Killing children/your child because god told you to

[big L dawg]

remember that lady that drowned her kids in the bathtub.she said god told her to do it....well there's some nut job that post's here regularly that would do the same thing.

[Joel_A]

remember that lady that drowned her kids in the bathtub.she said god told her to do it....well there's some nut job that post's here regularly that would do the same thing.

dorian yates?


 

[big L dawg]

dorian yates?


 

not sure what Dorian's stance is on this     but no...not him.

[Joel_A]

not sure what Dorian's stance is on this     but no...not him.

I believe her name was Andrea Yates, hence the Dorian post. 

Yeah, she was definitely delusional.

[big L dawg]

I believe her name was Andrea Yates, hence the Dorian post. 

Yeah, she was definitely delusional.

yea..and she is one of many people that god has told them to kill there kids....I'm sure there's a good reason for it I mean who are we to question god or them...right?

[liberalismo]

Very Christian of you to mock the killing of women and children. 



So, McWay if God ordered you to bash the head in of a 2 year old girl would you do it?

I didn't mock the killing of the women and children. I listed the options that would be available, with regards to the remnants of Israel's defeated attackers.

As for your question, which I've answered once before, the answer is YES!!

Cue the outrage!!!

[Joel_A]

I guess this is sticking to the thread.

[MCWAY]

For people who claim to be so enlightened, it appears we have a very DENSE group of folks here. Ozmo asked me that question, expecting me to dance around the issue (as did the last person to whom he inquired the same), hence setting me up for more grilling.

I gave Ozmo my answer (which he, on its face anyway, wanted to be a "Yes" or "No").

As for the Andrea Yates thing, there's no reason why God would tell me to kill my own child.

1) The child committed no sin, worthy of death.
2) Were any sin of a serious nature committed, the Lord, as He tends to do, would give ample time for forgiveness and repentance before passing judgment (a point Ozmo, Liberalismo et. al. missed by ten miles).
3) Such an instruction would hardly be given, sans explanation.
4) I always have the option of interceding, as Moses did on behalf of the Israelites, when God wanted to destroy them for their idolatry and wickedness.
5) Any judgment involving the death of children DID NOT involve simply children. It was a punishment on the adults, who committed serious trangressions. And as people like Ozmo completely forget, at times, is a principle that is as true today as it was thousands of years ago....CHILDREN OFTEN PAY THE PRICE FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS.

A much lighter (but no less signficant) example is one I've used with Ozmo and others involving a family, living in a house or apartment. It's quite simple. If you do something stupid that costs you your job and can't pay your mortgage/rent, guess what happens....YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY GETS THROWN OUT TO THE STREET. The landlord isn't going to spare your kids or wife and give them shelter. You all get evicted.

And, such it is in life. At certain levels, your whole family can be adversely affected by the evil you do.

So, as L Dawg tends to do, he is merely running his mouth with little-to-no substance behind his statements, other than the standard RAH-RAH-RAH anti-religious blathering. So be it.

[big L dawg]

For people who claim to be so enlightened, it appears we have a very DENSE group of folks here. Ozmo asked me that question, expecting me to dance around the issue (as did the last person to whom he inquired the same), hence setting me up for more grilling.

I gave Ozmo my answer (which he, on its face anyway, wanted to be a "Yes" or "No").

As for the Andrea Yates thing, there's no reason why God would tell me to kill my own child.

1) The child committed no sin, worthy of death.
2) Were any sin of a serious nature committed, the Lord, as He tends to do, would give ample time for forgiveness and repentance before passing judgment (a point Ozmo, Liberalismo et. al. missed by ten miles).
3) Such an instruction would hardly be given, sans explanation.
4) I always have the option of interceding, as Moses did on behalf of the Israelites, when God wanted to destroy them for their idolatry and wickedness.
5) Any judgment involving the death of children DID NOT involve simply children. It was a punishment on the adults, who committed serious trangressions. And as people like Ozmo completely forget, at times, is a principle that is as true today as it was thousands of years ago....CHILDREN OFTEN PAY THE PRICE FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS.

A much lighter (but no less signficant) example is one I've used with Ozmo and others involving a family, living in a house or apartment. It's quite simple. If you do something stupid that costs you your job and can't pay your mortgage/rent, guess what happens....YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY GETS THROWN OUT TO THE STREET. The landlord isn't going to spare your kids or wife and give them shelter. You all get evicted.

