Ok, Now Where Do They Go?

[The Luke]

well then its fair to assume that he helped plan and carry out multiple attacks on us soldiers then i assume as well.

...are you talking about the kid or the Iraqi doctor?

In neither case does your comment make sense.



The Luke

[tonymctones]

Yes, because of his age.  Because he's a child.  You don't stick him in some prison filled with terrorist.  All you are doing is teaching him to continue to be one.

It's no different than what we would do if an 11 year in the USA killed someone.  You don't stick that kid in San Quinton. 

this isnt the US ozmo if this had happened in the US then fine but this idea that ppl fighting a war against us deserve the same rights as our citizens here at home is just silly should we tax them too.

[tonymctones]

...are you talking about the kid or the Iraqi doctor?

In neither case does your comment make sense.



The Luke

im talking about the kid, you thought it fair to assume your ignorant scenario so why cant i assume mine. Again proof for anything you have said in this thread would be appreciated.

[The Luke]

im talking about the kid, you thought it fair to assume your ignorant scenario so why cant i assume mine. Again proof for anything you have said in this thread would be appreciated.

...so the kid should be tortured the same way that Iraqi doctor was?

You guys don't have a clue what your so-called "War on Terror" entails.


Eventually almost all the guys at Gitmo are going to be declared innocent, released with huge payouts and war crimes trials at the Hague will ensue.

Why do you think Rumsfeld emigrated to Dubai? (No extradition treaty)


The Luke

[tonymctones]

...so the kid should be tortured the same way that Iraqi doctor was?

You guys don't have a clue what your so-called "War on Terror" entails.


Eventually almost all the guys at Gitmo are going to be declared innocent, released with huge payouts and war crimes trials at the Hague will ensue.

Why do you think Rumsfeld emigrated to Dubai? (No extradition treaty)


The Luke

Any proof that either one has been tortured? or is that another the "russians are invading" comment?

[OzmO]

this isnt the US ozmo if this had happened in the US then fine but this idea that ppl fighting a war against us deserve the same rights as our citizens here at home is just silly should we tax them too.

It doesn't matter if he's a citizen or not.  It about doing what's right, It's about doing what's humane.  Citing citizenship is a candy ass excuse.  Isn't our way of life good enough for everyone?  Isn't what we preach something we want everyone to follow?  Treating a child like an animal makes us hypocrites.

It's a fvcking child FFS, NOT OBL

[The Luke]

Any proof that either one has been tortured? or is that another the "russians are invading" comment?

...they made a movie/documentary about the Iraqi doctor. It's called "The prisoner: or how I planned to shoot Tony Blair".


Regarding the Russians comment... I've read that some of the mountain folk living in the more desolate corners of Afghanistan are shooting at American troops because they really do think the American soldiers are actually Russians.


There is too much "Prove it!" on this board from people who shouldn't be asking the better informed to educate them regarding information that is common knowledge.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

It doesn't matter if he's a citizen or not.  It about doing what's right, It's about doing what's humane.  Citing citizenship is a candy ass excuse.  Isn't our way of life good enough for everyone?  Isn't what we preach something we want everyone to follow?  Treating a child like an animal makes us hypocrites.

It's a fvcking child FFS, NOT OBL

our way of life is good enough for everyone but its not for everyone, killing isnt humane are you against that as well? if we caught obl you wouldnt want him killed? Fuck it if its keeping him captive that you dont like put 2 in his head and be done with it. Again im not worried about our moral high ground though its quite clear that we do hold it.

[tonymctones]

...they made a movie/documentary about the Iraqi doctor. It's called "The prisoner: or how I planned to shoot Tony Blair".


Regarding the Russians comment... I've read that some of the mountain folk living in the more desolate corners of Afghanistan are shooting at American troops because they really do think the American soldiers are actually Russians.


There is too much "Prove it!" on this board from people who shouldn't be asking the better informed to educate them regarding information that is common knowledge.


The Luke

LOL so basically you have nothing? hahah better informed LOL maybe we should get hh6 our resident soldier to comment on this im sure his views oppose yours but your right your probably more informed then him

[The Luke]

LOL so basically you have nothing? hahah better informed LOL maybe we should get hh6 our resident soldier to comment on this im sure his views oppose yours but your right your probably more informed then him

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99372849

...this guy is not the only one.



The Luke

[OzmO]

our way of life is good enough for everyone but its not for everyone, killing isnt humane are you against that as well? if we caught obl you wouldnt want him killed? Fuck it if its keeping him captive that you dont like put 2 in his head and be done with it. Again im not worried about our moral high ground though its quite clear that we do hold it.

