Author Topic: What if Obama declared on his first day in office  (Read 1624 times)

danielson

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16640
  • Basile likes young lads
What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« on: January 03, 2009, 04:04:27 PM »
That the US would no longer get involved with Israel and Palestine? They are going to keep fighting for decades if not longer, so why should we give a shit what they do? Any money being spent over there should help Americans in need or be used to create jobs imo. You guys think gas prices would skyrocket? Is this feasible even?
E

w8tlftr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5111
  • I ♥ ( o Y o )
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 04:52:36 PM »
Never happen.


Hereford

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4028
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 05:02:40 PM »
Agreed.

The US and the UK will never let Israel stand alone.

If Israel was anything other than a jewish state, then maybe....

danielson

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16640
  • Basile likes young lads
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 05:07:54 PM »
Never happen.



What if it did? Wouldn't that make him the most popular president ever? I mean who the fuck do we think we are kidding trying to intervene over there? They are fighting an irrational religious war, they will not stop, no matter how much we try to "help".
E

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 05:11:37 PM »
What if it did? Wouldn't that make him the most popular president ever? I mean who the fuck do we think we are kidding trying to intervene over there? They are fighting an irrational religious war, they will not stop, no matter how much we try to "help".

Don't know if it would lead to him being the most popular President ever. It would probably lead to a massive war and multiple genocides. Knowing that the West isn't supporting Israel, the Muslims will miraculously have their balls drop and try to pull what they did in 1948 and Israel, feeling that their backs are against the wall, would lash out like their capable of. It'd be a gigantic clusterfuck.

danielson

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16640
  • Basile likes young lads
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 05:20:41 PM »
Don't know if it would lead to him being the most popular President ever. It would probably lead to a massive war and multiple genocides. Knowing that the West isn't supporting Israel, the Muslims will miraculously have their balls drop and try to pull what they did in 1948 and Israel, feeling that their backs are against the wall, would lash out like their capable of. It'd be a gigantic clusterfuck.

Our country is a clusterfuck though. Why worry about them so much? Now is the time to take care of ourselves. Many of you guys live in areas not as greatly affected as I do, but this economy is getting bad. I know guys who were making 200 grand plus only 4 years ago and have lost everything. Not to mention the auto industry and the soon to be decline of the middle class in this country.
E

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 05:24:02 PM »
Our country is a clusterfuck though. Why worry about them so much? Now is the time to take care of ourselves. Many of you guys live in areas not as greatly affected as I do, but this economy is getting bad. I know guys who were making 200 grand plus only 4 years ago and have lost everything. Not to mention the auto industry and the soon to be decline of the middle class in this country.

I agree with cutting back our support. Should cut it back on everyone. We dump billions into the Middle East and they still hate us. They could go fuck themselves and wallow in their own filth. They'll be singing a different tune when the oil runs out and the rest of the world tells them to get bent.

danielson

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16640
  • Basile likes young lads
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2009, 05:26:16 PM »
I agree with cutting back our support. Should cut it back on everyone. We dump billions into the Middle East and they still hate us. They could go fuck themselves and wallow in their own filth. They'll be singing a different tune when the oil runs out and the rest of the world tells them to get bent.

Absolutely back out of there. People are starving here, people are losing equity in their homes(this really fucks up consumer spending among other things) and losing their jobs. Fuck the middle east, lets help our own.
E

w8tlftr

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5111
  • I ♥ ( o Y o )
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 07:56:00 PM »
What if it did? Wouldn't that make him the most popular president ever? I mean who the fuck do we think we are kidding trying to intervene over there? They are fighting an irrational religious war, they will not stop, no matter how much we try to "help".

I don't know if it would make him the "most popular" president ever. I think we need to cut back aid to a lot of countries and get our own house in order. However, I seriously don't think it will ever happen.

Besides, the last thing we need is a bunch of durkas thinking they can go jihad on Israel because we cut support. I think it would spark a global war of the nastiest proportions.


