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cheftim
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« Reply #275 on: October 29, 2011, 06:18:17 AM » |
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Agree. I always go back to the fact that VKM was allowing the documentary to be shot and they caught everything. you KNOW VKM had final say on what was going to be allowed to be aired and for him to allow it says to me that 100% it was a work. No doubt in my mind.
I am a little surprised that Bret or Shaun haven't spilled the beans about it.
I'm not doubting this theory. But if this is true? Why did Bret always sound so bitter in every interview after it happened? Also if it was a work. Why did it take Bret so long to come back to the Federation? I personally don't believe it. Bret thought he was bigger then the Federation. Bret thought he was gonna leave the Federation as Champ. Bret and Bischoff were gonna use this and try to bury the credibility of the Federation title. Bret thought he was gonna get the last laugh but got the rug pulled out from underneath him. I would have loved to have seen Bischoffs face when the ref called for the bell awarding HBK the victory. Bret screwed Bret. |
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Montague
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« Reply #276 on: October 29, 2011, 06:40:58 AM » |
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I'm not doubting this theory. But if this is true? Why did Bret always sound so bitter in every interview after it happened? Also if it was a work. Why did it take Bret so long to come back to the Federation? Things just seemed to happen a little "too perfectly." Also, Bret was such an old-school traditionalist who protected the business. He went to such extreme measures to kayfabe over the years and PRIDED himself on portraying realism both in and out of the ring. Bret is the last guy I would expect to “come clean” about wrestling, which is EXACTLY what he did in admitting that his promoter & boss changed the predetermined outcome of his match. I will always maintain that Montreal was orchestrated as an edgy and interesting way for Vince to come clean about the business, which was almost necessary given the nature of the type of content he would soon produce: sex, kidnapping, firearms, necrophilia, etc. As for the timeframe, I suspect that Vince & Bret (& Shawn) planned to revisit this storied rivalry until Owen’s accident. I believe THAT caused a GENUINE tension and animosity between the families and the WWF. Owen’s accident nixed any plans for Bret’s return - whenever it may have been planned, and I think there was eventually GENUINE BAD BLOOD between Bret & Vince, but not necessarily over the Survivor Series. |
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cheftim
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« Reply #277 on: October 30, 2011, 02:36:01 AM » |
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Things just seemed to happen a little "too perfectly."
Also, Bret was such an old-school traditionalist who protected the business.
He went to such extreme measures to kayfabe over the years and PRIDED himself on portraying realism both in and out of the ring.
Bret is the last guy I would expect to “come clean” about wrestling, which is EXACTLY what he did in admitting that his promoter & boss changed the predetermined outcome of his match.
I will always maintain that Montreal was orchestrated as an edgy and interesting way for Vince to come clean about the business, which was almost necessary given the nature of the type of content he would soon produce: sex, kidnapping, firearms, necrophilia, etc.
As for the timeframe, I suspect that Vince & Bret (& Shawn) planned to revisit this storied rivalry until Owen’s accident.
I believe THAT caused a GENUINE tension and animosity between the families and the WWF.
Owen’s accident nixed any plans for Bret’s return - whenever it may have been planned, and I think there was eventually GENUINE BAD BLOOD between Bret & Vince, but not necessarily over the Survivor Series.
Your making me more of a believer and appreciate all of your posts. The whole thing makes sense to Timmy now. Can you explain the bad blood and what happened between the Harts and VKM. Or maybe start an Owen thread? RIP Owen. |
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Montague
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« Reply #278 on: October 30, 2011, 07:04:48 AM » |
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Your making me more of a believer and appreciate all of your posts. The whole thing makes sense to Timmy now. Can you explain the bad blood and what happened between the Harts and VKM. Or maybe start an Owen thread? RIP Owen.
Sure. I don’t want to derail your HBK thread, but since you asked: A lot of this insight is from Bret’s book, as well as interviews he’s done over the years, but essentially, when Owen died, there was incredible tension and animosity that developed between the Harts, Pattersons (Owen‘s in-laws), and McMahons. As if that wasn’t bad enough, there was also contention between Hart family members. Owen’s widow, Martha, was in disagreement with certain Hart siblings over how the lawsuit & settlement should be handled. Members of the Hart family formed their own little coalitions with some siblings siding with Martha. Bret and his parents tried to work with Martha, who’d even asked Bret to oversee certain things and act as a spokesman for the media - which, really pissed off the more jealous brothers & sisters. Granted this is only Bret’s side of things, but it sounds like Martha really “played” certain Hart family members to get what she wanted. I think this is evidenced by the fact that once the proverbial dust settled, she pretty much cut all ties with the family. Jim & Davey's wives tried to "work" with Vince during all of this in hopes of getting their husbands' old jobs back with WWF. Vince promised Bret access to his archive footage, which he later reneged on. There’s a lot more details to this, and if you’re interested, I highly recommend getting a copy of Bret’s book, which turned out to be a lot better than I thought it would be. |
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cheftim
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« Reply #279 on: November 01, 2011, 07:01:44 AM » |
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Thanks for that. I have really learned alot from your posts and am grateful.
