how weak does AAS make your tendons?

[upjacked]

Lee Priest tore his bicep carrying a flat screen tv.
Branch Warren tore his tricep falling down the stairs.
people keep tearing their pec and these days -- their lats.
I thought you AAS users said that steroids makes you stronger?
it's just an illusion.
in reality -- it makes you weaker than a drug free person -- to the point where carrying a tv will tear your bicep.

[spinnis]

It doesnt make anything Weaker.

It makes you Stronger..

get it?

[bigbobs]

Nasser addressed this earlier in a classic, informative post:

A few guys were discussing on my last thread why guys like Nasser and King lose the edge at a younger age compared to some of their peers. I asked Nasser for his view.

D


Here it is....Nassers answer:

Iranian born King Kamali moved at a young age to Western Europe and from there to the East Coast, USA. He won the Nationals Heavyweight division in October 1999 and turned pro. However Kamali did not win the Overall NPC title. Aaron Madron did. But again, in contrast to Aaron, Kamali showed more longevity and is still competing (as of the year 2008) and he has also competed in several Olympia contests. Personally I think that Kamali is a good bodybuilder but he became less so over the last couple of years. I also think this will continue into the future. He reached his peak some years ago. I can see this tendency in many bodybuilders.

At the beginning of the Amateur phase, everyone improves. Then with greater workouts, more muscle maturity, more discipline and more ambition, there is another phase of improvement, which is often rewarded with a pro card. From that point on, however, some people reach their potential like, for example, "drug free" Hawaiian Chris Faildo, welterweight and overall winner of the 2007 Team Universe, for whom it would have been a catastrophic mistake to enter the pro ranks, because there he would be, simply speaking, a nobody. The same also counts also for "drug free" Skip LaCour, overall Team Universe winner for 2002.

After their bodies peak, many guys begin stagnating physically, then they begin going slowly but surely, and sometimes faster, downhill. The descent is unstoppable.

I can name so many high caliber people it happened to: Arnold Schwarzenegger (former Mr. O and undeserved 1980 Mr. O winner), Samir Bannout (former Mr. O), or former Mr. O runner-up Ricardo Gaspari, known as the " Dragon killer ", or Dorian Yates’ descent in his last three out of six Mr. O wins. And the same happened to Ronnie Coleman in his last two Mr. O competitions (in 2006 and 2007). And now I see the exact same descending tendency in the reigning Mr. O, Jay Cutler, who seems to be increasingly coming in at less than his best shape. And this tendency was also reflected by my own physique in my last couple of shows.

The reason for the physical descent of former good or great physiques can have one specific reason or can be the result of a syndrome, if you will a combination of the following points:

1. The body is no longer responsive to anabolic steroids – the response has declined due to long-term (many years of) use. One of the very first prime examples from my personal observation would be Ricardo Gaspari).

2. The bodybuilder has simply had enough of the injustices committed by the judging panel, due to whatever reason.

3. The bodybuilder developed a dependency on recreational drugs which:
a. Made him mentally, psychologically and physically weaker in the long run, or
b. The recreational drugs caused multiple tears (as I do assume happened to characters like Dorian Yates).

4. The regular ageing process, which can make the bodybuilder lazier and also physically weaker.

5. The bodybuilder is mentally and psychologically burnt out from training, dieting, and competing, which can cause
a. A general lack of motivation and ambition due to injustices committed by the judging panel
b. External injury or injuries because of the "wear and tear" over many years.
c. A lack of caution while handling (heavy) weights, which can also cause muscle tears.

6. The body builder has experienced private turmoil, such as:
a. A split or divorce from his or her partner, and with this less support is available in many aspects.
b. Incarceration.
c. Dysfunctional lifestyle due to dysfunctional relationships.
d. An accident.

7. The bodybuilder has less money available for food, anabolic steroids and not enough money just for daily life due to:
a. Cancellation of his or her contract.
b. An expanding family (kids or additional kids).
8. The more genetically gifted bodybuilders have hit the pro ranks and the former great bodybuilder has now lost the edge.

9. Other priorities take over, such as:
a. Additional or better business adventures/opportunities.
b. Family / family issues
c. Different influences for different people – e.g.: sects/cults/religion.

10. Illness can be a huge factor as well:
a. The body becomes insulin resistant due to years of drug abuse or otherwise.
b. Cancer, leukaemia, kidney dysfunction and many other illnesses, diseases and conditions like:
- Alcoholism.
- Cardiovascular problems.
- Nerve damage.

I leave it up to the reader to form his or her own thesis regarding what happened to who and why.
In (Shahriar) Kamali’s case, however, I would say that his placements over the last couple of years were worse than before because of his body was “maxed-out" (point 1.)
Also point 10. a seems to be a factor from my point of view.

