Romney's take on the stimulus plan - CNN

[shootfighter1]

Thanks for posting those straw.  It has been difficult to find what was cut this week.  Glad they partially cut many of those items but its appauling Pelosi and company tried to put that crap in there in the first place.  Very hard to argue any of that should be in an emergency economic bill.  I still disagree with much of the bill.  We will be passing nearly 1.6 trillion dollars of stimulus in 6 months total.  That is not considering interest either.  No one discusses the impact on debt and interest payments as a portion of GDP.  This gets us farther from the ultimate goal of reigning in government spending overall (I don't care if its repub or democrat...we have allowed our gov to spend way too much of our money).

[Soul Crusher]

Krugman did not predict this disaster the way Schiff and Roubini did.  They were spot on on this, Krugman was not.

Thus, I will take their take on this as probably more correct than his.

BTW- Yasser Arafat and Al Gore also won the noble prize. 

[Straw Man]

Krugman did not predict this disaster the way Schiff and Roubini did.  They were spot on on this, Krugman was not.

Thus, I will take their take on this as probably more correct than his.

BTW- Yasser Arafat and Al Gore also won the noble prize. 

Krugman addresses each argument from the right and explains what went wrong in the efforts of Japan in the 90's and the US in the 30's. 

The current Repubs in Washington pretty much have only one answer - tax cuts.  Tax cuts give you the least bang for your buck and take a long time to kick in. 

[Soul Crusher]

Krugman addresses each argument from the right and explains what went wrong in the efforts of Japan in the 90's and the US in the 30's. 

The current Repubs in Washington pretty much have only one answer - tax cuts.  Tax cuts give you the least bang for your buck and take a long time to kick in. 

Ok. lets do this again.

Krugamn did not even see this coming.  Also, in that interview he completely ignorted the fact it was only until the GOP ran the congress that things began to turn around.

KSchiff and Roubini called this one 10000% dead on abnd krugman did not.  Thus, i will consider what they say to have more wieght.

[Straw Man]

Ok. lets do this again.

Krugamn did not even see this coming.  Also, in that interview he completely ignorted the fact it was only until the GOP ran the congress that things began to turn around. KSchiff and Roubini called this one 10000% dead on abnd krugman did not.  Thus, i will consider what they say to have more wieght.

Bernake and Greenspan and a bunch of other supposedly smart people didn't see this coming but plenty of others did. 
Just becasue Schiff predicted the sky was falling doesn't mean he's got the solutions and the same goes for Krugman for that matter.

I don't know all of Krugmans writing or comments from the recent past but he's studied the RE bubble and bank failures of Japan and knows a little something about the Depresion of the 30's too. 

edit - it apears that Krugman did see some of the some of these problems early on too:

from Wiki:   "In 2008, amid the subprime mortgage crisis in the US, Krugman predicted that housing prices would drop 25% overall and up to 50% in locations such as Miami or Los Angeles.[34] Krugman has appeared several times as a guest on MSNBC, particularly since the onset of the economic crisis in September 2008.  He has repeatedly expressed his view that Alan Greenspan and Phil Gramm are the two people most responsible for causing the crisis.  As early as 2005 Krugman was critical of Greenspan's reluctance to regulate the mortgage markets, and his shifting positions on the impending housing bubble."
 
Doing nothing (or just a shit load of tax cuts) will certainly only make things worse.   At this point (not that it matters what either of us think) I'm thinking along the same lines as Krugman that massive spending is the key to stopping this from getting much much worse.

I assume since you're a fan of Schiff that you've converted all your worldy assets into gold

[Soul Crusher]

Bernake and Greenspan and a bunch of other supposedly smart people didn't see this coming but plenty of others did. 
Just becasue Schiff predicted the sky was falling doesn't mean he's got the solutions and the same goes for Krugman for that matter.

