Author Topic: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause  (Read 3213 times)

Dos Equis

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White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« on: February 28, 2009, 12:03:40 AM »
He's quickly turning out to be a partisan hack. 

White House set to reverse health care conscience clause

By Saundra Young
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Obama administration plans to reverse a regulation from late in the Bush administration allowing health-care workers to refuse to provide services based on moral objections, an official said Friday.
The rule protects the rights of health care providers who refuse to participate in certain procedures.

The rule protects the rights of health care providers who refuse to participate in certain procedures.

The Provider Refusal Rule was proposed by the Bush White House in August and enacted on January 20, the day President Barack Obama took office.

It expanded on a 30-year-old law establishing a "conscience clause" for "health-care professionals who don't want to perform abortions."

Under the rule, workers in health-care settings -- from doctors to janitors -- can refuse to provide services, information or advice to patients on subjects such as contraception, family planning, blood transfusions and even vaccine counseling if they are morally against it.

"We recognize and understand that some providers have objections to providing abortions, according to an official at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The official declined to be identified because the policy change had not been announced. "We want to ensure that current law protects them.

"But we do not want to impose new limitations on services that would allow providers to refuse to provide to women and their families services like family planning and contraception that would actually help prevent the need for an abortion in the first place."

Many health-care organizations, including the American Medical Association, believe health-care providers have an obligation to their patients to advise them of the options despite their own beliefs. Critics of the current rule argue there are already laws on the books protecting health-care professionals when it comes to refusing care for personal reasons.

Dr. Suzanne T. Poppema, board chair of Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health, praised Obama "for placing good health care above ideological demands."

"Physicians across the country were outraged when the Bush administration, in its final days, limited women's access to reproductive health care," she said. "Hundreds of doctors protested these midnight regulations and urged President Obama to repeal them quickly. We are thrilled that President Obama took the first steps today to ensure that our patients' health is once again protected."

But Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said, "Protecting the right of all health-care providers to make professional judgments based on moral convictions and ethical standards is foundational to federal law and is necessary to ensure that access to health care is not diminished, which will occur if health-care workers are forced out of their jobs because of their ethical stances.

"President's Obama's intention to change the language of these protections would result in the government becoming the conscience and not the individual. It is a person's right to exercise their moral judgment, not the government's to decide it for them."

An announcement reversing the current rule is expected early next week, the HHS official said. Any final action would have to be taken after a 30-day public comment period.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/conscience.rollback/index.html

24KT

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 12:23:27 AM »
Damn Good Move!!!    
w

shootfighter1

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 06:00:30 AM »
I'm not so certain.  Which docs (or related NPs or PAs) does this apply to?
I assume it means that all emergency room doctors will now be forced to Rx Abortive pills?  OB/GYN docs pushed to do an abortion?
If thats true then you can see it as discriminatory against the practitioner too.  ie...Someone with a moral objection to Abortive pills now cannot go into the broad specialty of ER medicine.  OB/GYN docs may be forced to do an abortion.  Thats limiting the field these people can go into because of mandated services by the gov which may be against their moral or religious beliefs.
Its obvious that a practitioner with strong feelings against abortion should not work in an abortion clinic.  However, I think this ruling applies mostly to Apportive pills in an emergency setting.

George Whorewell

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 07:04:19 AM »
Yes, a doctor should be forced to give a woman her ninth abortion and provide condoms for 7 year olds. Why wasn't this law always in existance!?!?

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 07:07:24 AM »
Damn Good Move!!!    

Why?

Don't go cutting and pasting some bullshit, either.

Someone wanting an abortion can find another physician.

I know this is a strange concept but doctors have rights too.

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 10:36:12 AM »
Why?

Don't go cutting and pasting some bullshit, either.

Someone wanting an abortion can find another physician.
I know this is a strange concept but doctors have rights too.

It's got nothing to do with forcing a doctor to perform an abortion:

Quote
It expanded on a 30-year-old law establishing a "conscience clause" for "health-care professionals who don't want to perform abortions."

