Muscle Soreness Needed?

[TBUNZEE]

Quick question for everyone on here....Im just wondering how many of you experience muscular soreness that day(s) after a workout to be the key determining factor of a job well done?  Do you always get sore after every workout and if you dont do you feel like you didnt push it hard enough the day before?  I get pissed if my biceps are not sore after an arms workout (rarely happens) and I love it when my legs are super sore for days after a great leg workout...Nutrition, hydration, drugs, etc can all effect this but just wondering what your general thoughts are and to see if your angry when not sore the next day like me...

[Bluto]

i find it mostly annoying

[Eyeball Chambers]

My legs always hurt two days after I work them out.

I'm not sure why.

[Bluto]

My legs always hurt two days after I work them out.

I'm not sure why.

same with more hurt 2nd day than day after

[The Coach]

Not having DOMS doesn't mean you didn't have a good workout nor does it mean your not progressing.

[TBUNZEE]

Yeah legs seem to take a day and than bam they hit ya with the soreness out of nowhere....they seem to be the exception to this rule...

[TBUNZEE]

Coach what does it mean then?  I always just assumed you did a better job tearing the muscle fibers when sore the next day...(along with other things)

[Emmortal]

Not having DOMS doesn't mean you didn't have a good workout nor does it mean your not progressing.

Exactly. 

[240 is Back]

I give squat racks DOMS.

[Bobby]

Not having DOMS doesn't mean you didn't have a good workout nor does it mean your not progressing.

what does it mean when you have it and when you don't then

[Bluto]

We're not sure what it means, as with most things with bodybuilding there's no clear answer

[Eyeball Chambers]

As far as I know Lactic acid is the sole cause of muscle soreness.  So it's really not an indicator of how successful your workout was.

[Bobby]

As far as I know Lactic acid is the sole cause of muscle soreness.  So it's really not an indicator of how successful your workout was.

but that's during the workout, not days after??

[dayweed]

As far as I know Lactic acid is the sole cause of muscle soreness.  So it's really not an indicator of how successful your workout was.

Lactic acid has nothing to do with DOMS. People believed this like 30 years ago - now we know better.

[Bobby]

Lactic acid has nothing to do with DOMS. People believed this like 30 years ago - now we know better.

well, spill it then, einstein

[TBUNZEE]

This is true the lactic acid is during not after....Coach give us the info we seek as you seem very knowledgeable or is it one of those things we just truly dont know....DOMS=a better ripping of muscle fibers from the day before=better growth if muscles are fed...T OR F ?

[Eyeball Chambers]

but that's during the workout, not days after??

Lactic acid has nothing to do with DOMS. People believed this like 30 years ago - now we know better.

Oh you guys are right.

Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), also sometimes called muscle fever, is the pain or discomfort often felt 24 to 72 hours after exercising and subsides generally within 2 to 3 days. It is frequently said to be caused by lactic acid buildup; however, since lactic acid disperses fairly rapidly, it could not explain pain experienced days after exercise, and some concentric-only exercises produce lactic acid, but rarely produce DOMS.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_onset_muscle_soreness

[TBUNZEE]

From Wikipedia:  "Some research claims that DOMS is not caused by the pain from damaged muscle cells, but from the reinforcement process.[3] The muscle responds to training by reinforcing itself up to and above its previous strength by increasing the size of muscle fibers (muscle hypertrophy). This reinforcement process causes the cells to swell in their compartment and put pressure on nerves and arteries producing pain" this seems to say that DOMS would be a good result of a hard workout and a job well done vs. no DOMS at all no ?

[Bluto]

From what I can remember we had plenty of discussions on this subject on the training board, might wanna check that out

[burn2live]

There are a few theories behind DOMS. One is to do with the Z lines of sarcomeres being disrupted and plasma proteins leaking out of the cell, creating an inflammatory response, hence the swollen feeling and pain. In a lot of clinical investigations they use creatine kinase (one of the plasma proteins) as a marker for DOMS. Prostaglandin E2 is also involved in the inflammatory response and this is why a lot of people believe that NSAIDs can help recovery from DOMS.

Another theory is to do with the production of reactive oxygen species and an influx of phagocytes or something  

[webcake]

All i know is that since i started stretching a lot, DOMS have been minimal.

Too many people place too much emphasis on DOMS, and seem to determine the effectiveness of a workout by how sore they are the next day.

[Bobby]

From Wikipedia:  "Some research claims that DOMS is not caused by the pain from damaged muscle cells, but from the reinforcement process.[3] The muscle responds to training by reinforcing itself up to and above its previous strength by increasing the size of muscle fibers (muscle hypertrophy). This reinforcement process causes the cells to swell in their compartment and put pressure on nerves and arteries producing pain" this seems to say that DOMS would be a good result of a hard workout and a job well done vs. no DOMS at all no ?

the answer i was hoping for....as i've always aimed to get sore (man that sounds gay) but seriously feel like my workout was not good enough if i don't get sore.

[burn2live]

From Wikipedia:  "Some research claims that DOMS is not caused by the pain from damaged muscle cells, but from the reinforcement process.[3] The muscle responds to training by reinforcing itself up to and above its previous strength by increasing the size of muscle fibers (muscle hypertrophy). This reinforcement process causes the cells to swell in their compartment and put pressure on nerves and arteries producing pain" this seems to say that DOMS would be a good result of a hard workout and a job well done vs. no DOMS at all no ?

I would disagree, DOMS isn't really a measurement of a hard workout, moreso a measurement of a workout that your body wasn't adequately prepared for.

[Eyeball Chambers]

I've been warming up really well, and not noticing it as bad.  It use to be so bad it hurt to go down steps two days after legs.

[TBUNZEE]

burn2live crazy intellectual response nicely done... also webcke stretching has def. helped me eliminate DOMS also....I guess we put this debate to rest for now...