was Paul Anderson NATURAL?????????

[JimmyJam1974]

Was Arn Anderson natural?

IS ANYONE GOING TO ANSWE MY QUESTION? WAS ARN ANDERSON NATURAL?

[oldtimer1]

One last point before I get off my soap box.  Have you noticed that most of these steroid dealers that hang out in the gyms seem to have no job?  They all have membership to a two to three gyms.  Lastly they not only can get bodybuilding drugs like steroids, insulin, LH, anti estrogens, and such but they have a contact to get street drugs?  

Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron.  This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use.  It's so sad.  

I love the iron sports and it kills me that it has been turned into a sub culture that is laughed at by the general public.  You can find billiards on ESPN but not a bodybuilding show.  

[NarcissisticDeity]

One last point before I get off my soap box.  Have you noticed that most of these steroid dealers that hang out in the gyms seem to have no job?  They all have membership to a two to three gyms.  Lastly they not only can get bodybuilding drugs like steroids, insulin, LH, anti estrogens, and such but they have a contact to get street drugs?  

Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron.  This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use.  It's so sad.  

I love the iron sports and it kills me that it has been turned into a sub culture that is laughed at by the general public.  You can find billiards on ESPN but not a bodybuilding show.  

I used to watch the Nationals and the Olympia on ESPN back in the 80s now nothing 

remind me of this Reeves quote

STEVE "HERCULES" REEVES
Bodybuilding Legend Joins Muscular Development

"For over 30 years I've remained silent and just watched the transition that bodybuilding has made. And in my opinion, and in the opinions of many who have talked to me, bodybuilding, as it's practiced and promoted today, is dying--and dying fast.

Well, it's a good thing! Never in my life would I have imagined that such a terrific sport would be filled with so-called "champions" who are held up as heroes and adulated for physiques that are built with drugs. What kind of "real" bodybuilding champion is that?

Since when did a distinction need to be made between a "natural" bodybuilder and "chemical bodybuilder"? When I built my body, you were a bodybuilder--period! And you did it without drugs, by training hard, eating right and getting the right amount of rest.

It disturbs me to no end that today's muscle magazines are filled with stories on this-and-that champion's routine, when all the while the average man and woman are misled because these same magazines won't dare print the truth! And the truth is that these "champions" built their physiques after spending tens of thousands of dollars on steroids, growth hormone, insulin and whatever else happens to be the latest rage.

The public has been deceived for too long and it's time someone takes a stand. I will!

I want you to go to any newsstand during any given month and you'll find these same muscle magazines with cover blurbs and articles about the latest drugs. Open them up and you'll find page after page about drugs, how to take them and what to avoid. All this is the lie of supposedly giving their readers the information they say they want to know!

Recently, someone showed me a magazine put out by a young man in Colorado, and I was shocked. Unbelievably, bodybuilding is the only "sport" that has a magazine devoted to drugs! And this magazine promotes this character they call "the guru," who answers your most-asked drug-related questions.

After seeing photos of this fella, it makes you wonder; if drugs were so good, why didn't they work for him? Hey, and he's supposedly the "expert," whom people who want to know turn to! Wake up, friends! When and where will all this nonsense end? The other magazines won't stop it--and the bodybuilders sure as hell won't because they're stuck; either you keep taking drugs and getting bigger and more cut, or you won't win contests or get an endorsement contract.

Never in my life have I used any drug to build my body. Never! I wasn't born with the physique I built; I worked hard for it. Yet, I did it naturally. Sure, I didn't build it up to the size of today's drug-enhanced physiques, but I was after symmetry and proportion, and I achieved it in a package that allowed me to win the Mr. America and Mr. Universe titles, along with giving me a successful film career. Even today, at 71 years of age, I work on my ranch, work out and would be willing to bet that I could out-power walk many of those bloated muscle druggies 40 years my junior!
To me, a bodybuilder is someone who not only builds his body naturally, but has functional, real-world muscle that can be used at any time, and will help the person perform any activity better.

When it came to my body--the body you saw--and the condition I had, that was the body I had 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! I was not some bloated, out-of-shape, easily winded giant whose razor-sharp physique could only stay that way for a few weeks before or after a contest. (I can just hear the directive from the magazine editor to the photographers, "Hurry and snap those pictures before we lose him!")

