11 Dems who voted against Obama

[24KT]

What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?

Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?

What would 2012 look like then?

America will respond like any nation when under attack.
They will circle their wagons, and rally around their President.

look at 911, ...or even Gaza as an example. Attack them, and they will unite.
That's why Pearl Harbor (both of them) worked so well.

[BM OUT]

Bush only met with congressional Dems twice in 8 years - and he NEEDED them some of that time.

Obama met with them in his first week - and he didn't even need their vote.  He took some of their advice, even if they did vote against it.  You *know* a few repubs smiled and said "wow, obama listened to what i said, and changed his bill", even if they did have to vote party line.

Yeah,he met with them and said "I won we are doing it my way".Thats working together.Obama and the democrats call compromise republicans caving to them on every issue.THATS working across the aisle to them.

[Straw Man]

Yeah,he met with them and said "I won we are doing it my way".Thats working together.Obama and the democrats call compromise republicans caving to them on every issue.THATS working across the aisle to them.

he did a lot more than that as I'm sure you know

he's already made more of an effort in 1 week than Bush did in 8 years

[tonymctones]

again i dont know why some ppl think that by the dems cutting money earmarked for contraceptives and money ear marked for resawding a lawn of a mall is compromising with the reps. LOL thats bipartisanship hahaha that shit shouldnt have been in there in the first place.

[shootfighter1]

Well, that ends our discussion then.  Thats like me linking you to Rush...too partisan.

[Straw Man]

Well, that ends our discussion then.  Thats like me linking you to Rush...too partisan.

Did you even watch the link.  She's talks with a Republican who voted against the stimulus package.


and Maddow is in no way an analog on to the left to Rush on the far (and ridiculous) right

[shootfighter1]

Maddow is as liberal as they come...and Rush is as conservative as they come...she just smiles.

I don't need to watch her, I have a good idea of what is going on based on spending hours on this stuff the past week.

[Straw Man]

Maddow is as liberal as they come...and Rush is as conservative as they come...she just smiles.

I don't need to watch her, I have a good idea of what is going on based on spending hours on this stuff the past week.

whatever - I just didn't feel like typing and she hits most of the issue and the republican congressman she talks with hits most of their issues.

pretty much the same stuff we've already gone over in this thread.

[Soul Crusher]

whatever - I just didn't feel like typing and she hits most of the issue and the republican congressman she talks with hits most of their issues.

pretty much the same stuff we've already gone over in this thread.

She takes her job seriously.  Olbermann is just a sham, a fraud, and a joke. 

[BM OUT]

he did a lot more than that as I'm sure you know

he's already made more of an effort in 1 week than Bush did in 8 years

What concessions did he make?Are you kidding me?"I won we will do it my way".tax breaks for illegals?billions for the parks department which happens to employ a democrat congressmans kid?He wouldnt agree to ONE tax cut for buisiness.This bill was written by the totally incompetant Nany "stretch" Pelosi.It was NOT a stimulous package it was just another democratic spending package full of crap and wasting our money.Bush went at it alone and got the blame.Now Obama can do the same.

[tonymctones]

What concessions did he make?Are you kidding me?"I won we will do it my way".tax breaks for illegals?billions for the parks department which happens to employ a democrat congressmans kid?He wouldnt agree to ONE tax cut for buisiness.This bill was written by the totally incompetant Nany "stretch" Pelosi.It was NOT a stimulous package it was just another democratic spending package full of crap and wasting our money.Bush went at it alone and got the blame.Now Obama can do the same.

exactly they conceded the money for contraceptives and the money for the resawding of a mall lawn...THESE THING SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN IN A STIMULUS BILL IN THE FIRST PLACE. what else other then that have they conceded?

[Straw Man]

At this point I couldn't care less

Let's just get this stimulation started and see what happens

I'm more interested in seeing if Rove show's up to testify on Monday

[shootfighter1]

Hey man, I appreciate the debate.  I just feel strongly on this issue.  Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now.  knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.

[24KT]

Hey man, I appreciate the debate.  I just feel strongly on this issue.  Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now.  knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.

Maybe you should have watched the link.

Personally, I think Obama made a stupid move, because the concessions he "added" to the bill, will do much less to stimulate the economy than many of the things he took out. Including provisions for transit in Chicago which would not only have stimulated job creation in Chicago, but also in Minnesota. I can see why some democrats may be a little bit peeved at the President right now.

