Author Topic: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin  (Read 11182 times)

Dos Equis

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Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« on: February 09, 2009, 01:03:23 PM »
 ::)

Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin

Monday, February 9, 2009 3:41 PM

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. — A secularist group is observing the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin with billboards that urge people to "Evolve Beyond Belief."

The Freedom From Religion Foundation placed "Praise Darwin" billboards in Grand Junction; Dayton, Tenn.; Dover, Pa.; and Whitehall, Ohio.

They feature stained-glass designs and a picture of the evolutionary theorist born on Feb. 12, 1809.

The Tennessee and Pennsylvania towns had landmark court cases about the teaching of evolution.

In Grand Junction, the foundation has complained about prayers in county meetings. The organization has battled Whitehall over nativity displays.

The Wisconsin-based foundation is made up of agnostics and atheists opposed to government displays of religion.
 
http://www.newsmax.com/us/darwin_billboards/2009/02/09/179766.html

MCWAY

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 01:09:36 PM »
::)

Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin

Monday, February 9, 2009 3:41 PM

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. — A secularist group is observing the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin with billboards that urge people to "Evolve Beyond Belief."

The Freedom From Religion Foundation placed "Praise Darwin" billboards in Grand Junction; Dayton, Tenn.; Dover, Pa.; and Whitehall, Ohio.

They feature stained-glass designs and a picture of the evolutionary theorist born on Feb. 12, 1809.

The Tennessee and Pennsylvania towns had landmark court cases about the teaching of evolution.

In Grand Junction, the foundation has complained about prayers in county meetings. The organization has battled Whitehall over nativity displays.

The Wisconsin-based foundation is made up of agnostics and atheists opposed to government displays of religion.
 
http://www.newsmax.com/us/darwin_billboards/2009/02/09/179766.html

It’s official. The religion of man-worship is hitting the billboards.

What's next? Are they going to bow before his shrine and utter the words, "There is no god but 'goo' and Darwin is its prophet"?


Dos Equis

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 01:13:46 PM »
It’s official. The religion of man-worship is off and running!!

What's next? Are they going to bow before his shrine and utter the words, "There is no god but "goo" and Darwin is its prophet"?



Isn't it crazy?  Their entire belief/nonbelief is directly tied to something that supposedly doesn't exist. 

MCWAY

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 01:17:53 PM »
Isn't it crazy?  Their entire belief/nonbelief is directly tied to something that supposedly doesn't exist. 

Throw in those "un-churches", like the ones in California. And, it really gets interesting. Yet, some folk get testy, when you refer to atheism as a religion.

loco

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 01:22:24 PM »
"As a scientist, I'm pretty hostile to a rival doctrine."
- Richard Dawkins

tonymctones

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 01:39:10 PM »
whats really funny is that those ppl dont know that darwin was actually clergy for his church and that believing in evolution doesnt contradict religion.

MCWAY

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 02:00:37 PM »
whats really funny is that those ppl dont know that darwin was actually clergy for his church and that believing in evolution doesnt contradict religion.

Some would beg to differ. As many theologians (and scientists who believe in Creation) put it, evolution implies death before sin. Hence the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary would mean nothing. Some evolutionists have even stated as much.




tonymctones

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2009, 02:09:01 PM »
Some would beg to differ. As many theologians (and scientists who believe in Creation) put it, evolution implies death before sin. Hence the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary would mean nothing. Some evolutionists have even stated as much.




how does evolution imply death before sin?

tonymctones

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 02:26:24 PM »
Some would beg to differ. As many theologians (and scientists who believe in Creation) put it, evolution implies death before sin. Hence the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on Calvary would mean nothing. Some evolutionists have even stated as much.
ok from what i gather this is what your talking about

http://creationwiki.org/Death_and_suffering_before_humanity_implies_an_unmerciful_God
"Evolution assumes that the conditions of death and suffering in the past were much like they are now. If death and suffering mean God was not a god of grace and mercy before humanity, then the same conditions today mean he still is not such a god."

my problem with this is that it assumes that God created man as he is today as in modern homo sapien and that we as in humans came after dinosaurs etc...

Whats to say that God didnt create us as single celled organisms and we evolved from that into what we are today? this would put us before any animal or lifeform that there is known to many times ppl take too rigid a stance on religion and science.


MCWAY

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »
ok from what i gather this is what your talking about

http://creationwiki.org/Death_and_suffering_before_humanity_implies_an_unmerciful_God
"Evolution assumes that the conditions of death and suffering in the past were much like they are now. If death and suffering mean God was not a god of grace and mercy before humanity, then the same conditions today mean he still is not such a god."

my problem with this is that it assumes that God created man as he is today as in modern homo sapien and that we as in humans came after dinosaurs etc...