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cheftim
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« Reply #280 on: November 01, 2011, 07:09:18 AM » |
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The Showstoppa
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cheftim
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« Reply #281 on: November 13, 2011, 02:24:03 PM » |
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Things just seemed to happen a little "too perfectly."
Also, Bret was such an old-school traditionalist who protected the business.
He went to such extreme measures to kayfabe over the years and PRIDED himself on portraying realism both in and out of the ring.
Bret is the last guy I would expect to “come clean” about wrestling, which is EXACTLY what he did in admitting that his promoter & boss changed the predetermined outcome of his match.
I will always maintain that Montreal was orchestrated as an edgy and interesting way for Vince to come clean about the business, which was almost necessary given the nature of the type of content he would soon produce: sex, kidnapping, firearms, necrophilia, etc.
As for the timeframe, I suspect that Vince & Bret (& Shawn) planned to revisit this storied rivalry until Owen’s accident.
I believe THAT caused a GENUINE tension and animosity between the families and the WWF.
Owen’s accident nixed any plans for Bret’s return - whenever it may have been planned, and I think there was eventually GENUINE BAD BLOOD between Bret & Vince, but not necessarily over the Survivor Series.
I got the Shawn vs. Bret DVDs and have watched them twice. Bret seemed pretty believeable that the screw job was legit. Really enjoyed the DVDs. That was such a great time in Wrestling. |
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cheftim
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« Reply #282 on: November 28, 2011, 06:29:44 PM » |
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cheftim
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« Reply #283 on: November 29, 2011, 11:22:20 AM » |
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Mr. Wrestlemania
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cheftim
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« Reply #284 on: November 29, 2011, 07:58:30 PM » |
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mankind
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cheftim
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« Reply #285 on: December 17, 2011, 01:26:40 PM » |
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HBK
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cheftim
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« Reply #286 on: December 17, 2011, 01:34:29 PM » |
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Luna
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cheftim
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« Reply #287 on: December 21, 2011, 04:19:46 PM » |
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Montague
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« Reply #288 on: February 01, 2012, 06:36:27 PM » |
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HOLY SHIT!!!
I did it!
I found the ONLY picture of the quee Shawn Michaels that Cheftim hasn't posted in this thread:
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cheftim
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« Reply #289 on: February 01, 2012, 07:03:20 PM » |
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Here's a cool one.
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Montague
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« Reply #290 on: February 01, 2012, 07:30:51 PM » |
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^^Looks like Shawn's selling the move more than Bret.  The only thing I never liked about SCM was that the "get-ready" was one big telegraph. Basically, unless the opponent is Helen Keller, he'd know Shawn is coming. I know the foot stomp and side-step charge were theatrical and dramatic, but I always preferred when Shawn hit the kick unexpectedly; the way Storm & Malenko could hit that half-crab, or even Benoit got into the crossface from any position. It may seem foolish to desire realism in an admittingly "fake" sport, but wrestling fans undoubtedly like their fake action to at least look real. |
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cheftim
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« Reply #291 on: February 09, 2012, 08:06:49 PM » |
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sweet chin music
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littleguns
Getbig IV
Gender: 
Posts: 3564
Not Hating, Just Splaining!!
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« Reply #292 on: February 16, 2012, 02:17:44 PM » |
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I give him credit that he has been able to truly walk away from business aside from a cameo here and there......
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cheftim
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« Reply #293 on: May 27, 2012, 08:36:10 PM » |
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sweet chin music
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cheftim
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« Reply #294 on: May 27, 2012, 08:37:54 PM » |
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sweet chin music
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Montague
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« Reply #295 on: May 28, 2012, 04:39:18 AM » |
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Hey, what have you been up to, brother?
I haven't seen you around too much, lately, and I figured you'd be working this holiday weekend.
HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY!!!
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