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39584
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 06:54:28 AM »
Absolutely back out of there. People are starving here, people are losing equity in their homes(this really fucks up consumer spending among other things) and losing their jobs. Fuck the middle east, lets help our own.

I hate to break this to you, but the housing market is screwed for a long long time. 

danielson

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16640
  • Basile likes young lads
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 09:04:44 AM »
I hate to break this to you, but the housing market is screwed for a long long time. 

True, but wouldn't the billions we are throwing at the Jews helping them fight the Palestinians at least help our situation?
E

Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 09:48:53 AM »
I agree with cutting back our support. Should cut it back on everyone. We dump billions into the Middle East and they still hate us. They could go fuck themselves and wallow in their own filth. They'll be singing a different tune when the oil runs out and the rest of the world tells them to get bent.

We dump much less money in the rest of the Arab states combined (twofold) than in Israel (apart from Iraq and Afghanistan, which we've fucked up and we're now rebuilding).

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2009, 10:11:30 AM »
We dump much less money in the rest of the Arab states combined (twofold) than in Israel (apart from Iraq and Afghanistan, which we've fucked up and we're now rebuilding).

We've given Pakistan roughly $11 billion since 9/11. It was split between money for economic purposes and money for military building purposes. Roughly 10% of that has gone to development aid and humanitarian assistance. Most of that money is now unaccounted for and probably being used to finance attacks against us. Do some research.

And why should we give the rest of the Arab states money? They obviously don't use the money we give them. Most of the time it ends up lining the pockets of the people in power while the rest of the population continues to starve and live in mud huts. Same goes with South America.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2009, 10:16:33 AM »
We dump much less money in the rest of the Arab states combined (twofold) than in Israel (apart from Iraq and Afghanistan, which we've fucked up and we're now rebuilding).

Who Gets U.S. Foreign Aid
The U.S. will give an estimated $26 billion in foreign aid in 2008—70% more than when President George W. Bush took office (the figure doesn’t include funds related to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). More than 150 countries get financial assistance from the U.S. Here are the six that received the most this year. 

    COUNTRY    AID    PURPOSE
1. Israel    $2.4 billion    Virtually all of this money is used to buy weapons (up to 75% made in the U.S.). Beginning in 2009, the U.S. plans to give $30 billion over 10 years.

2. Egypt    $1.7 billion    $1.3 billion to buy weapons; $103 million for education; $74 million for health care; $45 million to promote civic participation and human rights.

3. Pakistan    $798 million    $330 million for security efforts, including military-equipment upgrades and border security; $20 million for infrastructure.

4. Jordan    $688 million    $326 million to fight terrorism and promote regional stability through equipment upgrades and training; $163 million cash payment to the Jordanian government.

5. Kenya    $586 million    $501 million to fight HIV/AIDS through drug treatment and abstinence education and to combat malaria; $15 million for agricultural development; $5.4 million for programs that promote government accountability.

6. South Africa    $574 million    $557 million to fight TB and HIV/AIDS; $3 million for education.

7. Mexico    $551 million    

8. Colombia    $541 million    .

9. Nigeria    $491 million    

10. Sudan    $479 million    

http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence-report/archive/who-gets-us-foreign-aid.html

Much less money combined? Man, you're just a flat out liar, bro. Start doing some research. Most of the money we give Israel ends up coming back to us anyway. You're really showing just how clueless you really are.


I'd personally be concerned about the $480 million going to Sudan. That situation is the most gigantic clusterfuck I've ever seen. I can't even fathom where half of that money has gone considering the situation there.

tu_holmes

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 15922
  • Robot
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2009, 11:27:19 AM »
danielson, if Obama did that, he would not only be insanely popular to most US citizens, but he'd be doing one of the smarter things for the US.

It's not going to happen though.

