Waterboarding is torture, & not even prez can declare it an acceptable tactic

[tonymctones]

I think many studies have shown that torture doesn't provide accurate information... But many people such as yourself don't like that, so we continue to do it.

I think we should strive to be... Whether we are or not isn't the point... We should always strive to be better... as a human race.

where does striving to be better stop though? hey it would be even better if we just conceded and let them have what they wanted isnt it? could that not be percieved as better for the human race?

The simple fact of the matter is we are morally superior to them no matter whether we kill every single one of the detainees at gitmo or not. You agree with that?

The other simple fact is that in WAR there is NO MORAL SUPERIORITY PC BULLSHIT...Look im all for fighting a upfront stand up war but THEY choose to use tatics that put ppl at risk they choose to target innocent civilians, they choose to torture and kill or captured soldiers and your saying that we should be considerate of how their captured fighters feel and are treated? Ive said it before and ill say it again being morally superior doesnt keep me or you or our soldiers any safer actually it puts them in harms way. Fine you dont want to water board the captured terrorist thats fine with me lets put 2 in their heads and be done with it round up everybody they know and put 2 in their heads too just to be safe, but hey we wouldnt have waterboarded anybody  

Im tired of this we have to conduct ourselves with a certain degree of hospitality to the enemy while they give our troops and CIVILIANS nothing. You want to argue about torture go talk to the terrorist im sure they would be interested in what you had to say right before they chopped your head off and recorded it so your family could watch it all on the internet.

[Soul Crusher]

The British said the same thing about the colonists who used guerilla tactics to defeat the redcoats. 

[tu_holmes]

Hey, I don't need to know how the sausage is made!  Just let me enjoy it.

Get it?

If our intell peeps are doing "things" to keep another attack from happening inside our borders, I don't give a bucket load of doo-dee what they do. 
As long as I or my family can go to the mall or fly on a plane without worry.


I LOVE Jack Nicholson's lines in 'A Few Good Men.'  And it's very relevant in this topic.

"....you rise and sleep under the very blanket of freedom that I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it."  "I would rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way."

"...you want me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall."

Didn't he go to prison at the end of that movie?

Proves my point well.

[Soul Crusher]

Didn't he go to prison at the end of that movie?

Proves my point well.

If Patton were alive, people like you would put him in a cell too.

[tu_holmes]

where does striving to be better stop though? hey it would be even better if we just conceded and let them have what they wanted isnt it? could that not be percieved as better for the human race?

No.

The simple fact of the matter is we are morally superior to them no matter whether we kill every single one of the detainees at gitmo or not. You agree with that?

Sure... but being better doesn't mean you draw the line where you see it.

You put the line very high and you do everything you can do to strive to reach that line... It's not always the action, but the desire.

This falls very short of the attempt to be better if you ask me.

The other simple fact is that in WAR there is NO MORAL SUPERIORITY PC BULLSHIT...Look im all for fighting a upfront stand up war but THEY choose to use tatics that put ppl at risk they choose to target innocent civilians, they choose to torture and kill or captured soldiers and your saying that we should be considerate of how their captured fighters feel and are treated? Ive said it before and ill say it again being morally superior doesnt keep me or you or our soldiers any safer actually it puts them in harms way. Fine you dont want to water board the captured terrorist thats fine with me lets put 2 in their heads and be done with it round up everybody they know and put 2 in their heads too just to be safe, but hey we wouldnt have waterboarded anybody  

Were they found guilty of a crime?

Cool, then execute them.

I have no issue there.

Im tired of this we have to conduct ourselves with a certain degree of hospitality to the enemy while they give our troops and CIVILIANS nothing. You want to argue about torture go talk to the terrorist im sure they would be interested in what you had to say right before they chopped your head off and recorded it so your family could watch it all on the internet.

I am talking to people who it should matter to... Do I like the terrorists... Hell no... Do I give a shit what THEY think.

No... but when I wake up, I strive to be better than some backwards neanderthal in the middle of a desert... Don't you?

Why would you want to hold yourself to THEIR standard? That's definitely the easy way out if you ask me.

[mightymouse72]

Didn't he go to prison at the end of that movie?

Proves my point well.

Yep, it does prove your point.

That you would send someone who protects you to jail.
Awesome point.