Kamali’s smack talk towards guys like the Chihuahua, Craig Titus and many others gave and are giving him just more fuel to stay in pro bodybuilding. Also it is quite entertaining to hear him talking. And I do not mean this in an ironic way at all.
I do think that ecstasy-loving party-animal King is also a hard training person and an intelligent man with a great sense of humour.

[CAPTAIN INSANO]

it makes your muscles stronger and able to handle heavier weights -- makes your tendons weaker/don't grow as strong as your muscles
and as a result tear.

 Unless you are running a little bit of Deca, a tear is less likely to happen.

Just train smart.

[spinnis]

it makes your muscles stronger and able to handle heavier weights -- makes your tendons weaker/don't grow as strong as your muscles
and as a result tear.

is doesnt make it weaker, you just handle more weight then you shouldn't be able to handle.

[CAPTAIN INSANO]

whose quads are in your avatar?

Branch Warren

[Van_Bilderass]

is doesnt make it weaker, you just handle more weight then you shouldn't be able to handle.

They can lead to a stiffer tendon that fails at less elongation. At least according to animal research.

[Meso_z]

Nasser addressed this earlier in a classic, informative post:

Great post by Nasser.

[honest]

High levels of Test or any AAS over a pro longed period change the actual make up of your tendons, they lose their elasticity, it has been proven in a study somewhere where doses over 200mgs per week have a negative impact on tendons.  A long cycle on  no more than 200mg of deca weekly and if you can afford it a few ius of genuine hgh daily will help rehabilitate tendons, i have used this form of rehabilitation myself and found it has worked and the instance of me getting recurring tendon type injuries has stopped, i did however stay on the above for 6 months straight and have not ventured over the 200mg mark of test a week since i stopped, as i only use HRT these days as I'm not competitive anymore, recreational drugs dehydrate you, which will make you more prone to injury, if you use them make sure to rehydrate before training heavy again, training heavy whilst dehydrated is just asking for trouble.

[chainsaw]

AAS does not build tendon and ligament, or affect them at all.
But when you get stronger, you're tendons and ligaments
cant grow as fast, so you get tendonitis and/or tears.l

And that is exactly how it is.

[The Luke]

Chronic OVER-TRAINING causes muscle tears.

These guys are so mega-dosed on steroids and plain test that they feel no joint pain, don't really need to recover and think they are invincible. These guys never make any real progress, they just increase their dosage. Admittedly, todays bodybuilders are literally behemoths of solid muscle... but are they really as big as they could be considering what they take?  

Just take Dorian and Ronnie as examples. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that no one can continuously train in a ballistic manner with sloppy form and continuously escalating weights without something giving out. Both of these guys tore multiple muscles slinging around weights they couldn't handle.

Now every gym in the world is filled with 150 lb newbies attempting to T-bar row weights they couldn't deadlift (with form straight out of Ronnie's videos); partial shrugging three times more than they can squat (with the mandatory superfluous ineffectual shoulder roll); partial squatting; partial benching; heaving cable rows using the legs and lower back etc etc.

Even on this board you have morons who believe that they can row three plates (Adonis? Kiwiol?)... yet Arnold only ever rowed two plates.

Remember Ron Harris/Pazuzu's atrocious youtube videos...? Since when does poking your head forward count as being "bent-over"?

Can you remember the last time you saw someone row bent over at 90 degrees pulling to their lower abs...?

Can you remember the last time you saw lats comparable in size to the pecs?


Train less, stop the ego lifting and stop over-training... that way you'll never outgrow your tendon capacity.


The Luke

[chainsaw]

Moderate AAS use with just a little strength increase
Can csuse tendonitis, as well as tears if you're not
intouch with you're bodyl

[Van_Bilderass]

Just take Dorian and Ronnie as examples. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that no one can continuously train in a ballistic manner with sloppy form and continuously escalating weights without something giving out. Both of these guys tore multiple muscles slinging around weights they couldn't handle.

Dorian seemed to train in a very strict manner, without much momentum. He actually mentions this in his video... that he doesn't want momentum to take over. He trained fairly low volume and infrequently too.

[CAPTAIN INSANO]

Chronic OVER-TRAINING causes muscle tears.

These guys are so mega-dosed on steroids and plain test that they feel no joint pain, don't really need to recover and think they are invincible. These guys never make any real progress, they just increase their dosage. Admittedly, todays bodybuilders are literally behemoths of solid muscle... but are they really as big as they could be considering what they take?  

Just take Dorian and Ronnie as examples. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that no one can continuously train in a ballistic manner with sloppy form and continuously escalating weights without something giving out. Both of these guys tore multiple muscles slinging around weights they couldn't handle.