When Steve Blechman, Publisher and Editor-In-Chief of NATURAL MD, spoke to me about his vision for taking the sport back to its natural roots, I applauded him. For others in the industry have had the opportunity and have "talked the talk," but no one has had the guts to take a stand for what's right. Blechman has. And that is why, after all these years, I've decided to help the sport I love get back to its proper place. One of the ways I intend to do that is by writing a monthly column for NATURAL MD magazine.

Something needs to be done now; we have no choice. For where there is no vision the people perish; and where there is no vision for the future of bodybuilding, bodybuilding will perish.

Many people may ask if there is another reason for me coming out of retirement to help save the sport. The answer is no, and I want to make one thing crystal clear: My passion for what I do has never been driven by money. I retired at the peak of my movie career, so that I could live life on my own terms.

All my life, I have never answered to anyone and I'm not about to do it now. The only thing I can give you in the coming months--through the pages of this magazine--is honesty and the truth about building your body without drugs.

I will teach you everything you will need to know to build the body you truly want. That is, to build it naturally and without any drugs. If you want to look like the other bodybuilders and want the latest drug information, then go to the other magazines. I'm only interested in talking about one thing: real bodybuilding. If that's what you want, then my friend, welcome home!"

[johnny1]

Testosterone was available in the 1940's.  There is zero proof anyone involved in the strength sports was using it for that purpose in the 40's.  The earliest rumors of anyone using it was the late 50's and it was the Russian Olympic lifters.  It was also rumored that they were having severe prostate enlargement shown by their problems urinating.  Dianabol was the first anabolic steroid created to minimize the androgenic properties of straight testosterone. It reduced the prostate problems of long term high dose testosterone. 

Guys don't listen to these fans of drugs who rationalize that anyone through time used drugs. They know in their very soul that deep down they would look like nothing without using drugs. It's all they have in life is their drug gained body.  Without drugs they have nothing. These simpletons will have you believe that the risks are on par with using aspirin once a week.  They will also have you believe that every elite athlete uses drugs and that's not true by a long shot. It's just justification for their own use. 

Paul Anderson was incredibly strong through most of his life without drugs.  Steve Reeves had an awesome build from 16 till 60.  It's terrible that cancer took him away.

Using bodybuilding drugs is a risk to health.  There are guys using heroin for 10 years but that doesn't mean it isn't a risk to health.  Many steroid users cycle on and off for 10 to 20 years.  Most quit due to financial, health or legal problems.  Most realize they threw away any chance of success in life because they chased the syringe to try to impress others.

Fantastic post oldtimer!!!!

[Figo]

Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron.  This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use.  It's so sad.   

Maybe sad, but reality.

For many decades, many champions have relied on bbing drugs, and they've become integral.

You mention that people want to smear the names of old time bbers as users, in order to justify their own reliance and inability to progress without aas.
I disagree, I wish everyone could be natural, and that I could believe what the mags say, and what the champs say.
But thats the realities, our heros and idols are sometimes hypocrites.

AAS is part of bbing, and has been for a long, long time. That doesnt take away from anybody, it just levels the playing field, since one guy is using, why arent all?

[Figo]

You always type this referenced in 1938 , Da Vinci referenced the parachute in 1483 it doesn't mean people were base jumping

The History of Synthetic Testosterone; February 1995; Scientific American Magazine; by Hoberman, Yesalis; 6 Page(s)

On June 1, 1889, Charles .douard Brown-S.quard, a prominent French physiologist, announced at the Soci.t. de Biologie in Paris that he had devised a rejuvenating therapy for the body and mind. The 72-year-old professor reported that he had drastically reversed his own decline by injecting himself with a liquid extract derived from the testicles of dogs and guinea pigs. These injections, he told his audience, had increased his physical strength and intellectual energy, relieved his constipation and even lengthened the arc of his urine.

Almost all experts, including some of Brown-S.quard's contemporaries, have agreed that these positive effects were induced by the power of suggestion, despite Brown-S.quard's claims to the contrary. Yet he was correct in proposing that the functions of the testicles might be enhanced or restored by replacing the substances they produce. His achievement was thus to make the idea of the "internal secretion," initially proposed by another well-known French physiologist, Claude Bernard, in 1855, the basis of an organotherapeutic "replacement " technique. Brown-S.quard's insight that internal secretions could act as physiological regulators (named hormones in 1905) makes him one of the founders of modern endocrinology. So began an era of increasingly sophisticated hormonal treatments that led to the synthesis in 1935 of testosterone, the primary male hormone produced by the testicles.

