the only ugl ive ever seen that wasnt on the net... just like on thats around thegym... was one called "us pharma" .. but its super popular around where im at.. that, and also BD ... i dont know if they are using IP BD , or old BD.. but i know alot who use it and they say its good. but they dont look anything like someone who trains and takes gear. so i doubt its good stuff. same with the us pharma.