And, such it is in life. At certain levels, your whole family can be adversely affected by the evil you do.

So, as L Dawg tends to do, he is merely running his mouth with little-to-no substance behind his statements, other than the standard RAH-RAH-RAH anti-religious blathering. So be it.

so the numerous amount of religious whack jobs that have killed over the years because god told them to are all lying?or are they just crazy?but yet if you bashed the head in of a 2 year old it would be because god told you to.right?

[Ganuvanx]

so the numerous amount of religious whack jobs that have killed over the years because god told them to are all lying?or are they just crazy?but yet if you bashed the head in of a 2 year old it would be because god told you to.right?

Get ready because whether you like it or not, one world religion is on its way. The majority of world leaders are satanists. I’ve been saying this for years. If you’re smart enough to look in the right places you will confirm it. Here is just one example:

Walter Cronkite : "I'm Glad To Sit On The Right Hand Of Satan"

Do you prefer satanism as a world religion? Better get use to worshipping him because you will be even if you are currently an athiest homeboy.

[OzmO]

For people who claim to be so enlightened, it appears we have a very DENSE group of folks here. Ozmo asked me that question, expecting me to dance around the issue (as did the last person to whom he inquired the same), hence setting me up for more grilling.

I gave Ozmo my answer (which he, on its face anyway, wanted to be a "Yes" or "No").

As for the Andrea Yates thing, there's no reason why God would tell me to kill my own child.

1) The child committed no sin, worthy of death.
2) Were any sin of a serious nature committed, the Lord, as He tends to do, would give ample time for forgiveness and repentance before passing judgment (a point Ozmo, Liberalismo et. al. missed by ten miles).
3) Such an instruction would hardly be given, sans explanation.
4) I always have the option of interceding, as Moses did on behalf of the Israelites, when God wanted to destroy them for their idolatry and wickedness.
5) Any judgment involving the death of children DID NOT involve simply children. It was a punishment on the adults, who committed serious trangressions. And as people like Ozmo completely forget, at times, is a principle that is as true today as it was thousands of years ago....CHILDREN OFTEN PAY THE PRICE FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS.

A much lighter (but no less signficant) example is one I've used with Ozmo and others involving a family, living in a house or apartment. It's quite simple. If you do something stupid that costs you your job and can't pay your mortgage/rent, guess what happens....YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY GETS THROWN OUT TO THE STREET. The landlord isn't going to spare your kids or wife and give them shelter. You all get evicted.

And, such it is in life. At certain levels, your whole family can be adversely affected by the evil you do.

So, as L Dawg tends to do, he is merely running his mouth with little-to-no substance behind his statements, other than the standard RAH-RAH-RAH anti-religious blathering. So be it.

It doesn't matter in the least.  Either you are a person who can find some reason to MURDER A 2 year old CHILD or you are not.

There is no grey area here.  At least be a man and stand by what you said.  And stop trying to squirm out of it with your candy ass deflections.

[OzmO]

Oh and just for the record, even "IF" it all was true, the bible as the WOG, and GOD ordered me to kill a 2 year old child, and it be an Amalikite or Hamas, I'd tell him to go to hell.

[liberalismo]

Oh and just for the record, even "IF" it all was true, the bible as the WOG, and GOD ordered me to kill a 2 year old child, and it be an Amalikite or Hamas, I'd tell him to go to hell.

Ditto.

[loco]

Oh and just for the record, even "IF" it all was true, the bible as the WOG, and GOD ordered me to kill a 2 year old child, and it be an Amalikite or Hamas, I'd tell him to go to hell.

You are such a self-righteous hypocrite.  You have no clue what you would do were you in the shoes of the ancient Israelites.  Had somebody killed your grandparents, your parents, your sisters and brothers, your children, you might just gladly kill them and their children too, with or without God's blessing.

I don't know what I would do.  I really don't.  Why don't you be honest and admit that you don't know either.

You asked MCWAY a hypothetical question.  He gave you an honest, hypothetical answer, and now you are using that to dishonestly twist the meaning of his answer and attack and discredit him.  Hypocrite!