 

[Ursus]

and goudy would still believ him 

stop being stupid junkie 

[NarcissisticDeity]

The History of Synthetic Testosterone; February 1995; Scientific American Magazine; by Hoberman, Yesalis; 6 Page(s)

On June 1, 1889, Charles .douard Brown-S.quard, a prominent French physiologist, announced at the Soci.t. de Biologie in Paris that he had devised a rejuvenating therapy for the body and mind. The 72-year-old professor reported that he had drastically reversed his own decline by injecting himself with a liquid extract derived from the testicles of dogs and guinea pigs. These injections, he told his audience, had increased his physical strength and intellectual energy, relieved his constipation and even lengthened the arc of his urine.

Almost all experts, including some of Brown-S.quard's contemporaries, have agreed that these positive effects were induced by the power of suggestion, despite Brown-S.quard's claims to the contrary. Yet he was correct in proposing that the functions of the testicles might be enhanced or restored by replacing the substances they produce. His achievement was thus to make the idea of the "internal secretion," initially proposed by another well-known French physiologist, Claude Bernard, in 1855, the basis of an organotherapeutic "replacement " technique. Brown-S.quard's insight that internal secretions could act as physiological regulators (named hormones in 1905) makes him one of the founders of modern endocrinology. So began an era of increasingly sophisticated hormonal treatments that led to the synthesis in 1935 of testosterone, the primary male hormone produced by the testicles.

 

o.k these means what? as far as competitive bodybuilding and weightlifting is concerned?

[Ursus]

hoverboards have been invented for years but not commercially available

[Figo]

o.k these means what? as far as competitive bodybuilding and weightlifting is concerned?

It means synthetic test has been available since the 30's.

As previously mentioned, it was publicized too. Are you telling me that a drug that would have given an advantage in gaining muscle was available, bbers knew about it, and they were not using it?
When clen 1st became available, and there was very little scientific studies to back it up, bbers started using it due to rumours that it helped gain muscle/lose fat, even though, there were cautionary tales about it, not knowing long term effects.
The hoverboard, Da Vinci's inventions, arent really pertinent here, as they were ahead of their time, or not considered useful at the time. Test was available, known to work, given enough credit and recognition to win an award in scientific breakthroughs, mentioned in bbing mags, and as we know bbers will try anything to advance.
 

[NarcissisticDeity]

It means synthetic test has been available since the 30's.

As previously mentioned, it was publicized too. Are you telling me that a drug that would have given an advantage in gaining muscle was available, bbers knew about it, and they were not using it?
When clen 1st became available, and there was very little scientific studies to back it up, bbers started using it due to rumours that it helped gain muscle/lose fat, even though, there were cautionary tales about it, not knowing long term effects.
The hoverboard, Da Vinci's inventions, arent really pertinent here, as they were ahead of their time, or not considered useful at the time. Test was available, known to work, given enough credit and recognition to win an award in scientific breakthroughs, mentioned in bbing mags, and as we know bbers will try anything to advance.
 

Again you're taking a leap , just because there was a mention doesn't mean anything , there is NO mention what so ever it was used for performance enhancing not a peep until Ziegler ever wonder why? if it was readily avialable to the masses in the 30s you'd hear about it's use in athletics yet again no mentions , not in the United States anyway

for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substanciated everything else is just stories .

[fredrollon]

Again you're taking a leap , just because there was a mention doesn't mean anything , there is NO mention what so ever it was used for performance enhancing not a peep until Ziegler ever wonder why? if it was readily avialable to the masses in the 30s you'd hear about it's use in athletics yet again no mentions , not in the United States anyway

for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substanciated everything else is just stories .

When did bodybuilders and weightlifter and presumably the men who were backing them-the Weiders and Hoffmans of the world realise the muscle boosting effects of testosterone?


I did post an image 1945 Paul de Kruif bestseller "The Male Hormone" in a previous post,,,



Some quotes from Kruif...

“How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’"

''We know how the St. Louis Cardinals have won championships supercharged by vitamins.
It would be interesting to watch the productive power of an industry or a professional group that would try a systematic supercharge with testosterone.''

