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Author Topic: ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER vs. SERGIO OLIVA: Who was the best?  (Read 80391 times)
GoneAway
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« on: December 25, 2008, 08:41:34 PM »

Between these two multi-Olympians, who was the better bodybuilder when it's all said and done?


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johnny1
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2008, 11:29:24 PM »

Wondering when this subject would come up Grin....Goneawy when you say better Bodybuilder are you asking who had the Best Built Body or who was a Better BBer in terms of overall package presentation, influence, popularity etc?
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GoneAway
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 12:20:52 AM »

Wondering when this subject would come up Grin....Goneawy when you say better Bodybuilder are you asking who had the Best Built Body or who was a Better BBer in terms of overall package presentation, influence, popularity etc?

Best physique only.


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johnny1
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 12:40:39 AM »

Best physique in my view in terms of structure, balance between upper-body and lower body etc has to be Sergio, However in 1973 or 1974 Arnold brought a package and a new standard never seen before, and I'm not 100% percent convinced Sergio even in his 1972 shape could of beaten Arnold in 73 or 74...While it is generally accepted Sergio's best shape was @ the 1972 Olympia or @ w/s park in London, i believe this package Sergio presented in Japan @ a guess appearance was his best and would be his best chance onstage against Arnold under lights in 73 or 74 ( given the natural lighting outside in japan etc...) photo's C/O Robert Forbes.


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johnny1
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 12:46:14 AM »

The unbealivable Oliva in Japan...


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johnny1
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 12:58:29 AM »

W/S Park London 1972 Smiley


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johnny1
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2008, 01:00:48 AM »

................ Wink


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johnny1
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2008, 01:07:46 AM »

1972 Olympia


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johnny1
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2008, 01:13:36 AM »

In 1974 Arnold was Massive and cut...


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johnny1
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2008, 01:20:11 AM »

 2 BB legends Back in the 1960s when Sergio was still King and BBers knew how to dress in public Smiley Smiley Smiley


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johnny1
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2008, 01:43:09 AM »

Couple more from Japan  Smiley


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johnny1
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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2008, 02:17:58 AM »

 1973-1974 Arnold had set new heights for all others to chase...
 1973 Sergio was knocking on the door again...


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GoneAway
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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2008, 07:02:52 AM »

Some great shots of Sergio there. That kneeling most muscular in Japan... wow!

Best physique in my view in terms of structure, balance between upper-body and lower body etc has to be Sergio, However in 1973 or 1974 Arnold brought a package and a new standard never seen before, and I'm not 100% percent convinced Sergio even in his 1972 shape could of beaten Arnold in 73 or 74...While it is generally accepted Sergio's best shape was @ the 1972 Olympia or @ w/s park in London, i believe this package Sergio presented in Japan @ a guess appearance was his best and would be his best chance onstage against Arnold under lights in 73 or 74 ( given the natural lighting outside in japan etc...) photo's C/O Robert Forbes.

Yes, Sergio is almost unparalleled in terms of upper-lower body proportion. He simply has full, thick muscles everywhere. Arnold fluctuated a little in terms of upper-lower proportion, but most of the time it was alright.

One thing Sergio often lacked was detail, especially compared to Arnold. He has the size in spades and was a decent poser, but part of Arnold's victories over him was based on superior detail. This is fairly minute in the scheme of things, but that's just how good these two were, that every little bit counts.

I would say Sergio's 1973 Mr. International condition would have been as good, if not better than the 1972 Olympia, given Sergio still had a few weeks or so to dial in further. Would have been great to see these two square off one more time.


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GoneAway
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2008, 07:36:25 AM »

It just doesn't get much better than this. Taken shortly after his first Mr. Olympia victory, whilst touring in England.


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Figo
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 08:23:19 AM »

Great pics.

Sergio had a look of raw power, Arnold was more polished.

Sergio was complete and massive all over, Arnold lacked lower body mass, but had great flow and shape.

Both fantastic, comes down to subjective personal preference. Maybe question should be: " Who'd you rather emulate, Arnold or Sergio?"
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johnny1
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 05:40:38 PM »

It just doesn't get much better than this. Taken shortly after his first Mr. Olympia victory, whilst touring in England.
Your correct about Arnold who more consistently Had Superior detail and conditioning than Sergio, Arnold it was clear left nothing to chance,checking out the venues before hand for lighting etc, physique, presentation, posing, charisma, and having the right sort of friends in high places never did him any harm ether, Arnold was and clearly is still a very smart man.
 
The below pictures show how Impressive Sergio could look when he ACTUALLY brought the full package together.


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pumpster
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 05:47:12 PM »

Arnold it was clear left nothing to chance,checking out the venues before hand for lighting etc, physique, presentation, posing, charisma, and having the right sort of friends in high places never did him any harm ether, Arnold was and clearly is still a very smart man.

Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.

He had Weider willing to cede him 1st place in the Olympia whenever it was close, and was motivated into his best shape by the threat of Sergio actually.

None of his victories had much to do with him being a "very smart man" as you say.
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johnny1
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »

................ Smiley

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johnny1
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 06:06:30 PM »

Epic Arnold ball-wash. It's easy to claim all these things after the fact, reality is he wasn't totally ready in '72 and wasn't willing to come out of the audience at the International either.

He had Weider willing to cede him 1st place in the Olympia whenever it was close, and was motivated into his best shape by the threat of Sergio actually.