Whats to say that God didnt create us as single celled organisms and we evolved from that into what we are today? this would put us before any animal or lifeform that there is known to many times ppl take too rigid a stance on religion and science.


According to Scripture, God created man in His own image and likeness. That doesn't sound like a single-celled organism to me.

The whole "evolved from that into what we are today" feeds into man's ego that he is increasing in stature (partially due to chance, partially due to his own works), instead of degenerating in stature, thanks to sin.

Plus, it implies that death is not a result of sin. Again, the purpose of Jesus' death on Calvary was to atone for man's sin and trangression. There would be no need for that, if death were not the result of sin.


OzmO

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 10:20:07 AM »
Wow, this is unreal, there are people starving in the world, losing their homes, addicted to drugs, can't afford medical insurance, etc...

And this group is spending thousands of dollars buying advertising for Darwin on bill boards?

Stupid.

They should be made to spend a month in church.

tonymctones

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 01:29:07 PM »
According to Scripture, God created man in His own image and likeness. That doesn't sound like a single-celled organism to me.

The whole "evolved from that into what we are today" feeds into man's ego that he is increasing in stature (partially due to chance, partially due to his own works), instead of degenerating in stature, thanks to sin.

Plus, it implies that death is not a result of sin. Again, the purpose of Jesus' death on Calvary was to atone for man's sin and trangression. There would be no need for that, if death were not the result of sin.
LOL what does in his own image sound like to you? God is everything correct?

chance is just another term for Gods will bro, just b/c something becomes more complex doesnt mean its increasing in stature you can evolve physically and still degenerate in stature spiritually.

why does evolution imply that death is not from sin? evolution doesnt imply anything about death

MMC78

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liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 01:13:12 PM »
Wow, this is unreal, there are people starving in the world, losing their homes, addicted to drugs, can't afford medical insurance, etc...

And this group is spending thousands of dollars buying advertising for Darwin on bill boards?

Stupid.

They should be made to spend a month in church.


Wrong.

People would be better off without religion.  For instance, if more people worked on sunday then they would have more $ and the economy would be better. Less starving and losing of homes.
Religion ties in with ignorance, and ignorance helps create poverty. Less ignorance=less poverty.

OzmO

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 01:48:16 PM »

Wrong.

People would be better off without religion.  For instance, if more people worked on sunday then they would have more $ and the economy would be better. Less starving and losing of homes.
Religion ties in with ignorance, and ignorance helps create poverty. Less ignorance=less poverty.

I'm not saying people wouldn't be better off without religion, but the hard truth is that "people" aren't ready for that, there are still too many people who need to be told, be it from a book, or from a pastor, the difference between right and wrong.  Civilization right now needs religion and it may be that way for many more centuries to come.

On another issue, the vast majority of people who claim to be religious will or do work on Sundays.  The only ones i know of are that don't are 7th day adventists (Friday night and Saturdays).  Even then it depends on the degree of their faith.  the percentage of "truly" religious people who follow their religion to the letter is small.

liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 02:40:10 PM »
I'm not saying people wouldn't be better off without religion, but the hard truth is that "people" aren't ready for that, there are still too many people who need to be told, be it from a book, or from a pastor, the difference between right and wrong.  Civilization right now needs religion and it may be that way for many more centuries to come.

On another issue, the vast majority of people who claim to be religious will or do work on Sundays.  The only ones i know of are that don't are 7th day adventists (Friday night and Saturdays).  Even then it depends on the degree of their faith.  the percentage of "truly" religious people who follow their religion to the letter is small.

That's baloney. People are essentially all the same, with exception of a few genetic idiots. The only difference is culture and upbringing, environment. These things determine if someone turns into a foolish sheep or a vigorous intellectual. NO ONE "needs" religion, and the only people who would commit crime and do evil deeds if they found out that religion was false are mentally ill and probably in psych clinics already. People turn into atheists every day and Atheists have LOWER rates of crime and are LESS violent. Civilization would be better off without religion.

Important fact: People's concept of "Good and Evil" are determined by secular society, general societal upbringing and genetics. When people lose their religious faith, they don't turn into violent immoral criminals. They are just the same as they were before for most aspects.