Again we are talking about an 11 year CHILD and I'm suggesting we practice what we preach WITH children.

OBL?  Is he 11?   

[The Luke]

Here's another:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/01/14/youngdetainee-guantanamo.html?ref=rss
(read to the end of the article)


The Luke

[tonymctones]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99372849

...this guy is not the only one.



The Luke

thats fine if they find him innocent let him go, no where in there did it say he was tortured?

[The Luke]

thats fine if they find him innocent let him go, no where in there did it say he was tortured?

...so he'd be the one guy at Gitmo who hasn't been tortured?

What an ignorant fool you are... read the Red Cross report on Guantanamo before you embarrass yourself any further.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

Again we are talking about an 11 year CHILD and I'm suggesting we practice what we preach WITH children.

OBL?  Is he 11?   

what we preach is for ppl living within the US, even if it did happen in the US he would still be detained.

[tonymctones]

...so he'd be the one guy at Gitmo who hasn't been tortured?

What an ignorant fool you are... read the Red Cross report on Guantanamo before you embarrass yourself any further.


The Luke

plz...everybody that passes through is subject to torture? dont embarrass yourself...LOL

[The Luke]

plz...everybody that passes through is subject to torture? dont embarrass yourself...LOL

Who should I believe... you, some Republican-true-believer internet tool who embarrasses himself with every post he makes on this board, or the Red Cross, who did an investigation into conditions at Gitmo and wrote up a report on the subject?

"tonymctones" you don't even have the decency to apologize when you accuse anyone better informed than you of being a liar when their statements of fact don't agree with your propaganda-informed prejudices. You are routinely owned on this board by your own insistence that links/sources be posted... when most of what you dismiss is merely common knowledge fact.

You, sir, have no credibility.



For the record, most Gitmo detainees have been severely tortured via the mechanism of "extraordinary rendition" BEFORE they ever arrive at Gitmo itself.

Considering the fact that the Red Cross has concluded the very living conditions at Gitmo constitute torture, and the hundreds of "enemy combatants" who have been released thus far due to their being found completely innocent: actual legal findings of innocence, have all claimed they were continuously physically tortured at Guantanamo...

...considering that, I think it is fair to say that everyone at Gitmo has been tortured.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

Who should I believe... you, some Republican-true-believer internet tool who embarrasses himself with every post he makes on this board, or the Red Cross, who did an investigation into conditions at Gitmo and wrote up a report on the subject?

"tonymctones" you don't even have the decency to apologize when you accuse anyone better informed than you of being a liar when their statements of fact don't agree with your propaganda-informed prejudices. You are routinely owned on this board by your own insistence that links/sources be posted... when most of what you dismiss is merely common knowledge fact.

You, sir, have no credibility.



For the record, most Gitmo detainees have been severely tortured via the mechanism of "extraordinary rendition" BEFORE they ever arrive at Gitmo itself.

Considering the fact that the Red Cross has concluded the very living conditions at Gitmo constitute torture, and the hundreds of "enemy combatants" who have been released thus far due to their being found completely innocent: actual legal findings of innocence, have all claimed they were continuously physically tortured at Guantanamo...

...considering that, I think it is fair to say that everyone at Gitmo has been tortured.


The Luke

enough with the novel sized posts with 80 spaces in them alright

What would you expect them to say? most of them dont like the US so you think detainees are going from gitmo are going to come out and be favorable towards the US? LOL if that was the case they probably wouldnt be there in the first place. Second jailing somebody could be deemed torture under the geneva convention so i would like to see this red cross report so plz link me. So your only fact is that b/c of the conditions that gitmo has everyone who passes through is tortured? great logic.

[The Luke]

enough with the novel sized posts with 80 spaces in them alright

What would you expect them to say? most of them dont like the US so you think detainees are going from gitmo are going to come out and be favorable towards the US? LOL if that was the case they probably wouldnt be there in the first place. Second jailing somebody could be deemed torture under the geneva convention so i would like to see this red cross report so plz link me. So your only fact is that b/c of the conditions that gitmo has everyone who passes through is tortured? great logic.

...seems chronic dismissal is a symptom of FOX News brainwashing.

Again, it's not my job to educate you... you don't know you don't know to such an extent, perhaps you should consider reading something.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

...seems chronic dismissal is a symptom of FOX News brainwashing.