[OzmO]

You are such a self-righteous hypocrite.  You have no clue what you would do were you in the shoes of the ancient Israelites.  Had somebody killed your grandparents, your parents, your sisters and brothers, your children, you might just gladly kill them and their children too, with or without God's blessing.

I don't know what I would do.  I really don't.  Why don't you be honest and admit that you don't know either.

You asked MCWAY a hypothetical question.  He gave you an honest, hypothetical answer, and now you are using that to dishonestly twist the meaning of his answer and attack and discredit him.  Hypocrite!

Is this more desperate blabber from the resident drama queen?

I'm not being self righteous at all you holy than thou slaver genocider worshiping bible thumper.  

If i did it in anger, it would still be wrong for me to kill a child. (not to mention ungodly)  At least i can admit that and not  cast candy ass slants and deflections on it with bull shit justifications about children paying for the sins of their parents.  How fucking stupid. Fact of the matter is I wouldn't kill the child of the person who murdered my entire family.  I'd kill the person for sure if i could get away with it.  And then I'd take that child in a raise it as my own.  Which would be a very christian thing to do, not that perverse crap you worship.

Sorry, loco,  I have a grip on what's right and wrong, I don't need a flawed book of stories written by primitive men  thousands of years ago taken literally by ignorant people.

Regarding McWay,

He said he would kill a child on God's orders.  plain and simple.  The lady who drowned her children thought the same thing.   Get over it.  At least he had the nads to answer the question unlike someone I know.   

[MCWAY]

It doesn't matter in the least.  Either you are a person who can find some reason to MURDER A 2 year old CHILD or you are not.

There is no grey area here.  At least be a man and stand by what you said.  And stop trying to squirm out of it with your candy ass deflections.

I stand by what I said. The simple fact is you were expecting me to squirm, just as you did when you brought up a thread just like this one a few months ago.

I did then what I've done now. I answered your question, straight up, and gave you the reasons for my answer.

As for your answers to Loco, those are spurious, to say the least. Were we to crush Al Qaeda underfoot, the odds of you being first in line to adopt Bin Laden's grandbabies are SLIM and NONE (with "SLIM" heading for the exit signs).

And, as I mentioned the last time you made such a claim about adoption, the Israelites did that (not with the Amalekites but with other people); and you whined about "slavery".

What I said about children suffering for the sins of their parents is anything but deflection. It is mere reality, often the collateral damage of war. When push comes to shove, you ain't adopting any Al Qaeda/Taliban babies into the Ozmo household. Nor, are you making sure that what's left of their ranks become American citizens and move into the house next door.

[big L dawg]

I stand by what I said. The simple fact is you were expecting me to squirm, just as you did when you brought up a thread just like this one a few months ago.

I did then what I've done now. I answered your question, straight up, and gave you the reasons for my answer.

As for your answers to Loco, those are spurious, to say the least. Were we to crush Al Qaeda underfoot, the odds of you being first in line to adopt Bin Laden's grandbabies are SLIM and NONE (with "SLIM" heading for the exit signs).

And, as I mentioned the last time you made such a claim about adoption, the Israelites did that (not with the Amalekites but with other people); and you whined about "slavery".

What I said about children suffering for the sins of their parents is anything but deflection. It is mere reality, often the collateral damage of war. When push comes to shove, you ain't adopting any Al Qaeda/Taliban babies into the Ozmo household. Nor, are you making sure that what's left of their ranks become American citizens and move into the house next door.

your one psychotic SOB!

so the numerous amount of religious whack jobs that have killed over the years because god told them to are all lying?or are they just crazy?but yet if you bashed the head in of a 2 year old it would be because god told you to.right?

now answer my question.

[MCWAY]

You are such a self-righteous hypocrite.  You have no clue what you would do were you in the shoes of the ancient Israelites.  Had somebody killed your grandparents, your parents, your sisters and brothers, your children, you might just gladly kill them and their children too, with or without God's blessing.

I don't know what I would do.  I really don't.  Why don't you be honest and admit that you don't know either.

You asked MCWAY a hypothetical question.  He gave you an honest, hypothetical answer, and now you are using that to dishonestly twist the meaning of his answer and attack and discredit him.  Hypocrite!

I disagree! I think he does know what he would do. Again, Ozmo wasn't expecting me to give him a "Yes" or "No" answer.