[Dos Equis]

Zero Republican support?  Not a good start.

[24KT]

Zero Republican support?  Not a good start.

Especially when all it served to do was water down the potency of the stimulus package.

The Dems have what it takes to turn this around without the Republicans, so the Republicans had better get on board with the program if they expect to gain any seats in 2010

[Grape Ape]

Zero Republican support?  Not a good start.

Line in the sand time.  Once this bloated welfare package fails, the Republicans will have established a new base to build off of.

[Straw Man]

Hey man, I appreciate the debate.  I just feel strongly on this issue.  Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now.  knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.

yeah - I appreciate the debate too.  I'm just tired today.

[shootfighter1]

I highly suggest looking at some porn and going to an all you can eat buffet then...usually works for me.

[shootfighter1]

Jag, we've nearly spent the 700 billion dollars with the initial bailouts.  This plan is another 820-1 trillion of money that we also have to borrow.  Our government, on both sides, is now accustomed to over-spending and deficit spending.  Its an institutional problem.  The amount of interest on our national debt will be incredibly large after this.  We are digging a deeper hole instead of addressing the problem's roots.  We're also dooming our children to paying off our debt and with the trend of the US slipping economically, I don't know if we can ever recover.

[240 is Back]

Line in the sand time.  Once this bloated welfare package fails, the Republicans will have established a new base to build off of.

Correct.

Unless the economy improves.

Then, the dems will point at the one thing they did, the change in economy, and take full credit.

IF IF IF this bailout works, it'll be iraq Vote II for these Repub senators.

[Grape Ape]

Correct.

Unless the economy improves.

Then, the dems will point at the one thing they did, the change in economy, and take full credit.

IF IF IF this bailout works, it'll be iraq Vote II for these Repub senators.

Exactly.  It's a calculated risk, but I think it has a high probability of succeeding.  The Iraqi II analogy is a good one.

[Eric2]

Throwing $$$$ at this problem will only delay the inevitable. If a big company fails..........let it. It failed for a reason, poor management, missuse of budget, whatever it is it's internal to the company. Giving them $$$ is not going to change there method of madness.
   The only way real change for the good will happen is when people hurt, hurt in their own pockets. If you do not have the $$$ for it( other than a house) do not buy it!!! People live way to close to each paycheck and yet still have a ton of electrical shit either that which they carry or have in their homes. People have cars they cannot afford. Rule of thumb when buying a car.........if it costs more than 4 months of your annual income your spending to much.
   Big corp. is the same, they built way to many cars that where gas hogs. People are not going to buy them when the price of fuel goes up, but they just kept making the damn things.

[24KT]

Jag, we've nearly spent the 700 billion dollars with the initial bailouts.  This plan is another 820-1 trillion of money that we also have to borrow.  Our government, on both sides, is now accustomed to over-spending and deficit spending.  Its an institutional problem.  The amount of interest on our national debt will be incredibly large after this.  We are digging a deeper hole instead of addressing the problem's roots.  We're also dooming our children to paying off our debt and with the trend of the US slipping economically, I don't know if we can ever recover.

I understand what you're saying. That's why I think the Republican suggestions for tax cuts were stupid inclusions for the stimulus package. If you're going to go into long term debt that will be incurred by multiple generations, ...there should be long term benefit, gained by multiple generations. That's why I believe more of that package should have been for infrastructure improvement, and not tax cuts. every dollar spent in infrastructure puts another $1.59 or so back into the economy, ...whereas every dollar spent on a tax cut puts maybe $.30, ...provided the tax cut is even spent.

[BM OUT]

I understand what you're saying. That's why I think the Republican suggestions for tax cuts were stupid inclusions for the stimulus package. If you're going to go into long term debt that will be incurred by multiple generations, ...there should be long term benefit, gained by multiple generations. That's why I believe more of that package should have been for infrastructure improvement, and not tax cuts. every dollar spent in infrastructure puts another $1.59 or so back into the economy, ...whereas every dollar spent on a tax cut puts maybe $.30, ...provided the tax cut is even spent.

Tax cuts for buisiness allow them to expand.That means more jobs.I wish they would scrap ALL corporate taxes.Our tax base would be through the freaking roof.Our country punnishes buisiness and thats why they go elsewhere.