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Author Topic: Rotator cuff work for injury prevention?  (Read 2399 times)
Tapeworm
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« on: December 27, 2008, 09:32:59 PM »

Shoulders are feeling bad these days during basically every movement.  Feels like an injury could be around the corner.  Do you guys recommend rotator cuff isolation, say, once a week?
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2008, 09:45:22 PM »

I do rotator cuff work every time i train shoulders and do some light rotator cuff work when i train chest sometimes.

I definietly recommend it. The last thing you want is screwed up shoulders.

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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2008, 09:46:14 PM »

Some will tell you that there are exercises to help with this. As someone who had this from very early on, i'd say the reality is that if you're getting pain it's not something that exercise itself will address, because it's related to repetititve stress trauma, based on:

-Insufficient warmup - if you want you can consider good warmup reps as a preventative measure towards the avoidance of rotator cuff injury.
-Excessive weight used-go to higher reps 10-15.
-Rests between sets are too long, thereby reducing intensity and allowing the area to cool down too much between sets.
-The exercise itself-try different grips, grip widths..
-If that doesn't work, discontinue the exercise and either use a variation ie dumbbell presses instead of BB, or an entirely different exercise.

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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2008, 10:15:22 PM »

Should have mentioned that incline bench (db or bb) and overhead pressing movements hurt the worst.

I admit I need to warm up better.  Probably a big culprit right there.  Just finished delts and supersetted, no rest, with lighter weights, 10-12 reps, and doesn't hurt near as much as going heavy with long rests (2 minutes is a long rest for me).

I'll go lighter but it's too bad - got a fridge full of leftovers (and more in the garage freezer) and been eating like a pig.  It'd be really nice to set some PRs while fattening up but I'll just have to stay in the higher reps for awhile. 

Web, do you just do the 2 standard ones?  Palm up & palm down dumbbell through a 90 degree range of motion?
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pumpster
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2008, 10:27:48 PM »

Should have mentioned that incline bench (db or bb) and overhead pressing movements hurt the worst.

Didn't have to, it's the classic cause. Wink
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 10:31:38 PM »

Didn't have to, it's the classic cause. Wink

Yup...  Sad

Thanks for the advice Pumpster.  Smiley  I'll definitely lighten up and warm up better.  I need my body to make a living so injury is not an option.
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 11:49:56 PM »

I had a similar problem 5 years ago. Went for 2 shots of Cortisone and took 1 month off training. Hasn't really bothered me ever since.
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The Coach
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 12:15:07 PM »

Shoulders are feeling bad these days during basically every movement.  Feels like an injury could be around the corner.  Do you guys recommend rotator cuff isolation, say, once a week?

Yes, it's called pre-habilitation work or "pre-hab" work. 2 days per week I have my guys do this as the first thing in their strength programs espcially with my throwing athletes. Here's a sample of what we do and it's mandatory.


Day 1 -

   Y-T-W-L
   Kneeling Y-T-W
   90/90
   Zottman Curls
   Baseball altitude drops


Day 2 -

Seated DB cleans w/external rotation
Scapula retractions
Seated scapula retractions
Internal/External rotations with bands


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Tapeworm
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 08:21:30 PM »

Yes, it's called pre-habilitation work or "pre-hab" work. 2 days per week I have my guys do this as the first thing in their strength programs espcially with my throwing athletes. Here's a sample of what we do and it's mandatory.


Day 1 -

   Y-T-W-L
   Kneeling Y-T-W
   90/90
   Zottman Curls
   Baseball altitude drops


Day 2 -

Seated DB cleans w/external rotation
Scapula retractions
Seated scapula retractions
Internal/External rotations with bands




Thanks Coach, good stuff!  I did some googling and it's interesting to see the link between scapular mobility/strength and shoulder health.  I never knew that before.  Once or twice a year I'll get a pinched nerve (I'm guessing) all of a sudden under or near my shoulder blade (never in the gym, sometimes without any load at all), sometimes so bad it hurts to just breath.  Maybe my shoulder issues are a symptom of the same problem. 

I'm going to start doing these as you have laid them out.  I don't have any bands though, so I hope DBs will be ok for a short time.  I'll get some bands ASAP but haven't seen any in the shops so it may take a little while if they have to order them in (any recommended rating?  How are bands rated?  Would plain 'ol bungee cords do the trick?)  Two more questions for you:

- Are the 90/90s and Internal/External rotations the same movement, except you get your guys to do the 90/90s with dumbbells and the Int/Ex Rotations are done with bands (so I guess you'd be standing with the bands but have to lie down with the DBs)?

- What are Baseball altitude drops?  Google wasn't much help.