If we got the chance to take Al Qaeda out, once and for all (after what went down on 9/11, the Cole, the firs WTC attack, etc), Ozmo, along with L Dawg, Liberalismo, and all the other blubberers here would take it in a heartbeat.

They wouldn't give TWO RED CENTS, whether the wives and kids of these guys were destroyed in the process, especially given the weapons of modern warfare, that makes killing our enemies far more impersonal.  That appears to be the source of Ozmo's crying (as if they'd be any less dead, courtesy of missiles, instead of swords or bare hands).

[MCWAY]

your one psychotic SOB!

I'm sorry!! Let's see your adoption papers for a child, whose Al Qaeda daddy is dead and gone, because of our military strikes.

Or, if you prefer, you can show us a picture of your mourning over the children, killed as collateral damage, after our Armed Forces took out a AQ stronghold.

now answer my question.

Or what? You're going to throw a temper tantrum? Last time I checked, I outlined the criteria as to how and why, if at all, the Lord would give anyone such instruction. Maybe you should brush up on your reading skills.

But, since comprehension ain't your strongest gift, I'd say "Yes", and "Perhaps", to your rather bone-headed questions.

As I said on a previous post, neither you, Ozmo, or anyone else shed a tear when our military put down terrorist posts (especially knowing the MO of these guys is to hide behind their own women and children). And, there'd be no remorse on your end, if the opportunity to completely eliminate Al Qaeda presented itself, no matter how many 2-year-old kids of theirs died as a result.

[OzmO]

I stand by what I said. The simple fact is you were expecting me to squirm, just as you did when you brought up a thread just like this one a few months ago.

I did then what I've done now. I answered your question, straight up, and gave you the reasons for my answer.

Nice too see that you aren't squirming once again.  However, I'm sure that woman had "her" reasons too.  FACT is you would kill a child on God's orders.  The ground work is there.  Hope your sanity stays in tact for the sake of the children around you.

As for your answers to Loco, those are spurious, to say the least. Were we to crush Al Qaeda underfoot, the odds of you being first in line to adopt Bin Laden's grandbabies are SLIM and NONE (with "SLIM" heading for the exit signs).

And, as I mentioned the last time you made such a claim about adoption, the Israelites did that (not with the Amalekites but with other people); and you whined about "slavery".

Such a simpleton view of what's happen over there eh McWay?  Is that what allows you to swallow the non sense you believe?  We have killed many AQ and Taliban adults.  Are our soldiers also killing purposely hunting down their children and killing them too?  Our you proud of these "christians soldiers doing God's work as they toss a fragment grenade in room full chidren or how they line a dozen five year girls up and shot them with their M-4?  Does that make you feel rightous?  Does that make you feel like God's soldier?   

We are not purposely going after children with the intent of genocide in Afghanistan McWay.  Pull your nose out of Pat Robertson's butt.  What we doing?  I would hope they are being sent to orphanages or sent to adoption.  I know we are not killing them.  FFS

What I said about children suffering for the sins of their parents is anything but deflection. It is mere reality, often the collateral damage of war. When push comes to shove, you ain't adopting any Al Qaeda/Taliban babies into the Ozmo household. Nor, are you making sure that what's left of their ranks become American citizens and move into the house next door.

What you said was a pathetic justification about the purposeful killing of innocent children, something that you said you would do on God's orders.

You are a fine soldier in Satan's army.   

[MCWAY]

Nice too see that you aren't squirming once again.  However, I'm sure that woman had "her" reasons too.  FACT is you would kill a child on God's orders.  The ground work is there.  Hope your sanity stays in tact for the sake of the children around you.

Perhaps, she did. But, given the criteria I laid out earlier, based on Scripture, the safe bet is that her “orders” DID NOT come from the Lord.

Such a simpleton view of what's happen over there eh McWay?  Is that what allows you to swallow the non sense you believe?  We have killed many AQ and Taliban adults.  Are our soldiers also killing purposely hunting down their children and killing them too?  Our you proud of these "christians soldiers doing God's work as they toss a fragment grenade in room full chidren or how they line a dozen five year girls up and shot them with their M-4?  Does that make you feel rightous?  Does that make you feel like God's soldier?   

Once again, you're playing semantics. You know that attacking AQ means that their women and children WILL DIE as well for various reasons, among those reasons, AQ likes to hide among their women and children and those women and children are often used as suicide bombers themselves.