I don't know all of Krugmans writing or comments from the recent past but he's studied the RE bubble and bank failures of Japan and knows a little something about the Depresion of the 30's too. 

edit - it apears that Krugman did see some of the some of these problems early on too:

from Wiki:   "In 2008, amid the subprime mortgage crisis in the US, Krugman predicted that housing prices would drop 25% overall and up to 50% in locations such as Miami or Los Angeles.[34] Krugman has appeared several times as a guest on MSNBC, particularly since the onset of the economic crisis in September 2008.  He has repeatedly expressed his view that Alan Greenspan and Phil Gramm are the two people most responsible for causing the crisis.  As early as 2005 Krugman was critical of Greenspan's reluctance to regulate the mortgage markets, and his shifting positions on the impending housing bubble."
 
Doing nothing (or just a shit load of tax cuts) will certainly only make things worse.   At this point (not that it matters what either of us think) I'm thinking along the same lines as Krugman that massive spending is the key to stopping this from getting much much worse.

I assume since you're a fan of Schiff that you've converted all your worldy assets into gold

Brass and Lead!

[Bindare_Dundat]

 
Doing nothing (or just a shit load of tax cuts) will certainly only make things worse.   At this point (not that it matters what either of us think) I'm thinking along the same lines as Krugman that massive spending is the key to stopping this from getting much much worse.

It's worked well so far.

[Straw Man]

It's worked well so far.

this time we'll try spending it here and on stuff we'll use for the next 50 years rather than just spending it to blow shit up.

This is really pretty simple - the less money people have the less they spend.  The more people get layed off the more they tighten up and spend less, leading to more layoffs and less spending.  If you put people to work they have money and they start spending, companies start seeing demand rise and they start hiring, etc..

What's happening now is that everyone is scared and even people with jobs and good income are tightening up and spending less.

BTW - I did my part.  I just went out and spent $3700 for new appliances for my kitchen (range, microwave, dishwasher, refrigerator).  Been putting it off for years and finally decided to do it now.  Paid for it with cash (well a check).

[Soul Crusher]

The easiest quickest way to syimuluate the economy IMMEDIATELY  is to cuyut the payroll tax. 

[Straw Man]

The easiest quickest way to syimuluate the economy IMMEDIATELY  is to cuyut the payroll tax. 

you and I are in 100% agreement on that. 

[Soul Crusher]

you and I are in 100% agreement on that. 

You do know why they wont do that right???

[grab an umbrella]

You do know why they wont do that right???

I wish they would so bad man.  People don't realize how much money they lose out of each check because of payroll tax.

BTW, why won't they cut it?

[Soul Crusher]

I wish they would so bad man.  People don't realize how much money they lose out of each check because of payroll tax.

BTW, why won't they cut it?

Because people will get very comfortable with taking home more of their own money each week and not be so happy when it comes time to reimpose it.

It basically represents another way the government controls you and the ability of yourself and the individual to make ecomonic decisiosns.

[Straw Man]

Because people will get very comfortable with taking home more of their own money each week and not be so happy when it comes time to reimpose it.  It basically represents another way the government controls you and the ability of yourself and the individual to make ecomonic decisiosns.

sounds like what's happening right now to the primary recipientst of the Bush tax cuts

btw - weren't you the guy who predicted Leon Panetta was toast when his name was first announced?

[Soul Crusher]

sounds like what's happening right now to the primary recipientst of the Bush tax cuts

btw - weren't you the guy who predicted Leon Panetta was toast when his name was first announced?

HAS HE BEEN CONFIRMED YET?

Also, have read about the million dollars he made last year from defunct banks and groups with business in front of the CIA?

[Straw Man]

HAS HE BEEN CONFIRMED YET?

Also, have read about the million dollars he made last year from defunct banks and groups with business in front of the CIA?

he has not

but I'm pretty sure you said something about him being toast because Feinstein wasn't on board

sounds like he has more experience with the CIA than anyone knew about

anyway, I admit this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread other than obliquely at best

I guess I'm just saying that anyone can make predictions about the future

most of our opinions don't matter at all

[Soul Crusher]

Panetta is another hack who cashed in.  We the people are being terribly served with these horrible choices of obama.