Again, it's not my job to educate you... you don't know you don't know to such an extent, perhaps you should consider reading something.


The Luke

"The International Committee of the Red Cross has accused the U.S. military of using tactics "tantamount to torture" on prisoners at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba"

"and issued a formal report in July that said some interrogation tactics come close to torture, a source who has seen portions of the report"

tantamount to torture and close to torture including ""humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, [and] use of forced positions."

LOL im so sorry your where right this ppl have been beaten and raped on a daily basis starved as well.

[240 is Back]

tony,

we're torturing them.  You can justify it, maybe it's right, maybe it's not.  Would I cut a guy up alive if it meant saving American lives? you bet I would.

But when you turn this into an argument with Luke on "are you sure it's really torture?", you get owned badly.

Just admit the conditions do constitute torture, that's okay with you.  Otherwise, you just look like shit here, no offense.

[tonymctones]

tony,

we're torturing them.  You can justify it, maybe it's right, maybe it's not.  Would I cut a guy up alive if it meant saving American lives? you bet I would.

But when you turn this into an argument with Luke on "are you sure it's really torture?", you get owned badly.

Just admit the conditions do constitute torture, that's okay with you.  Otherwise, you just look like shit here, no offense.

shit you could put 2 in every one of their heads and it would be ok with me thats not the issue here though, I suppose we should have addressed this earlier but what constitutes torture is interpreted differently again read the geneva convention as it pertains to torture, seriously keeping somebody in jail could be deemed torture its written in such a broad all encompassing way. I personally dont believe sleep deprevation is torture, water boarding is debateable to me...beatings and rapings and such i would agree are torture the red cross report said nothing about them now im i niave enough to believe that these things dont happen no but are they the standard like luke would have you believe no.

[headhuntersix]

It doesn't matter if he's a citizen or not.  It about doing what's right, It's about doing what's humane.  Citing citizenship is a candy ass excuse.  Isn't our way of life good enough for everyone?  Isn't what we preach something we want everyone to follow?  Treating a child like an animal makes us hypocrites.

It's a fvcking child FFS, NOT OBL

UM NO...but I actually spent 14 months in Afghanistan...all over the country, went to and through numerous villages...nobody thinks we're the Russians. Most Villages have radios where over 90% of the news is transmitted. Most villages have been dropped or given radios by the government. I've been on both radio drops and deliveries. I can't get into every wrong thing u said about Afghanistan, but I hope this is a start.


The conditions at Gitmo are in now way torture...and who the fuck cares anyway. God if any of u had spent a moment in combat, in the twin towers, or any time with these people u'd cook em and eat em instead of defend em.

[The Luke]

"The International Committee of the Red Cross has accused the U.S. military of using tactics "tantamount to torture" on prisoners at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba"

"and issued a formal report in July that said some interrogation tactics come close to torture, a source who has seen portions of the report"

tantamount to torture and close to torture including ""humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, [and] use of forced positions."

LOL im so sorry your where right this ppl have been beaten and raped on a daily basis starved as well.

...that section of the report deals with what the Red Cross was ALLOWED to see.

If the military are okay with the world knowing they are locking people in saunas and refrigerators, then hanging them upside down till their eyes bleed... well then maybe the claims of the guys who have been released might be true. Mightn't they?

Some of the Gitmo detainees who have been released detailed torture tactics that almost exactly mimic the treatment dished out to the detainees at Abu Ghraib.

Would I cut a guy up alive if it meant saving American lives? you bet I would.

..this kind of "Jack Bauer" thinking is the problem. Torture is an affront to human dignity... ALL human dignity. Also, it doesn't work... has never been shown to work... and doesn't yield reliable information when it does seem to work.


Remember, more than half of those sent to Gitmo so far have been released... and it seems only one or two detainees will ever face any charges. It's a witch hunt.

History will remember this bullshit alongside the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials... mass hysteria induced atrocity perpetrated by the brainwashed low-IQ sheeple class.


The Luke

[tonymctones]

...that section of the report deals with what the Red Cross was ALLOWED to see.

If the military are okay with the world knowing they are locking people in saunas and refrigerators, then hanging them upside down till their eyes bleed... well then maybe the claims of the guys who have been released might be true. Mightn't they?

Some of the Gitmo detainees who have been released detailed torture tactics that almost exactly mimic the treatment dished out to the detainees at Abu Ghraib.

The Luke

AHHH so again we are assuming? i assume you have some proof of that or something i can look up to disprove that as well?