We are not purposely going after children with the intent of genocide in Afghanistan McWay.  Pull your nose out of Pat Robertson's butt.  What we doing?  I would hope they are being sent to orphanages or sent to adoption.  I know we are not killing them.  FFS

What does Pat Robertson have to do with this (or are you running out of lines to use). Those children could be, as I mentioned would be the case were just the Amalekite males destroyed, left to starve and die. In any event, you aren't rushing to the front of the line to adopt them or make them American citizens.

What you said was a pathetic justification about the purposeful killing of innocent children, something that you said you would do on God's orders.

You are a fine soldier in Satan's army.   

What I've said is proof, that when push comes to shove, you would act in the EXACT same manner, if it means protecting your family, your people, and your country from extermination. Retaliating against Al Qaeda or the Taliban, in any form or fashion, means that THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN WILL DIE, plain and simple, no getting around it.

You will either destroy them in warfare OR (in the unlikely event you could actually sift through the ranks and target the males exclusively) the women and children will STARVE TO DEATH. Either way, those kids will pay a heavy price for their father's "Death to America/Death to Israel" mantra and subsequent actions.

And, your hands will be NOTICABLY VOID of any adoption papers for Bin Laden's/Zawahiri's/Randy-Al-Kaboom's kids or grandkids.

[OzmO]

Perhaps, she did. But, given the criteria I laid out earlier, based on Scripture, the safe bet is that her “orders” DID NOT come from the Lord.

Exactly, she didn't know the difference.  YOU don;t know the difference either as you have already admitted you'd kill children on God's orders.  The only thing that separates you from her, is perception.  Nothing more. What separates me from you and her is that there isn't a situation where i would kill an innocent child.  And if i did, it would be wrong under ANY circumstance.  It wouldn't be ok because i was god or whatever lame ass excuse/cop out you come up with to justify the killing of children to validate the book of stories you worship.

Once again, you're playing semantics. You know that attacking AQ means that their women and children WILL DIE as well for various reasons, among those reasons, AQ likes to hide among their women and children and those women and children are often used as suicide bombers themselves.

I'm not talking about collateral damage.  I'm talking about killing children on purpose.  I'm talking about genocide.  You have suggested justification for genocide and the killing of children in this modern age with Hamas, AQ, and the Taliban.

What does Pat Robertson have to do with this (or are you running out of lines to use). Those children could be, as I mentioned would be the case were just the Amalekite males destroyed, left to starve and die. In any event, you aren't rushing to the front of the line to adopt them or make them American citizens.

Pat Robertson preaches that Christian Warrior Bull shit, you reminded me of it.  If we are killing their parents, and leaving children in a cave to starve and not allowing other families or orphanages to take care of them then we aren't doing it right.  But we are not doing that.  And you know it.

What I've said is proof, that when push comes to shove, you would act in the EXACT same manner, if it means protecting your family, your people, and your country from extermination. Retaliating against Al Qaeda or the Taliban, in any form or fashion, means that THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN WILL DIE, plain and simple, no getting around it.

You will either destroy them in warfare OR (in the unlikely event you could actually sift through the ranks and target the males exclusively) the women and children will STARVE TO DEATH. Either way, those kids will pay a heavy price for their father's "Death to America/Death to Israel" mantra and subsequent actions.

And, your hands will be NOTICABLY VOID of any adoption papers for Bin Laden's/Zawahiri's/Randy-Al-Kaboom's kids or grandkids.

No I wouldn't.  The ADULTS responsible would die.  I'm not so barbaric and primitive to think that someone is guilty before they commit a crime or destine to be a criminal.  I guess you are.  I'm surprised you are not in the GAZA strip right now clubbing baby girls and boys.  Because they are sure to grow to be terrorists. Aren't they?   

I'll say it like i said to to loco:

I have a grip on what's right and wrong, I don't need a flawed book of stories written by primitive men  thousands of years ago taken literally by ignorant people.

We are not committing genocide in Afghanistan.  We are not commiting Genocide on the just the male adults.  Afghanistan has the capacity to take of the orphaned children.  Just as the Murdering Jews did with the Amalilkites.

Thanks God, the American government isn't a barbaric as you perverse Christians are.