[Straw Man]

Panetta is another hack who cashed in.  We the people are being terribly served with these horrible choices of obama.

I didn't mean to muddy up this topic with Panetta

it's just that your predictions so far aren't that great

time will tell

[Soul Crusher]

I didn't mean to muddy up this topic with Panetta

it's just that your predictions so far aren't that great

time will tell

Dsachle?

I called that one asap.

Check thid out.

http://www.howestreet.com/index.php?pl=/goldradio/index.php/mediaplayer/1065

[Straw Man]

Dsachle?

I called that one asap.

Check thid out.

http://www.howestreet.com/index.php?pl=/goldradio/index.php/mediaplayer/1065

congrats

[Tre]

Also that the rebates of last year didn't do shit.

Exactly as we predicted. 

The cost of administrating the program made the entire thing a net loss for the country.  It was a stupid, 'feel good' idea that Bush never should've pursued. 

[Tre]

I'd like just one these Republican drones to show some proof that tax cuts actually stimulate spending.  Lack of spending (aka demand or the capacity to spend) is the problem.   If the govt starts spending it puts $$$'s in people's pocket and they start spending and the whole thing starts loosening up.  It's Econ 101.

As a small-business owner, if I'm paying less to the IRS, then I have more to spend on my business, which means hiring more independent contractors, who will then pay taxes on their earnings while also spending their money on goods and services.

As you said, Econ 101. 

[Tre]

Straw if you want to put $ in people's pocket, reduce payroll tax.  Everyone that works will take home more and the employers will have more money to invest in their business, purchase items or hire more people.  To me, that is economics 101.  It is a double bang for your buck.  This bill has no provisions on payroll or capital gains taxes!  Give people incentive to spend...tax credits for home and auto purchases make a lot of sense.

Giving everyone $500-600 already failed, why the hell would we take that approach again?

By the way, these "republican drones" are trying to protect abuses of your tax money against many of the pet projects people in your party put in there.

Did you know there is a provision to double the amount of federal spending for education?  We've tried pouring money into education, that is not the best way to improve education...and its certainly not a good short term stimulus.

Dude, please read what is in this bill.

x2 

[Soul Crusher]

As a small-business owner, if I'm paying less to the IRS, then I have more to spend on my business, which means hiring more independent contractors, who will then pay taxes on their earnings while also spending their money on goods and services.

As you said, Econ 101. 

I keep telling my liberal friends, the best way to do this is a payroll tax deduction.  

People will spend on food, bars, going out to eat, stores, clothes, etc.

The plan as it is, is a complete mess.

[Tre]

I can't believe the repubs nominated McCain instead of Romney.  A guy like Romney would have been a wise choice with our economic problems.

A few things at work:

1) there's reason to believe that elements of the GOP honestly didn't want to win the White House, hoping against hope that they could possibly limit a 4-year Obama presidency to 1 possibly 2 Supreme Court selections - an 8-year GOP run after that would make it possible to get 4-5 selections - the rationale is that the nation was headed for serious economic collapse and it's easier to put the blame for it at the foot of the guy who holds the office at the time  (stranger things have happened)

2) No matter how nice or 'normal' he seems, Mitt is still a Mormon and many Americans - despite his obvious economic brilliance - aren't comfortable with the idea of a Mormon holding such a high office in our nation's government.

3) Mitt would love to be the VP right now - to have his foot in the door - and probably would've stuck around if McCain had really had a chance to win.  This is conjecture.  Knowing that the GOP was so far behind, though, Mitt got away from the race as quickly as possible in order to protect his brand for a run in 2012.  He's going to emerge as a very solid candidate in 3 years and he will NOT be selecting Palin as his running mate.

...

That said...

I hope that President Obama is listening to Mitt (because he's 100% correct in his statements here), but I'm afraid that Obama - like Bush before him - intends to 'stay the course', no matter how disastrous it might be for our nation's financial future.