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2009, 12:53:32 PM »
Who Gets U.S. Foreign Aid
The U.S. will give an estimated $26 billion in foreign aid in 2008—70% more than when President George W. Bush took office (the figure doesn’t include funds related to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). More than 150 countries get financial assistance from the U.S. Here are the six that received the most this year. 

    COUNTRY    AID    PURPOSE
1. Israel    $2.4 billion    Virtually all of this money is used to buy weapons (up to 75% made in the U.S.). Beginning in 2009, the U.S. plans to give $30 billion over 10 years.

2. Egypt    $1.7 billion    $1.3 billion to buy weapons; $103 million for education; $74 million for health care; $45 million to promote civic participation and human rights.

3. Pakistan    $798 million    $330 million for security efforts, including military-equipment upgrades and border security; $20 million for infrastructure.

4. Jordan    $688 million    $326 million to fight terrorism and promote regional stability through equipment upgrades and training; $163 million cash payment to the Jordanian government.

5. Kenya    $586 million    $501 million to fight HIV/AIDS through drug treatment and abstinence education and to combat malaria; $15 million for agricultural development; $5.4 million for programs that promote government accountability.

6. South Africa    $574 million    $557 million to fight TB and HIV/AIDS; $3 million for education.

7. Mexico    $551 million    

8. Colombia    $541 million    .

9. Nigeria    $491 million    

10. Sudan    $479 million    

http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence-report/archive/who-gets-us-foreign-aid.html

Much less money combined? Man, you're just a flat out liar, bro. Start doing some research. Most of the money we give Israel ends up coming back to us anyway. You're really showing just how clueless you really are.


I'd personally be concerned about the $480 million going to Sudan. That situation is the most gigantic clusterfuck I've ever seen. I can't even fathom where half of that money has gone considering the situation there.

Problem is, if we don't give it to Sudan, China will, and Sudan is rich in Oil. China could care less what the Sudanese do to their own people, much less to other countries. but the US has to be seen as a Moral Leader.

Plus, Africa is the next to watch, where China goes the US has to be there. I read an article that China was looking to dump off 300 Million of it's own citizens in African countries, just to alleviate the population explosion. If this is true, then there will be huge conflicts in Africa, namely, Chinese people being slaughtered.

drkaje

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18188
  • Quiet, Err. I'm transmitting rage.
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2009, 01:37:02 PM »
That the US would no longer get involved with Israel and Palestine? They are going to keep fighting for decades if not longer, so why should we give a shit what they do? Any money being spent over there should help Americans in need or be used to create jobs imo. You guys think gas prices would skyrocket? Is this feasible even?

We wouldn't have enough security to protect him.

Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2009, 01:42:48 PM »
Who Gets U.S. Foreign Aid
The U.S. will give an estimated $26 billion in foreign aid in 2008—70% more than when President George W. Bush took office (the figure doesn’t include funds related to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan). More than 150 countries get financial assistance from the U.S. Here are the six that received the most this year. 

    COUNTRY    AID    PURPOSE
1. Israel    $2.4 billion    Virtually all of this money is used to buy weapons (up to 75% made in the U.S.). Beginning in 2009, the U.S. plans to give $30 billion over 10 years.

2. Egypt    $1.7 billion    $1.3 billion to buy weapons; $103 million for education; $74 million for health care; $45 million to promote civic participation and human rights.

3. Pakistan    $798 million    $330 million for security efforts, including military-equipment upgrades and border security; $20 million for infrastructure.

4. Jordan    $688 million    $326 million to fight terrorism and promote regional stability through equipment upgrades and training; $163 million cash payment to the Jordanian government.

5. Kenya    $586 million    $501 million to fight HIV/AIDS through drug treatment and abstinence education and to combat malaria; $15 million for agricultural development; $5.4 million for programs that promote government accountability.