Under the rule, workers in health-care settings -- from doctors to janitors -- can refuse to provide services, information or advice to patients on subjects such as contraception, family planning, blood transfusions and even vaccine counseling if they are morally against it.

"We recognize and understand that some providers have objections to providing abortions, according to an official at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The official declined to be identified because the policy change had not been announced. "We want to ensure that current law protects them.

"But we do not want to impose new limitations on services that would allow providers to refuse to provide to women and their families services like family planning and contraception that would actually help prevent the need for an abortion in the first place
."

Dos Equis

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 10:38:06 AM »
This is really about abortion.  We have a bill that will probably die in our state legislature designed to protect medical professionals who have moral objections to certain medical procedures, including abortion.  The only vocal critics are pro abortion people.  

I'm not sure a law is necessary, because I think the Free Exercise Clause already protects these folks, but the concept is correct.  

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 10:48:49 AM »
Would the same people have supported a law which required WWII Germans to be guards/janitors/doctors at concentration camps?

Issues like this become bigger than abortion. Roe v Wade, for example is about a patient's control over their bodies, not simply abortion.

I'm pro choice, in both directions. That being said, I wouldn't participate materially in an abortion unless it were an emergency. I personally don't consider the morning after pill an abortion but feel that's more or less a technical distinction. The abortion pill probably wouldn't be an issue for me but I wouldn't be digging around a uterus with a shop vac, LOL! Not saying it's wrong, just wrong for me. If their choice deserves respect, so should mine.

I'm not religious and that has nothing to do with my opinion.

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2009, 10:49:56 AM »
This is really about abortion.  We have a bill that will probably die in our state legislature designed to protect medical professionals who have moral objections to certain medical procedures, including abortion.  The only vocal critics are pro abortion people.  

I'm not sure a law is necessary, because I think the Free Exercise Clause already protects these folks, but the concept is correct.  

there is a law in place that prevent doctors from being forced to perform abortions and that is not changing.


Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2009, 10:51:57 AM »
Would the same people have supported a law which required WWII Germans to be guards/janitors/doctors at concentration camps?

Issues like this become bigger than abortion. Roe v Wade, for example is about a patient's control over their bodies, not simply abortion.

I'm pro choice, in both directions. That being said, I wouldn't participate materially in an abortion unless it were an emergency. I personally don't consider the morning after pill an abortion but feel that's more or less a technical distinction. The abortion pill probably wouldn't be an issue for me but I wouldn't be digging around a uterus with a shop vac, LOL! Not saying it's wrong, just wrong for me. If their choice deserves respect, so should mine.

I'm not religious and that has nothing to do with my opinion.

do you think it a pharmacist should be allowed to reject service to someone seeking to have a prescription filled for birth control, over the counter contraceptives or the morning after pill?

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2009, 10:55:14 AM »
do you think it a pharmacist should be allowed to reject service to someone seeking to have a prescription filled for birth control, over the counter contraceptives or the morning after pill?

No.

The doctors level of involvement and liability are different.

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2009, 10:58:57 AM »
No.

The doctors level of involvement and liability are different.

well that's all this is about.

scroll up and check out the large type quote from the article

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2009, 11:08:26 AM »
well that's all this is about.

scroll up and check out the large type quote from the article

I read it but some things (like rights) tend to change by degrees. :)

Dos Equis

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2009, 11:15:00 AM »
Would the same people have supported a law which required WWII Germans to be guards/janitors/doctors at concentration camps?

Issues like this become bigger than abortion. Roe v Wade, for example is about a patient's control over their bodies, not simply abortion.

I'm pro choice, in both directions. That being said, I wouldn't participate materially in an abortion unless it were an emergency. I personally don't consider the morning after pill an abortion but feel that's more or less a technical distinction. The abortion pill probably wouldn't be an issue for me but I wouldn't be digging around a uterus with a shop vac, LOL! Not saying it's wrong, just wrong for me. If their choice deserves respect, so should mine.

I'm not religious and that has nothing to do with my opinion.

