a running back, sprinter, olympic wrestler or olympic weightlifter before a drug experiment. Good for you.

 Most drug users are only to happy to give out training advice but deep down inside they know if they were off drugs for 6 months they wouldn't dare open their mouth because their body would revert to garbage. Just another opinion, but this time you sound angry. Maybe you have too much natural test. 

[QuakerOats]

very good points Jim.

[Figo]

It's amusing that you guys are taking advice of what to put into a syringe from guys that live in a room at their parents house and deliver pizza for a living.

Has any of these guys had 15 credits of chemistry courses much less a PHD in pharmacology?  This is why this sport will never get any respect.  It's a sport based on drug use.  No drugs equals no sport.  Let me tell you when the public sees a juiced bodybuilder they laugh.  Only insecure young men who praise these guys and other ignorant people give them the ego they walk around with. 

Train without drugs and have a decent build much of your life.  A drug user only looks good on drugs.  Off drugs they look like crap.  Where in sport does anyone resemble the drug bloat these guys walk around with?  It's all cosmetic.  I would rather be built like a running back, sprinter, olympic wrestler or olympic weightlifter before a drug experiment.

 Most drug users are only to happy to give out training advice but deep down inside they know if they were off drugs for 6 months they wouldn't dare open their mouth because their body would revert to garbage.

oldtimer1,

When did you start training, what were your motivations, who was your role model/idol/bber of the day or past you looked up to?

[hairyB07]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but what i want to ask doesn't really need a thread of it's own seeing as it has got to do with the conversation in here.

I was just wondering what exactly was Disgusted's theory behind having a 70% Anabolic ratio to a 30% androgen while cycling?
Has he explained in depth the theory behind it?