Author Topic: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you  (Read 8947 times)

tonymctones

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2009, 06:42:00 PM »
wow i just watched the second video and this guy is even a bigger retard then i first thought...he first says that the big bang and evolution are synomous with one another which is just ignorant. Also believes the earth is 6000 yrs old b/c of population ignores factors that restricted population in the past I.E. malthus's research.

Nothing will ever change this guys mind b/c the "past is in the past and isnt testable"  ::)


Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2009, 06:01:38 AM »
wow, good post.  most miss this simple point or just flat out ignore it.  For these guys to show a monkey and say evolution says we came from a monkey isn't correct at all.

At one point one of our ancestors was a monkey, and at another point it was an ape like creature which recently branched into us and other closely related hominids and chimpanzees.

Humans have relatively little genetic diversity which leads you to believe recently in our history our populations was dangerously low. It is a fact that all living humans share a single most recent common ancestor; "Mitochondrial Eve".

From wikipedia:

Quote
Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who is defined as the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all currently living humans. Passed down from mother to offspring, her mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is now found in all living humans: every mtDNA in every living person is derived from hers. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor, although they lived at different times.

She is believed to have lived about 140,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania.

Mitochondrial Eve is the MRCA of all humans via the mitochondrial DNA pathway, not the unqualified MRCA of all humanity. All living humans can trace their ancestry back to the MRCA via at least one of their parents, but Mitochondrial Eve is defined via the maternal line. Therefore, she necessarily lived at least as long, though likely much longer, ago than the MRCA of all humanity.
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tonymctones

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2009, 07:10:15 AM »
At one point one of our ancestors was a monkey, and at another point it was an ape like creature which recently branched into us and other closely related hominids and chimpanzees.

Humans have relatively little genetic diversity which leads you to believe recently in our history our populations was dangerously low. It is a fact that all living humans share a single most recent common ancestor; "Mitochondrial Eve".

From wikipedia:

we were never monkeys nor apes we have a common ancestor that may have looked like a monkey/ape but taxonomically where not monkeys or apes, we as homo sapiens didnt spawn from monkeys or apes in the evolution context.

Mitochondrial eve is still debated or was at least when i took my last anthropology class.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2009, 08:26:56 AM »
we were never monkeys nor apes we have a common ancestor that may have looked like a monkey/ape but taxonomically where not monkeys or apes, we as homo sapiens didnt spawn from monkeys or apes in the evolution context.

Mitochondrial eve is still debated or was at least when i took my last anthropology class.

Well we had a monkey-like ancestor that would indistinguishable from a monkey. We certainly have been and are apes.
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loco

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2009, 08:34:34 AM »
God is also making a monkey out of us as our DNA 98% the same.

Physically we are as about as unique as a 2008 BMW is to a 2009 BMW.

No, it isn't.  Human DNA and monkey DNA is not 98% the same.

loco

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2009, 08:36:37 AM »
Well we had a monkey-like ancestor that would indistinguishable from a monkey. We certainly have been and are apes.

The problem is that many people think that Chimpanzees are monkeys.

OzmO

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2009, 08:38:20 AM »
No, it isn't.  Human DNA and monkey DNA is not 98% the same.


Ape then  :)

loco

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2009, 08:43:39 AM »
Ape then  :)

Not all apes, but yeah, Chimpanzees are apes and monkeys are not.   :)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2009, 10:17:11 AM »
Well we had a monkey-like ancestor that would indistinguishable from a monkey. We certainly have been and are apes.
I think you're missing the basic point there nordic

Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2009, 12:30:08 PM »
I think you're missing the basic point there nordic

Which is? Under all known taxonomy of today our common ancestor with monkeys would be classified as a monkey. We have ancestors that were apes, and we very much still are apes.
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OzmO

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2009, 12:42:17 PM »
Not all apes, but yeah, Chimpanzees are apes and monkeys are not.   :)

Thanks.   :)

tonymctones

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2009, 01:41:56 PM »
Which is? Under all known taxonomy of today our common ancestor with monkeys would be classified as a monkey. We have ancestors that were apes, and we very much still are apes.
taxonomically they wouldnt be the same species so to say we evolved from monkeys or apes is inaccurate...maybe is a difference in definitions of apes and monkeys. I understand what your saying but to say that we as humans derived from modern day monkeys or gorillas or another ape is inaccurate we have a common ancestor they are brothers to us not fathers phylogenically speaking.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2009, 04:19:07 AM »
taxonomically they wouldnt be the same species so to say we evolved from monkeys or apes is inaccurate...maybe is a difference in definitions of apes and monkeys. I understand what your saying but to say that we as humans derived from modern day monkeys or gorillas or another ape is inaccurate we have a common ancestor they are brothers to us not fathers phylogenically speaking.