I agree it should be bigger than abortion, but in reality these disputes/arguments, etc. are usually about abortion.  It really should be a no brainer IMO.  You have a moral objection, you refer the patient to someone else, get another person to do what the patient wants, etc.  Shouldn't be a major issue at all. 

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2009, 12:25:56 PM »
I agree it should be bigger than abortion, but in reality these disputes/arguments, etc. are usually about abortion.  It really should be a no brainer IMO.  You have a moral objection, you refer the patient to someone else, get another person to do what the patient wants, etc.  Shouldn't be a major issue at all. 

you keep ignoring the point that no doctor is forced to perform an abortion and (from the statement from the article above) that won't change.


drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 12:28:49 PM »
I agree it should be bigger than abortion, but in reality these disputes/arguments, etc. are usually about abortion.  It really should be a no brainer IMO.  You have a moral objection, you refer the patient to someone else, get another person to do what the patient wants, etc.  Shouldn't be a major issue at all. 

It's geeky but I'm really turned on (intellectually) by the issue of boundaries. The whole "where do individual rights begin and end and are they ever absolute?" thing almost never ceases to be interesting. That being said, I don't know if it's reasonable to say a Janitor has an absolute right to refuse mopping some particular patient's floor but the argument is still sort of interesting. :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 12:40:06 PM »
It's geeky but I'm really turned on (intellectually) by the issue of boundaries. The whole "where do individual rights begin and end and are they ever absolute?" thing almost never ceases to be interesting. That being said, I don't know if it's reasonable to say a Janitor has an absolute right to refuse mopping some particular patient's floor but the argument is still sort of interesting. :)

No one argues that cleaning a patients' particulr floor is murder or ending a life.

Many doctors believe that abortion is murder and taking an innocent life. 

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 01:34:48 PM »
No one argues that cleaning a patients' particulr floor is murder or ending a life.

Many doctors believe that abortion is murder and taking an innocent life. 

Many women believe men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion at all.

Soul Crusher

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2009, 01:38:43 PM »
Many women believe men shouldn't have an opinion on abortion at all.

That's fine, then let the man have the option and choice whether or not to pay child support.

drkaje

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2009, 02:04:58 PM »
That's fine, then let the man have the option and choice whether or not to pay child support.

That isn't likely to happen, LOL!

Everyone will scream "what about the children?" and explain how children suffering for the choices of adults is wrong. :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2009, 02:24:00 PM »
That isn't likely to happen, LOL!

Everyone will scream "what about the children?" and explain how children suffering for the choices of adults is wrong. :)

im not arguing with you about that, just the fact that the debate is always one sided.

Dos Equis

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2009, 04:20:47 PM »
It's geeky but I'm really turned on (intellectually) by the issue of boundaries. The whole "where do individual rights begin and end and are they ever absolute?" thing almost never ceases to be interesting. That being said, I don't know if it's reasonable to say a Janitor has an absolute right to refuse mopping some particular patient's floor but the argument is still sort of interesting. :)

It is an interesting subject.  I've had this discussion with staunch abortionists and they are really unreasonable IMO.   

Seems like the janitor would have a difficult time working at a place that does work that he or she finds morally objectionable.  Should probably find another job. 

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2009, 07:25:50 PM »
It is an interesting subject.  I've had this discussion with staunch abortionists and they are really unreasonable IMO.   

Seems like the janitor would have a difficult time working at a place that does work that he or she finds morally objectionable.  Should probably find another job. 

what is an abortionist?

2ND COMING

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2009, 07:28:26 PM »
an abortionist?

Like...really?

Straw Man

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Re: White House set to reverse health care conscience clause
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2009, 11:08:50 AM »
an abortionist?

Like...really?

Does abortionist = people who are pro-choice?

I don't know anyone who is pro-aborition

I've never heard any referred to as an "abortionist"

I've never heard a doctor who performs abortions called an abortionist except as a perjorative.  It's really an old fashioned definition from the time when abortions where illegal and referred to people who performed illegal abortions

It's certainly not a medical definition and no OBGYN or other doctor would refer to themselves as such.