OzmO

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 05:48:55 PM »
That's baloney. People are essentially all the same, with exception of a few genetic idiots. The only difference is culture and upbringing, environment. These things determine if someone turns into a foolish sheep or a vigorous intellectual. NO ONE "needs" religion, and the only people who would commit crime and do evil deeds if they found out that religion was false are mentally ill and probably in psych clinics already. People turn into atheists every day and Atheists have LOWER rates of crime and are LESS violent. Civilization would be better off without religion.

Important fact: People's concept of "Good and Evil" are determined by secular society, general societal upbringing and genetics. When people lose their religious faith, they don't turn into violent immoral criminals. They are just the same as they were before for most aspects.



I'm not suggesting people who lose their religious faith would turn into violent criminals.  Culture, upbringing and environment will not change over night or with a conscious decision for everyone.  It will only change over time little by little.  I know atheists have lower rates of rime and are less violent, but something caused them to become atheists, was is their lie experiences combined with their intelligence? 

People want to believe, they want to have faith. It's not baloney, it the way it is.  People believe in stupid things, Mike Shermer says, if i remember it right, that its how we are wired, as pattern seekers, with hunter gatherer mentality.  We are constantly trying to explain events we don't understand by attaching super natural explanations to them. 

liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 06:08:51 PM »
I'm not suggesting people who lose their religious faith would turn into violent criminals.  Culture, upbringing and environment will not change over night or with a conscious decision for everyone.  It will only change over time little by little.  I know atheists have lower rates of rime and are less violent, but something caused them to become atheists, was is their lie experiences combined with their intelligence? 

People want to believe, they want to have faith. It's not baloney, it the way it is.  People believe in stupid things, Mike Shermer says, if i remember it right, that its how we are wired, as pattern seekers, with hunter gatherer mentality.  We are constantly trying to explain events we don't understand by attaching super natural explanations to them. 


People become agnostic or atheists because they stop seeing justification for the existence of God. You were claiming that people need religion because it makes them moral, I'm saying that religion  actually helps in making people immoral. It's not baloney that people want to believe, but what is baloney is the claim that somehow society "needs" religion or that people "aren't ready" to ditch the dogma. We are wired towards magical thinking, but this only means we have a propensity towards it, it doesn't mean that we are bound to forever suffer stupid and wrong beliefs. Whenever I feel the urge to resort to superstitious or magical thinking, I just think twice about it and find a rational alternative. Anyone can do this, it just takes practice.

OzmO

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 06:43:55 PM »

People become agnostic or atheists because they stop seeing justification for the existence of God. You were claiming that people need religion because it makes them moral, I'm saying that religion  actually helps in making people immoral. It's not baloney that people want to believe, but what is baloney is the claim that somehow society "needs" religion or that people "aren't ready" to ditch the dogma. We are wired towards magical thinking, but this only means we have a propensity towards it, it doesn't mean that we are bound to forever suffer stupid and wrong beliefs. Whenever I feel the urge to resort to superstitious or magical thinking, I just think twice about it and find a rational alternative. Anyone can do this, it just takes practice.

I agree with much of what you say and believe people have the capacity for rational thought at the level you are talking about.  I just don't think it will happen anytime soon. 

Joel_A

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2009, 05:30:28 AM »
As a Catholic and a fairly recent atheist convert (about 4-5 years), I feel the need to post this youtube clip.


MCWAY

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2009, 05:46:06 AM »

Wrong.

People would be better off without religion.  For instance, if more people worked on sunday then they would have more $ and the economy would be better. Less starving and losing of homes.
Religion ties in with ignorance, and ignorance helps create poverty. Less ignorance=less poverty.

Your attempt to blame society’s woes on religion is utterly ridiculous. People losing their homes and starving have absolutely NOTHING to do with their not working on Sunday. It has everything to do with crooked business practices, corrupt politicians, greedy bakers, and irresponsible people who spend way more than they make.

In other words, people violating some of the very rules that the Bible teaches. Covetousness leads to greed: people spending more than they have, often to get what they don’t need; “Dishonest weight and balances” in business practices, etc.

Various news programs have cited the reasons for America's economy being in tough shape. For some STTTRAAAANGE reason, the "Sabbath" didn't make the list.

That's baloney. People are essentially all the same, with exception of a few genetic idiots. The only difference is culture and upbringing, environment. These things determine if someone turns into a foolish sheep or a vigorous intellectual. NO ONE "needs" religion, and the only people who would commit crime and do evil deeds if they found out that religion was false are mentally ill and probably in psych clinics already. People turn into atheists every day and Atheists have LOWER rates of crime and are LESS violent. Civilization would be better off without religion.

Tell that to the folks who lived in Stalin's Soviet Union.