Taxonomically they would be MONKEYS. Humans evolved very recently. To say we evolved from what would taxonomically be known as a monkey is a fact, as is humans being apes.

I never once said we evolved from monkeys that exist today. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees however which was an ape as are we.
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tonymctones

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2009, 08:10:57 AM »
Taxonomically they would be MONKEYS. Humans evolved very recently. To say we evolved from what would taxonomically be known as a monkey is a fact, as is humans being apes.

I never once said we evolved from monkeys that exist today. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees however which was an ape as are we.
i think thats the problem, you hear ppl say "ive never seen a monkey turn into a man" but they dont understand that evolution doesnt state that we as men evolved from modern day monkeys or apes only that we have a recent common ancestor thats what i was trying to point out.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2009, 11:42:26 PM »
I have an irresistible urge to bust that kid's nose in the above video.

Breakin the Law? Breaking the Law ;D

HAHA
S

Naked4Jesus

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2009, 11:06:20 AM »

Government_Controlled

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2009, 11:46:49 PM »
This really makes me doubt evolution, that is, why is evolution not occurring now?...Man and other creatures seem to have stopped evolving...Did evolution run out?...Or is there evidence that man is evolving in to some other life form?


GC

Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2009, 09:06:30 AM »
This really makes me doubt evolution, that is, why is evolution not occurring now?...Man and other creatures seem to have stopped evolving...Did evolution run out?...Or is there evidence that man is evolving in to some other life form?


GC

Are you serious? The amount of time for the evolution of man is was 6 billion years, organisms are still evolving to this day but except for some primitive life forms the process is way to slow from a Human perspective to notice the changes. The time scales we are talking about are huge, a single lifetime is nothing.
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liberalismo

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2009, 09:43:12 AM »
This really makes me doubt evolution, that is, why is evolution not occurring now?...Man and other creatures seem to have stopped evolving...Did evolution run out?...Or is there evidence that man is evolving in to some other life form?


GC


WRONG.

Evolution can't be seen in every day life unless you pay CLOSE attention. For animals like humans, it takes THOUSANDS of years to see any real differences.
It's not something you see in a lifetime.
Haha.


But if you have a good microscope and a lot of time on your hands, you can observe various changes in really quickly multiplying creatures like bacteria or even fruit flies.



Are humans evolving right now? I don't know. Probably. Remember that there needs to be "natural selection" where as some people have more babies than others and over time those types of people exist more.

One hypothesis:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1597642154209383351



Remember, Evolution doesn't always mean "bigger, faster, stronger, smarter". It's all about who has more babies.

If, in our society, the strong, fast, intelligent and healthy people have less babies than the stupid, weak, lazy and ignorant people then in the future there will be more stupid,weak, lazy ignorant people in the world.

Government_Controlled

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2009, 07:25:13 PM »

WRONG.

Hey my friend, I'm new here...I don't mind discussing this with u guys, however, I prefer to keep it civil...I'm like everybody else...Really would like to get to the bottom of it, the truth...Doesn't matter to me who is right or wrong...I just want the truth...

Quote

Evolution can't be seen in every day life unless you pay CLOSE attention. For animals like humans, it takes THOUSANDS of years to see any real differences.
It's not something you see in a lifetime.

I hear ya on that, however, isn't there thousands of fossil records on hand that date way back, perhaps, thousands of years?. Here's an interesting statement made by Francis Hitching “In three crucial areas where [the modern evolution theory] can be tested, it has failed: The fossil record reveals a pattern of evolutionary leaps rather than gradual change.Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to prevent new forms evolving. Random step-by-step mutations at the molecular level cannot explain the organized and growing complexity of life.”

Quote
But if you have a good microscope and a lot of time on your hands, you can observe various changes in really quickly multiplying creatures like bacteria or even fruit flies.

Is there any evidence in these observations that indicate one kind transforming into a completely different kind?

Quote
If, in our society, the strong, fast, intelligent and healthy people have less babies than the stupid, weak, lazy and ignorant people then in the future there will be more stupid,weak, lazy ignorant people in the world.

It seems like if that were to be the scenario, Darwin's speculation of "the fittest survive" would not work?...







Government_Controlled

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2009, 07:30:05 PM »
Are you serious?

*LOL*...I'm trying to be my friend...

Quote
The amount of time for the evolution of man is was 6 billion years, organisms are still evolving to this day but except for some primitive life forms the process is way to slow from a Human perspective to notice the changes. The time scales we are talking about are huge, a single lifetime is nothing.


I've never been able to find where it is stated as fact that human evolution took 6 billion years...do u have the evidence of that...I'm not second guessing, just would like to see the evidence...