6. South Africa    $574 million    $557 million to fight TB and HIV/AIDS; $3 million for education.

7. Mexico    $551 million    

8. Colombia    $541 million    .

9. Nigeria    $491 million    

10. Sudan    $479 million    

http://www.parade.com/news/intelligence-report/archive/who-gets-us-foreign-aid.html

Much less money combined? Man, you're just a flat out liar, bro. Start doing some research. Most of the money we give Israel ends up coming back to us anyway. You're really showing just how clueless you really are.


I'd personally be concerned about the $480 million going to Sudan. That situation is the most gigantic clusterfuck I've ever seen. I can't even fathom where half of that money has gone considering the situation there.

"...And you fell right into my lap".

You take the data from 1 single year and extrapolate it to all foreign aid given to all these countries. First and foremost, all economic aid given to Israel is given in cash, which means it is very difficult to track (if not impossible,) as opposed to the majority of other countries (including Arab countries) which get our money in the form of interest-bearing grants and loans, which are easy to track. 

Notice there is a subtle but important difference when paying in cash and paying via loans/grants. The majority of Arab countries have to pay interest on all the loans, which is economically beneficial to all Americans (makes sense). On the other hand Israel does not pay interest, but since the money has to come from the treasury it has to be financed via loans vs someone, and that someone is nonother than The American People, which means the interest burden on all the cash paid to Israel is put on all Americans. How much money have we paid to the Israelis via forgone interest payments you may ask? Since 1949 we, The American People, have borne the whopping amount of 49.937 billion (source). In real economic terms this means that the US government has given more federal aid to Israeli citizens that to the American People themselves.

Now, let's go to the figures. I've searched the internet looking for total US foreign aid figures, not just 2008 (which is what you intelligently base your "flat out liar" accusation on mind you,) and came up with some interesting figures. In the case of Israel I must warn you, I took the lowest estimate, as there are research groups accounting for 125-150 billion dollars in total aid to Israel since 1949 (including interest). I came up with the following. Feel free to click on the links:

Israel
108 billion
Egypt
53 billion
Pakistan
13 billion
Jordan
17 billion
Sudan
6 billion
Indonesia
1 billion

Remember, the above are not 1-year estimates, it's the TOTAL foreign aid given to the country, not one year, not one decade, ALL OF IT. By doing a little calculation we will find out that Israel has received a total of 108 billion dollars in US foreign aid, while the remaining Arab states combined have received a lifetime total of roughly 89.703 billion.

Have a nice week end (what's left of it).

 8) 8) 8) 8)

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2009, 01:47:57 PM »
That the US would no longer get involved with Israel and Palestine? They are going to keep fighting for decades if not longer, so why should we give a shit what they do? Any money being spent over there should help Americans in need or be used to create jobs imo. You guys think gas prices would skyrocket? Is this feasible even?

AGREE 100% there are thousands of capable AMERICANS who dont have jobs, who cant pay the exhorbitant college fees, need medical care but cant pay the ridiculous amounts, shitty roads, bridges and infrastructure, etc etc,,
yet we are GIVING ISRAEL BILLIONS of dollars and all we get back is millions who hate us. also we dump BILLIONS EACH MONTH into iraq.

what a fucking joke. a real president would say straight up, 'we are going to spend our money on AMERICANS, let the middle east do what they want and israel, go fuck yourselves we arent propping you worthless bastards up anymore'

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 01:52:16 PM »
AGREE 100% there are thousands of capable AMERICANS who dont have jobs, who cant pay the exhorbitant college fees, need medical care but cant pay the ridiculous amounts, shitty roads, bridges and infrastructure, etc etc,,
yet we are GIVING ISRAEL BILLIONS of dollars and all we get back is millions who hate us. also we dump BILLIONS EACH MONTH into iraq.

what a fucking joke. a real president would say straight up, 'we are going to spend our money on AMERICANS, let the middle east do what they want and israel, go fuck yourselves we arent propping you worthless bastards up anymore'

Fence the Middle East in. Give them a year to sort out their differences. Come in, clean up the aftermath. Take oil. Profit.