Makes a lot of sense!   

[Dos Equis]

Ridiculous... 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Studies have shown that torture, no matter what you call waterboarding... Doesn't get any viable information.

So it's ok to beat people up as long as you don't kill them... Gotcha.

It's ridiculous to compare waterboarding with decapitation. 

Not everyone believes waterboarding is torture.  So we aren't necessarily talking about two wrongs.   

[tonymctones]

Sure... but being better doesn't mean you draw the line where you see it.

You put the line very high and you do everything you can do to strive to reach that line... It's not always the action, but the desire.

This falls very short of the attempt to be better if you ask me.

again you like 240 miss the forest for the trees, Whether we waterboard or not we could still be considered leaps and bounds more morally superior to them we go out of our way to avoid killing civilians even though it would make our the tasks easier where as they intentionally target civilians. We feed and give quarter to captured fighters they behead and tape captured soldiers.

I am talking to people who it should matter to... Do I like the terrorists... Hell no... Do I give a shit what THEY think.

No... but when I wake up, I strive to be better than some backwards neanderthal in the middle of a desert... Don't you?

Why would you want to hold yourself to THEIR standard? That's definitely the easy way out if you ask me.

Easy way out LOL I hold myself to my standard and putting fellow citizens and soldiers in harms way to make others feel like we are morally superior to them is far below my standard.

[Eyeball Chambers]

The new AG should straighten this out.

So far it seems like we have some civilized human beings taking charge. 

[Eyeball Chambers]

It'll be weird having an AG that actually does his job - check the President when he tries to abuse Constitution.

Remember, all Alberto Gonzalex did was hide Bush's 1997 DUI, and then forget anything under oath.

HAHA

The rule of law means something again?

Amazing stuff...

[tu_holmes]

again you like 240 miss the forest for the trees, Whether we waterboard or not we could still be considered leaps and bounds more morally superior to them we go out of our way to avoid killing civilians even though it would make our the tasks easier where as they intentionally target civilians. We feed and give quarter to captured fighters they behead and tape captured soldiers.
Easy way out LOL I hold myself to my standard and putting fellow citizens and soldiers in harms way to make others feel like we are morally superior to them is far below my standard.

Again, you don't seem to understand... Saying you're better than a murderer because you only beat someone up isn't really being that much better... Sure, you're better, but you're still a scumbag.

I feel sad for your standard because it is completely backwards from the way it should be.

Jesus wept.

[Eyeball Chambers]

Again, you don't seem to understand... Saying you're better than a murderer because you only beat someone up isn't really being that much better... Sure, you're better, but you're still a scumbag.

I feel sad for your standard because it is completely backwards from the way it should be.

Jesus wept.

TOO MUCH COMMON SENSE! 

[tonymctones]

Again, you don't seem to understand... Saying you're better than a murderer because you only beat someone up isn't really being that much better... Sure, you're better, but you're still a scumbag.

I feel sad for your standard because it is completely backwards from the way it should be.

Jesus wept.

again i think you dont understand i dont really care about moral superiority i care about keeping our citizens my family and our soldiers safe whatever that takes. I personally could care less whether we are morally superior to them or not I think its painfully obvious that we are whether we waterboard or not but that my opinion. Simple fact of the matter is we are at war and war is in itself an immoral action.

You can think my standard is backwards thats fine thats what great about this country.

TOO MUCH COMMON SENSE! 

common fuking sense common sense would dictate that if ppl are trying to kill you at all costs you would stop them at all costs including killing them...thats fuking common sense.

[tonymctones]

TOO MUCH COMMON SENSE! 

common sense would dictate that if others life is in danger you do everything you can to save them thats common fuking sense. common sense is not restricting yourself so that you can be all high and mighty and say you are morally superior 

common fuking sense aint that common apparently

[Dos Equis]

You can think my standard is backwards thats fine thats what great about this country.
common fuking sense common sense would dictate that if ppl are trying to kill you at all costs you would stop them at all costs including killing them...thats fuking common sense.

lol.  Truth . . . lol

[tu_holmes]

again i think you dont understand i dont really care about moral superiority i care about keeping our citizens my family and our soldiers safe whatever that takes. I personally could care less whether we are morally superior to them or not I think its painfully obvious that we are whether we waterboard or not but that my opinion. Simple fact of the matter is we are at war and war is in itself an immoral action.