This book had excerpts printed from it in "The Readers Digest" and had articles written about it Newsweek ,The New York Times and Time Magazine.

The notion of using testosterone as a performance enhancer seems to have started in the mainstream and then sunsequently entered into the margins.

[fredrollon]

The book Testosterone dreams provides an interesting history of testosterone in the America of the 30s,40s and 50s.


Here is an extract from the book concerning the development of testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone(the earliest oral form of testosterone)
http://books.google.com/books?id=i_QJHEgl8gYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA106,M1

[QuakerOats]

my Lord!!!!!! look at the fuccking huge size and mass of the guy on the cover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he must be 188 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timfogarty]

for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substantiated everything else is just stories .

yes, it did not become widely available until the late 1950s.  and by then every top bodybuilder was using it, as can be seen by the changes in the physiques in the mags.  but you cannot say that no top bodybuilder was using it prior to that.

[NarcissisticDeity]

yes, it did not become widely available until the late 1950s.  and by then every top bodybuilder was using it, as can be seen by the changes in the physiques in the mags.  but you cannot say that no top bodybuilder was using it prior to that.

Sure you can , there is NO proof what so ever , just mentions of it , just from the physique standpoint they didn't start changing drastically until 1960 and beyond if any pro was using in the 30/40 and early 50s he would be an anomaly

[NarcissisticDeity]

The book Testosterone dreams provides an interesting history of testosterone in the America of the 30s,40s and 50s.


Here is an extract from the book concerning the development of testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone(the earliest oral form of testosterone)
http://books.google.com/books?id=i_QJHEgl8gYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA106,M1

I get that the medical community was interested in the possible benefits of testosterone but again just to state this doesn't mean they were being used effectively as performance enhancing drugs in strength athletes , even at first Ziegler had little success

[JOHN MATRIX]

one way maybe to tell is by looking at the numbers. its obvious bbers started 'the vitamin-s' around the mid 60's, suddenly larry scott shows up with 19-20inch arms, next year sergio Oliva completely sets a new standard etc..

so when did the numbers of top weightlifters suddenly increase dramatically? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

one way maybe to tell is by looking at the numbers. its obvious bbers started 'the vitamin-s' around the mid 60's, suddenly larry scott shows up with 19-20inch arms, next year sergio Oliva completely sets a new standard etc..

so when did the numbers of top weightlifters suddenly increase dramatically? 

early 60s

[timfogarty]

if any pro was using in the 30/40 and early 50s he would be an anomaly

first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense.   second, yes they'd be an anomaly.  and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league.  Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41.  Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.

[Figo]

first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense.   second, yes they'd be an anomaly.  and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league.  Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41.  Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.

Reeves and Park.

Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.

[fredrollon]

Reeves and Park.

Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.

It think bodybuilders from the late forties/early fifties show the first discernible change.
From the time of Reg Park in the fifties or Larry Scott in the sixties the visual changes from that of bodybuilder from the thirties and before become too noticeable to ignore.

The best physique athletes from before the second world war,had a denser and less massive physique than physique athletes from the fifties,sixties and seventies.In fairness,you could attribute this to a lot of them  mastering a broader curriculum of gymnastics,Olympic lifting and strongmen feats.



A few athletes from the around the time we are talking (ie pre Ziegler) seemed to be presenting a more massive physique and at the same time possessing decent proportion.This was something new and definitely a progression from the physique of a Sandow-a physique which for the most part of the first half of the twentieth century was equaled but not surpassed.In criticism,to the viewer,they presented a greater smoothness of muscle tone and lacked the rugged and dense look of their predecessors.

I see here that the foundations of the modern sport of professional bodybuilding-the development of a massive and well proportioned physique as an end in itself rather than a pleasant adjunct to strength and athleticism-were first being laid.

[NarcissisticDeity]

first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense.   second, yes they'd be an anomaly.  and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league.  Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41.  Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.

Again pure speculation on your part , these men genetically had an advantage as well you're assuming it was drug related these men weren't insanely larger than their contemporaries

[fredrollon]

As to whether Paul Anderson was natural or not...
Did he ever deny taking steroids?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Reeves and Park.

Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.

Reeves said out right he never did them many times , Park maybe but later on .