GC

tonymctones

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2009, 07:39:01 PM »
I hear ya on that, however, isn't there thousands of fossil records on hand that date way back, perhaps, thousands of years?. Here's an interesting statement made by Francis Hitching “In three crucial areas where [the modern evolution theory] can be tested, it has failed: The fossil record reveals a pattern of evolutionary leaps rather than gradual change.Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to prevent new forms evolving. Random step-by-step mutations at the molecular level cannot explain the organized and growing complexity of life.”

Is there any evidence in these observations that indicate one kind transforming into a completely different kind?

It seems like if that were to be the scenario, Darwin's speculation of "the fittest survive" would not work?...
Actually if you look at the fossil records there is a fairly clear progression from earlier ancestors to our current form. Its not like you see a clear cut transformation but you see one form and then you find another form that is slightly like the last but a tad bit different and determined to be younger what do you suppose happend? LOL its clear from fossil records that we have evolved over thousands of years nordic was trying to say that everything has evolved from the past 6 billion years, humans as what would be classified as humans have only been around for i believe about 250,000 yrs.

In all reasonable likelihood you wouldnt really see a change from one to another in the course of our lifetime. Heres the deal you always see those anti bacterial soap commercials that say kills "99.9" percent of bacteria well that .01 percent lives on and will reproduce sooner or later creating a form of bacteria resistent to that soap...EVOLUTION.

Survival of the fitest doesnt mean the fastest, strongest, smartest...it means the most fit to survive in that atmosphere. If it gets really cold fatter ppl will probably suvive and breed more then skinny ppl so in that atmosphere fat ppl would be the fittest.

liberalismo

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2009, 07:42:52 PM »
I hear ya on that, however, isn't there thousands of fossil records on hand that date way back, perhaps, thousands of years?


There are fossils dating back hundreds of millions of years. Some even over a billion years.



Here's an interesting statement made by Francis Hitching “In three crucial areas where [the modern evolution theory] can be tested, it has failed: The fossil record reveals a pattern of evolutionary leaps rather than gradual change.


You're talking about "Phyletic gradualism" vs. "Punctuated equilibrium". Evolution can change speeds depending on the rate of mutation and the amount of natural selection occurring.
Example: The Cambrian explosion.

Evolutionary theory doesn't state that all evolution occurs at the same gradual rate. This is an outdated concept that even Darwin didn't agree with. In short: A strawman.


But either way, Evolution occurring gradually or evolution occurring every now and then in leaps and bounds is evolution.


Genes are a powerful stabilizing mechanism whose main function is to prevent new forms evolving.


Yes and No. DNA does have built in error correction functions that work to fix mutations as they occur, but this isn't 100% reliable and only really serves to "smooth over" mutations leaving changes still in the DNA. Mutations occur, this is a proven fact. Most mutations have no real effect, some are dangerous but some are beneficial. The beneficial mutations are more likely to spread through a population, and thus evolution.


Random step-by-step mutations at the molecular level cannot explain the organized and growing complexity of life.”[/i]


Yes it can.

Simple as that. In fact, nothing BUT random mutations naturally selected can explain the complexity of life.



Is there any evidence in these observations that indicate one kind transforming into a completely different kind?

Define "kind".

This word "kind" is a weasel word used by creationists because it's used in the King James version of genesis. Scientists don't use the word "kind" to classify species.

There is plenty of examples of direct observation of "speciation", One species changing into another species through evolution (or through artificial selection such as in lifestock or pets).

There are also plenty of examples of indirect observations of change occurring above the genus, family, class and even phylum and above in the fossil record.



It seems like if that were to be the scenario, Darwin's speculation of "the fittest survive" would not work?...




You're confused.

The term "fittest" doesn't mean fittest like people use it today. "Fittest" simply means the individual capable of producing the most offspring. A super strong, intelligent, fast and handsome man who has defects to his reproductive organs making him impotent is not the "fittest" in an evolutionary sense simply because he can't reproduce.

In some situations being strong and smart and fast would help in reproduction, but in some other situations it doesn't help at all and might even hurt. For instance, studies have proven that people who are more intelligent tend to have less sex and produce less offspring, and the more intelligent people are the less offspring they produce.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Evolution wants to make a monkey out of you
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2009, 12:59:52 AM »
*LOL*...I'm trying to be my friend...


I've never been able to find where it is stated as fact that human evolution took 6 billion years...do u have the evidence of that...I'm not second guessing, just would like to see the evidence...



GC

Well, the earth is 4.5 bil years old so yes the figure is wrong (I was thinking of human population I think). The first organism probably existed 3 billion years ago, so through the evolutionary pathway we have come through it has took 3 billion years.
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