You can think my standard is backwards thats fine thats what great about this country.
common fuking sense common sense would dictate that if ppl are trying to kill you at all costs you would stop them at all costs including killing them...thats fuking common sense.

Are you a christian Tony?

What would Jesus do?

I bet he wouldn't think torture is good.

You have a very warped sense of right and wrong tony... I feel sorry for you.

lol.  Truth . . . lol

And you too beach... There's no common sense anywhere in your statement.

You're chickenhawks apparently.

[Eyeball Chambers]

The new AG should straighten this out.

So far it seems like we have some civilized human beings taking charge. 

The rule of law means something again?

Amazing stuff...

 

[tonymctones]

Are you a christian Tony?

What would Jesus do?

I bet he wouldn't think torture is good.

You have a very warped sense of right and wrong tony... I feel sorry for you.

I have always said that I consider myself a Christian, would you or anybody else consider me a Christian I dont know and personally thats none of my concern.

Jesus wouldnt have gone to war at all so...

I feel sorry for you, your sense of moral superiority will undoubtedly bite you in the ass one day but thats ok you will be able to say you are better then they are.

[Dos Equis]

Are you a christian Tony?

What would Jesus do?

I bet he wouldn't think torture is good.

You have a very warped sense of right and wrong tony... I feel sorry for you.

And you too beach... There's no common sense anywhere in your statement.

You're chickenhawks apparently.

Common sense is exactly what tony said:  if someone is trying to kill you, you kill them first.  

[tu_holmes]

I have always said that I consider myself a Christian, would you or anybody else consider me a Christian I dont know and personally thats none of my concern.

Jesus wouldnt have gone to war at all so...

I feel sorry for you, your sense of moral superiority will undoubtedly bite you in the ass one day but thats ok you will be able to say you are better then they are.

I will, and I feel that if there's a god... he'll undoubtedly choose me over you if this is your stance.

[tonymctones]

I will, and I feel that if there's a god... he'll undoubtedly choose me over you if this is your stance.

LOL you can paint me as a evil evil man and thats fine bro but you know nothing about me.

[tu_holmes]

LOL you can paint me as a evil evil man and thats fine bro but you know nothing about me.

Yet I have learned quite a bit today wouldn't you say?

You'll say I'm naive, and I'll say you're perfectly ok with torture... Works for me.

[tonymctones]

Yet I have learned quite a bit today wouldn't you say?

You'll say I'm naive, and I'll say you're perfectly ok with torture... Works for me.

Im not saying your naive, i have a friend who will feels the way i do on this subject somewhat follows the same line of logic that you have on other subjects and i wouldnt call either one of you naive you believe what you believe due to your religious beliefs and thats fine. Although you are perfectly ok with killing the terrorist but waterboarding is where you draw the line apparently . I personally dont believe that waterboarding is torture in the sense that it is thrown about left and right on this board.

[tu_holmes]

Im not saying your naive, i have a friend who will feels the way i do on this subject somewhat follows the same line of logic that you have on other subjects and i wouldnt call either one of you naive you believe what you believe due to your religious beliefs and thats fine. Although you are perfectly ok with killing the terrorist but waterboarding is where you draw the line apparently . I personally dont believe that waterboarding is torture in the sense that it is thrown about left and right on this board.

I'm not even Christian... I just believe what I believe... I feel it's mental abuse and mental torture... No, it's not physical, but sometimes the most destruction is done to ones mind... Not their body.

If you don't think it's torture, that's fine... but I personally do.

I do think that in times of war, you kill... Punishment should be swift and severe... Waterboarding is not at all swift... Hence why I believe it to be torturous.

[tonymctones]

I'm not even Christian... I just believe what I believe... I feel it's mental abuse and mental torture... No, it's not physical, but sometimes the most destruction is done to ones mind... Not their body.

If you don't think it's torture, that's fine... but I personally do.

I do think that in times of war, you kill... Punishment should be swift and severe... Waterboarding is not at all swift... Hence why I believe it to be torturous.

so its better to just kill them outright then pour water on their heads and let them live?...so you believe sleep deprivation is torture as well then i assume?

you think my views are backwards and like i said thats fine but to me yours are ass backwards.