Slapper, what you conveniently ignore is the fact that 75%+ of the foreign aid we give Israel comes right back to us in the form of weapon purchases. The Arab countries we give foreign aid to turn around and put it in their pockets. $53 billion to Egypt? That country is a fucking shithole that breeds extremist, i.e. Zawahiri. ::)

Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 02:20:48 PM »
[...]Slapper, what you conveniently ignore is the fact that 75%+ of the foreign aid we give Israel comes right back to us in the form of weapon purchases.

That is not true either. A large part of the aid is humanitan aid given to the state of Israel to build infraestructure. I'd really like to know why we're giving "humanitarian aid" to a first-world country though... Apart from this, and since you've mentioned it, the military aid they do spend on weapons does indeed work its way back to the states, but since we pay for it to begin with it means that WE PAY FOR IT. 

Quote
The Arab countries we give foreign aid to turn around and put it in their pockets. $53 billion to Egypt? That country is a fucking shithole that breeds extremist, i.e. Zawahiri. ::)

Well, Egypt is nowhere near Israel in warring terms, so I'd say that the arab country is making much better use of the money. Israel uses it to kill people. Plain and simple.

JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2009, 02:51:27 PM »
Berzerk tires hard to point out every negative thing in the news done by muslims (which is fine) but then gets all worked up if anyone brings up the  atrocities, or any negative thing whatsoever done on the part of the israelis during any time in their short, violent, hate-filled history, and has absolutely no problems with america wasting billions of dollars on them when all we get in return is negative and hurtful to us.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2009, 02:58:00 PM »
Berzerk tires hard to point out every negative thing in the news done by muslims (which is fine) but then gets all worked up if anyone brings up the  atrocities, or any negative thing whatsoever done on the part of the israelis during any time in their short, violent, hate-filled history, and has absolutely no problems with america wasting billions of dollars on them when all we get in return is negative and hurtful to us.

No, I do. I also believe that we need to unilaterally cut back on our support to EVERYONE. The day I care about an Israeli or ANY foreigner more than I care about an American is the day I kill myself. I'm just tired of reading about the bullshit with Muslims. These animals can't even get along with each other, so why should we care about anything they do? Just look at Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. They're content blowing each other up over the fact that one is Shi'a and the other is Sunni. I'm all for letting them do it to their heart's content. But I feel that regardless of supporting Israel or not, the Muslim world will have something to bitch about. They'll just move onto the next thing on their list of gripes with us. That's how they work.

All this news coverage over a few hundred dead Palestinians. Nevermind the fact that MUSLIM janjaweed has been staging a systematic ethnic cleansing of African blacks using rape, torture, etc in the Sudan for years now. How many thousands upon thousands have died from that? No one cares because it involves Muslims and blacks though, two of the more ill-received demographics.

Frankly, I hope they cut the bullshit on both sides because if it keeps up I think it's going to start covering up the real problems plaguing us, like our collapsing economy, which I think is 100000x more important than some dead Palestinians.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2009, 03:13:42 PM »
we spend more $ in afghanistan and iraq than we do in israel.

Isr is only #3 on the list.

and they're the only cuntry in the region that would put birds up russia or china's ass should they ever hit us with a surprise.



JOHN MATRIX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13281
  • the Media is the Problem
Re: What if Obama declared on his first day in office
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2009, 12:56:06 PM »
we spend more $ in afghanistan and iraq than we do in israel.

Isr is only #3 on the list.

and they're the only cuntry in the region that would put birds up russia or china's ass should they ever hit us with a surprise.

honestly 240 i dont think they would do a thing, they would sit back and wait for the dust to settle, then try to allign themselves with whoever is the top dog standing.
they know if they did fire on someone they would themselves become a target..and they WOULD NOT EVER put their own selves at risk for any other nation.