None of his victories had much to do with him being a "very smart man" as you say.
Are you suggesting Sergio came into contests against Arnold just as prepared as Arnold?..you talk alot about politics in yr posts witch is yr call...could it actually be the bodybuilder who's in question that has to take responsibility for the outcome of contest result? as in coming into the contest in Proper condition, tan, oil, checking out the best lighting etc..etc....are you also suggesting Arnold's actions had nothing to do with him being a smart man?... Huh
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pumpster
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2008, 06:23:26 PM »

Are you suggesting Sergio came into contests against Arnold just as prepared as Arnold?..


There wasn't that much difference dude, which is why the rivalry was so great. The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s. Not much to do with Arnold's "intellect" actually, just as most of Arnold's rhetoric about "psyching out opponents" wasn't true but sounds great and is believed by many to this day.
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johnny1
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2008, 06:37:37 PM »

Yip i hear you there, well the part about Joe Weider...interestedly enough while on the subject, the length's that ah...well the powers that be went though @ the time against Sergio were on Full Display in this blantent propaganda, touched-up picture of Sergio's calves as PROOF of what happens when you don't follow the "WEIDER system" as opposed to the bloke on the right who does Follow the "Weider system".. Huh Huh Huh


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pumpster
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2008, 06:40:38 PM »

Sergio really killed Schwarzie from the back..


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GoneAway
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2008, 07:41:44 PM »

Yip i hear you there, well the part about Joe Weider...interestedly enough while on the subject, the length's that ah...well the powers that be went though @ the time against Sergio were on Full Display in this blantent propaganda, touched-up picture of Sergio's calves as PROOF of what happens when you don't follow the "WEIDER system" as opposed to the bloke on the right who does Follow the "Weider system".. Huh Huh Huh

Are you sure Sergio's calves are touched up in that picture? They do look small, but his calves usually looked small from behind.

The rivalry was killed by Joe Weider, not by fair competition all through the early-mid 70s.

Both the 1970 and 1972 Mr. Olympia could have gone either way. The 1970 AAU Mr. World wasn't a Weider contest. Sergio is as much responsible by breaking the rules not once, but twice. Sergio was even preparing for the Mr. Olympia in '73 and there would be no justifyable reason why he wouldn't be allowed to compete, if he hadn't broken the rules a year earlier by competing in the WBBG Mr. Galaxy. The timing for his suspension, on the day of his win at the Mr. International, is odd, but rules are rules.

Back to deciding who had the better physique... Arnold or Sergio?


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johnny1
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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2008, 08:29:10 PM »

Are you sure Sergio's calves are touched up in that picture? They do look small, but his calves usually looked small from behind.

Both the 1970 and 1972 Mr. Olympia could have gone either way. The 1970 AAU Mr. World wasn't a Weider contest. Sergio is as much responsible by breaking the rules not once, but twice. Sergio was even preparing for the Mr. Olympia in '73 and there would be no justifyable reason why he wouldn't be allowed to compete, if he hadn't broken the rules a year earlier by competing in the WBBG Mr. Galaxy. The timing for his suspension, on the day of his win at the Mr. International, is odd, but rules are rules.

Back to deciding who had the better physique... Arnold or Sergio?
Blatantly touched up 1970s style Grin Grin Grin..Sergio's calves didnot look big from the rear back then however Sergio always had Long muscle inserts in his calves even though he had the charming habit of not flexing his quads and calves as a whole with the rest of his body, in that pic of his "calves" its clear from the distortion in the picture by way of the blurring affect, the length and size have been shortened, i agree somewhat with the 1972 result as in it COULD of gone ether way as it was real close...however the point that others here@ getbig (and other websites) have made about politics @ the 72 show have some merit with all the negative stuff that had gone on before hand with Sergio's comments in non Weider mags, entering other non ifbb contests etc etc...too what extent we all will never know other than Mr Olympia 1972 is Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I personally think Sergio (in his best shape) had a better, balanced, structured physique than Arnold, after watching the 1972 O on DVD i think Sergio looks alot better than all the 72 O pics Ive seen, incredible mass, lines, quads, etc...id go with Sergio as Mr Olympia 1972 bye a whisker...


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GoneAway
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2008, 08:29:28 PM »

As much as I admire the incredible physique of Arnold Schwarzenegger, I must admit that he did have his flaws. Maybe more than Sergio.

Arnold's upper legs were sometimes a little weak when compared to his upperbody. His left arm, in some shots, looked smaller when compared to his right arm - speaking from a straight-on shot, not a twisting shot which purposely made the left arm look smaller. In some shots, Arnold's triceps are disproportionate to his biceps and hamstrings looking disproportionately smaller than quads - most notably in the side chest pose. At the 1968 IFBB Mr. Universe, his conditioning was horrible and he could have been alot bigger at the 1980 Mr. Olympia.

Sergio also had his flaws. Disproportionately small biceps, coupled with long biceps insertions and lack of detail between biceps and triceps when viewed from the front and back. Before 1980/1, a lack of detail between the muscles of the upper back, particularly in the back double biceps. Arnold always had great back detail and beats Sergio at the 1972 Mr. Olympia, because of superior detail and posing ability in this pose.

Make no mistake about it, though, Arnold had a very thick back and could match Sergio for thickness when they were competing together in the '70's.


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