[OzmO]

Update:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=263451.50

And, NO! I am not in the same boat as Andrea Yates, for the reason I outlined on L Dawg's thread.

For the sake of any Hamas children you might encounter in your life, I hope not.

If you go around chanting "Death to..." me and my people and are willing to act out accordingly, all bets are off.

Is McWay suggesting he'd kill Children born of Hamas parents because of what they chant?

[MCWAY]

Exactly, she didn't know the difference.  YOU don;t know the difference either as you have already admitted you'd kill children on God's orders.  The only thing that separates you from her, is perception.  Nothing more. What separates me from you and her is that there isn't a situation where i would kill an innocent child.  And if i did, it would be wrong under ANY circumstance.  It wouldn't be ok because i was god or whatever lame ass excuse/cop out you come up with to justify the killing of children to validate the book of stories you worship.

Wrong again!! I DO know the difference, as I have clear guidelines as to how the Lord operates with regards to justice, mercy, repentance, judgment, and the depth and range of all of the above. It's an simple read and it's easy to state that no such order would come from the Lord to exclusively kill my children.

What seperates me from you is that I speak the truth and know certain circumstances require certain actions. There are situations that you would do such, even given how unlikely the odds of your having to do so might be.

I'm not talking about collateral damage.  I'm talking about killing children on purpose.  I'm talking about genocide.  You have suggested justification for genocide and the killing of children in this modern age with Hamas, AQ, and the Taliban.

Guess what you're doing, when you attack Hamas, AQ, and the Taliban, KNOWING THAT THEY USE CHILDREN AS SHIELDS or AS BOMBS and hide among the populace: You're killing children, ON PURPOSE. In fact, they're counting on that. That's why they bleat to the UN, everytime they get their behinds whipped, while engaging in the very thing that they supposedly want: HOLY WAR (Jihad). They just don't like it, when they're on the losing end of it.

Pat Robertson preaches that Christian Warrior Bull shit, you reminded me of it.  If we are killing their parents, and leaving children in a cave to starve and not allowing other families or orphanages to take care of them then we aren't doing it right.  But we are not doing that.  And you know it.

No I wouldn't.  The ADULTS responsible would die.  I'm not so barbaric and primitive to think that someone is guilty before they commit a crime or destine to be a criminal.  I guess you are.  I'm surprised you are not in the GAZA strip right now clubbing baby girls and boys.  Because they are sure to grow to be terrorists. Aren't they?   

Again, you play the semantics game. Killing them with missiles and bombs makes it impersonal. But, you would do that, just the same, if that's what it took to keep them from putting an end to your family and country.

I'll say it like i said to to loco:

I have a grip on what's right and wrong, I don't need a flawed book of stories written by primitive men  thousands of years ago taken literally by ignorant people.

We are not committing genocide in Afghanistan.  We are not commiting Genocide on the just the male adults.  Afghanistan has the capacity to take of the orphaned children.  Just as the Murdering Jews did with the Amalilkites.

It has not reached that point....YET. Then again, they haven't been attacking us, scorching our crops, and targeting our women and children for three centuries, have they? Nor have peace treaties, cease-fires, etc. been attempted for as long. Of course, you keep forgetting that in your continued wailing about the Amalekites.

Were the Israelites to have taken care of those kids, you'd turn right around and start hollering about "slavery", just as you did, when Israel adopted children from other vanquished enemies. So, again, spare me the adoption spiel.

BTW, guess what happened, when those adopted Amalekites (the ones Saul didn't destroy and went elsewhere) grew up and their numbers were replenished.

Again, when I see you with adoption papers in hand, to feed clothe, and school the sons of dead AQ/Hamas/Taliban terrorists, you'll have a leg on which to stand. That's assuming they don't use your benevolence against you, when they grow up (then again, you may plan to just pick the babies and leave the older kids and teens to starve to death).

Thanks God, the American government isn't a barbaric as you perverse Christians are.

Thanks God, we have leaders that will protect us, no matter what, rather than subject us to destruction, simply because Ozmo et. al. is worried about AQ's kiddies having gummy bears at day care.

[ToxicAvenger]

remember that lady that drowned her kids in the bathtub.she said god told her to do it....well there's some nut job that post's here regularly that would do the same thing.

hey Ibraham started it!