Important fact: People's concept of "Good and Evil" are determined by secular society, general societal upbringing and genetics. When people lose their religious faith, they don't turn into violent immoral criminals. They are just the same as they were before for most aspects.


The apostle Paul referred to it as "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof".

"Good and Evil" can only be measured, based on a standard of conduct and rules. And, for the vast majority in this country (and others), that standard comes from their religious beliefs (in the USA's case, Christianity).


People become agnostic or atheists because they stop seeing justification for the existence of God. You were claiming that people need religion because it makes them moral, I'm saying that religion  actually helps in making people immoral. It's not baloney that people want to believe, but what is baloney is the claim that somehow society "needs" religion or that people "aren't ready" to ditch the dogma. We are wired towards magical thinking, but this only means we have a propensity towards it, it doesn't mean that we are bound to forever suffer stupid and wrong beliefs. Whenever I feel the urge to resort to superstitious or magical thinking, I just think twice about it and find a rational alternative. Anyone can do this, it just takes practice.


People become agnostic or atheists because they stop seeing justification for the existence of God. You were claiming that people need religion because it makes them moral, I'm saying that religion  actually helps in making people immoral. It's not baloney that people want to believe, but what is baloney is the claim that somehow society "needs" religion or that people "aren't ready" to ditch the dogma. We are wired towards magical thinking, but this only means we have a propensity towards it, it doesn't mean that we are bound to forever suffer stupid and wrong beliefs. Whenever I feel the urge to resort to superstitious or magical thinking, I just think twice about it and find a rational alternative. Anyone can do this, it just takes practice.

People become atheists for others as well. Some do that, because of a severe tragedy in their lives has shattered their faith: Molestation by parent or parishioner, death of a loved one, major financial loss, etc.

Plus, it appears you make the mistaken assumption that such shifts are unilateral. Just as there are believers who become atheists, there are atheists who have become believers.

You cannot make the claim that religion makes people "immoral", without having a clear, defined standard on what morality is. In other words, who's making up the rules, here? Who is determining that "X" is right and "Y" is wrong.

One could argue that the only difference between your religion and that of a Christian is the entity you serve. In essence (as I've said before), atheism is merely man worshipping himself, instead of God.


loco

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2009, 06:16:53 AM »
People become agnostic or atheists because they stop seeing justification for the existence of God.

And what about intellectuals who go from atheism to faith in God, people like Anthony Flew, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, C. S. Lewis?

liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2009, 09:38:24 AM »
I agree with much of what you say and believe people have the capacity for rational thought at the level you are talking about.  I just don't think it will happen anytime soon. 


I'm optimistic.

liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2009, 09:49:24 AM »
And what about intellectuals who go from atheism to faith in God, people like Anthony Flew, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, C. S. Lewis?



If people worked more days of the week, the economy would be better off I think. I work on sunday. It certainly won't make a big difference, but it will do something.

Stalin's soviet union was an oppressive dictatorship. It can't be used as any decent example of an atheist society. Try using some progressive American towns or Northern European countries.

"Good and Evil" can be measured in countless other ways beside "God says so!". In fact, religious DEONTOLOGY is the most infantile ethical philosophy in existence. People who say that they would go psycho if God didn't exist are unstable.


I don't think I would define circumstantial atheists as true Atheists. SOme people are say they are Atheist to rebel, to 'fit in', because they think it is cool, etc. These people aren't really genuine Atheists and often still hold beliefs in a deity of some sort.

There are certainly Atheists who become believers, but essentially all of the examples I have heard of this are due to emotional break downs. Genuine atheists (Like perhaps C.S. Lewis was) only become believers because there is a massive emotional need to do so, and coincidentally C.S. Lewis contended that his conversion was not 'rational' but 'emotional'.

My definition of immoral would be what is bad for society, or human beings, or generally sentient beings.

I don't see how Atheism means "man worshiping himself". There are certainly examples of humankind admiring itself, but I'm far too critical of mankind to ever worship it. Far too critical.




liberalismo

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Re: Atheist Group Buys Billboards Honoring Darwin
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2009, 09:53:43 AM »
And what about intellectuals who go from atheism to faith in God, people like Anthony Flew, Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, C. S. Lewis?



Anthony Flew became a Deist (of sorts), and his concept of God is quite inactive and abstract.

Lee Stroble, I'm quite convinced that he was never really an Atheist and my opinion is that he overstated his Christian conversion in his book to sell more books.

C.S. Lewis became a Christian mostly for emotional reasons, some hole that religion filled inside of him. This he stated himself, saying that his conversion was not based on facts of any sort.