Looks like the golf is going to be on me.  Wink
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The Coach
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 11:36:50 AM »

Thanks Coach, good stuff!  I did some googling and it's interesting to see the link between scapular mobility/strength and shoulder health.  I never knew that before.  Once or twice a year I'll get a pinched nerve (I'm guessing) all of a sudden under or near my shoulder blade (never in the gym, sometimes without any load at all), sometimes so bad it hurts to just breath.  Maybe my shoulder issues are a symptom of the same problem. 

I'm going to start doing these as you have laid them out.  I don't have any bands though, so I hope DBs will be ok for a short time.  I'll get some bands ASAP but haven't seen any in the shops so it may take a little while if they have to order them in (any recommended rating?  How are bands rated?  Would plain 'ol bungee cords do the trick?)  Two more questions for you:

- Are the 90/90s and Internal/External rotations the same movement, except you get your guys to do the 90/90s with dumbbells and the Int/Ex Rotations are done with bands (so I guess you'd be standing with the bands but have to lie down with the DBs)?

- What are Baseball altitude drops?  Google wasn't much help.


Looks like the golf is going to be on me.  Wink

Training the sub-scapular is an extremly important part of rotator cuff strength as it's really apart of the shoulder girdle. It's only makes sense to train the sub-scap as part of sabilizer work. This is why I'm big on stabilty (shoulder) training even when training for bodybuilding.

The first 90/90 is simply a horizontal adduction. On this you want to maintain scapula stability and horizontally adducting the humerous. The second two is an external rotation. 3 sets of 15 - 20.

The baseball altitude drop I use with a 9 or 11oz weighted baseball (you should be able to find this at a sporting goods store). Simply hold your arm out in front of you with your palm down while holding the baseball, then release the baseball at that starting point and catch it before it hits the ground. 3 sets of 20 release and catch. Do not let your arm go above shoulder level on the release. Some people have a natual habit of wanting to raise the their arm first then releasing the ball. All you need to do is just open your hand and release the ball and catch it (again, palm down) before it hits the ground.


www.joelocalpt.com
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 12:55:39 PM »

Training the sub-scapular is an extremly important part of rotator cuff strength as it's really apart of the shoulder girdle. It's only makes sense to train the sub-scap as part of sabilizer work. This is why I'm big on stabilty (shoulder) training even when training for bodybuilding.

The first 90/90 is simply a horizontal adduction. On this you want to maintain scapula stability and horizontally adducting the humerous. The second two is an external rotation. 3 sets of 15 - 20.

The baseball altitude drop I use with a 9 or 11oz weighted baseball (you should be able to find this at a sporting goods store). Simply hold your arm out in front of you with your palm down while holding the baseball, then release the baseball at that starting point and catch it before it hits the ground. 3 sets of 20 release and catch. Do not let your arm go above shoulder level on the release. Some people have a natual habit of wanting to raise the their arm first then releasing the ball. All you need to do is just open your hand and release the ball and catch it (again, palm down) before it hits the ground.


www.joelocalpt.com

Thanks Joe.  I'm thinking I'll do Day 1 on shoulder day, day 2 on back day, and do 'em along with a warmup.

Btw I just joined your forum.  Don't know if you'll view that as a good thing or a bad thing.  Wink
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The Coach
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 01:20:54 PM »

Thanks Joe.  I'm thinking I'll do Day 1 on shoulder day, day 2 on back day, and do 'em along with a warmup.

Btw I just joined your forum.  Don't know if you'll view that as a good thing or a bad thing.  Wink

I just saw that, thanks. The forum is there mostly to help and to have some fun. Look for a new forum design to be finished hopefully this week.
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 01:27:55 PM »

Not to be a dickhead but... how do you get negative karma on YOUR OWN FORUM?!  Grin lol
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The Coach
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 02:41:11 PM »

Not to be a dickhead but... how do you get negative karma on YOUR OWN FORUM?!  Grin lol

I have no idea, hopefully the new board won't have that Sad
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Zach Trowbridge
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2009, 02:33:51 PM »

Yes, it's called pre-habilitation work or "pre-hab" work. 2 days per week I have my guys do this as the first thing in their strength programs espcially with my throwing athletes. Here's a sample of what we do and it's mandatory.


Day 1 -

   Y-T-W-L
   Kneeling Y-T-W
   90/90
   Zottman Curls
   Baseball altitude drops


Day 2 -

Seated DB cleans w/external rotation
Scapula retractions
Seated scapula retractions
Internal/External rotations with bands




Do you ever do the Blackburns that Joe DeFranco has in his rotator training programs?  Looks kind of similar to the YTWL's facedown on the bench, 4 positions done for time.
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The Coach
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2009, 09:44:47 AM »

Do you ever do the Blackburns that Joe DeFranco has in his rotator training programs?  Looks kind of similar to the YTWL's facedown on the bench, 4 positions done for time.

Yes, I've seen it, the only thing I might disagree with Defranco on that move are the static holds for the 15-20sec in each position.
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