Now every gym in the world is filled with 150 lb newbies attempting to T-bar row weights they couldn't deadlift (with form straight out of Ronnie's videos); partial shrugging three times more than they can squat (with the mandatory superfluous ineffectual shoulder roll); partial squatting; partial benching; heaving cable rows using the legs and lower back etc etc.

Even on this board you have morons who believe that they can row three plates (Adonis? Kiwiol?)... yet Arnold only ever rowed two plates.

Remember Ron Harris/Pazuzu's atrocious youtube videos...? Since when does poking your head forward count as being "bent-over"?

Can you remember the last time you saw someone row bent over at 90 degrees pulling to their lower abs...?

Can you remember the last time you saw lats comparable in size to the pecs?


Train less, stop the ego lifting and stop over-training... that way you'll never outgrow your tendon capacity.


The Luke

Great Post.

[The Luke]

Dorian seemed to train in a very strict manner, without much momentum. He actually mentions this in his video... that he doesn't want momentum to take over. He trained fairly low volume and infrequently too.

Have you seen the row form in his video...?

Most of his lifts are pretty ballistic; lots of yanking and heaving.


The Luke

[Emmortal]

Dorian seemed to train in a very strict manner, without much momentum. He actually mentions this in his video... that he doesn't want momentum to take over. He trained fairly low volume and infrequently too.

He also stated all of his injuries were when dieting for the Olympia and going all out when he should have been backing off.  I don't think it's a question of form, more so a question of being smart, at least in Yates' case.

[Van_Bilderass]

Have you seen the row form in his video...?

Most of his lifts are pretty ballistic; lots of yanking and heaving.


The Luke

Compared to any other pro bodybuilder, or any athlete doing weight training, it was very strict. Do you have an example of a bb who you think trains strictly?

 

[delta9mda]

it makes your muscles stronger and able to handle heavier weights -- makes your tendons weaker/don't grow as strong as your muscles
and as a result tear.

not really correct. there are muscle tears and there are tendon tears. explain how a tendon that is not getting stronger does not tear while the "getting stronger" muscle does tear. yates biceps tear was the muscle. yates triceps tear was a tendon.

[The Luke]

He also stated all of his injuries were when dieting for the Olympia and going all out when he should have been backing off.  I don't think it's a question of form, more so a question of being smart, at least in Yates' case.

By definition, this IS a question of form.

Anybody who has been training for a while knows that lifting perfectly: no momentum; proper form and using only muscular strength... means using weights far lighter than those that tear tendons.

Everything else is ego lifting. Plain and simple.

For example, I can probably squat 405 lbs (four plates) for a couple of reps... but I don't. I squat 315 lbs (three plates), squatting all the way down (ass-to-grass) with a momentary pause at the bottom (to eliminate momentum) for eight to ten reps.

Guess how many injuries I've had in my 19 years of lifting...?

Yep, none. Not even a twinge... and for the past year I've been squatting three and deadlifting four plates for reps back-to-back (at the end of every workout) twice a week.


The Luke

[240 is Back]

Compared to any other pro bodybuilder, or any athlete doing weight training, it was very strict. Do you have an example of a bb who you think trains strictly?

Bob paris was known for his perfect posture in the gym.  Exact form, 100% of the time.  Even standing around, he did it perfectly square.

[Van_Bilderass]

Everything else is ego lifting. Plain and simple.

Somewhat explosive training will load the muscle more though. For example using the stretch reflex to get a stronger contraction (means heavier loads too of course). Super slow training protocols aren't as effective as explosive positive and controlled negative protocols for hypertrophy IMO.

Just imagine the mechanical strain on Ronnie's quads when he did those bouncing front squats. Effective for size but dangerous as hell too.

[The Showstoppa]

It makes them so weak that a slight breeze can cause you to separate a shoulder.  Please, for the kids, don't use them.

[The Luke]

Somewhat explosive training will load the muscle more though. For example using the stretch reflex to get a stronger contraction (means heavier loads too of course). Super slow training protocols aren't as effective as explosive positive and controlled negative protocols for hypertrophy IMO.

Just imagine the mechanical strain on Ronnie's quads when he did those bouncing front squats. Effective for size but dangerous as hell too.

...good point.

I'm not advocating super-slow, just denouncing the bounce-yank-heave training methodology.


The Luke

[delta9mda]

Have you seen the row form in his video...?

Most of his lifts are pretty ballistic; lots of yanking and heaving.


The Luke

no luke you are wrong. there is no swinging or momentum or any slop in yates lifts. get over it dont hate.

[The Luke]

no luke you are wrong. there is no swinging or momentum or any slop in yates lifts. get over it dont hate.

Youtube some of the training footage.


The Luke