Author Topic: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN  (Read 11108 times)

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2009, 02:51:58 PM »

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2009, 02:53:53 PM »
So we see plenty of countries in these graphs, With Universal Healthcare, spending LESS PER CITIZEN than the United States with much better results in Healthcare.

Japan has an awesome Universal Healthcare system and their spending per citizen is well below what the United States spends.

shootfighter1

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2009, 03:59:26 PM »
Adonis, I think a flat sales tax is definitely something to consider.  On the surface (without detailed analysis), it seems like a much better system than we have.  20-22% sounds right.

The pie graph which shows the large defense spending will be changed under Obama because of all the other spending that is occuring.

shootfighter1

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2009, 04:07:50 PM »
There are so many people who under report taxes.  Many contractors and tradesmen get paid under the table.  Executives use creative accounting to hide money.  Illegals don't pay income, state, SS or local taxes.  A national sales tax would make sure that everyone pays.

Nationalized healthcare is perplexing.  I find it hard to believe the majority of docs favor it, though I read your study summary.  Besides longer wait times, there will be more regulation which will put most private docs out of business.  The transfer to electronic medical records can cost a large practice up to 200,000 for a group.  Then there are yearly charges to maintain the system and protect the records.  Also, there will be rationing of medical services, which is concerning.

Lawyers in this country are out of hand.  The cost of medical care in this country is significantly increased by med professionals having to practice defensive medicine, which always increases costs.  Malpractice is very high and there is no incentive for lawyers not to take crappy cases.  Lawyers shouldn't be paid a % of damages awarded because they inflate damage #s to get paid more.  There also needs to be some kind of review before a case goes to court, where an arbitrator or single medically knowledgeable judge pre-screens the case and throws out the ones that are bogus.  Docs have to report any lawsuit brought against them regardless of guilt and malpractice goes up.  How f'ed up is that?  Many physicians left the field in the last 8-10 yrs because of the rising costs and excessive litigaton.   This contributes to the shortage of doctors.  And despite the historical impression that docs get paid a lot, the average general doctor makes $140,000 per year.  Thats after 12-15 yrs of schooling and debt post HS.

Overall, I don't feel nationalized healthcare is completely bad, it really depends on how it is done.

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2009, 04:22:39 PM »
There are so many people who under report taxes.  Many contractors and tradesmen get paid under the table.  Executives use creative accounting to hide money.  Illegals don't pay income, state, SS or local taxes.  A national sales tax would make sure that everyone pays.

Nationalized healthcare is perplexing.  I find it hard to believe the majority of docs favor it, though I read your study summary.  Besides longer wait times, there will be more regulation which will put most private docs out of business.  The transfer to electronic medical records can cost a large practice up to 200,000 for a group.  Then there are yearly charges to maintain the system and protect the records.  Also, there will be rationing of medical services, which is concerning.

Lawyers in this country are out of hand.  The cost of medical care in this country is significantly increased by med professionals having to practice defensive medicine, which always increases costs.  Malpractice is very high and there is no incentive for lawyers not to take crappy cases.  Lawyers shouldn't be paid a % of damages awarded because they inflate damage #s to get paid more.  There also needs to be some kind of review before a case goes to court, where an arbitrator or single medically knowledgeable judge pre-screens the case and throws out the ones that are bogus.  Docs have to report any lawsuit brought against them regardless of guilt and malpractice goes up.  How f'ed up is that?  Many physicians left the field in the last 8-10 yrs because of the rising costs and excessive litigaton.   This contributes to the shortage of doctors.  And despite the historical impression that docs get paid a lot, the average general doctor makes $140,000 per year.  Thats after 12-15 yrs of schooling and debt post HS.

Overall, I don't feel nationalized healthcare is completely bad, it really depends on how it is done.

The tax code is so complicated there is no human being alive who truly understands it to the T.  The fact that so many owe back taxes of all walks of life is a clear testament to this.

Mike Gravel, the best President we never had, explains this all clearly.

shootfighter1

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2009, 05:40:48 PM »
Yep, the tax code is a mess.  A national sales tax seems very reasonable.  If that occured, I wouldn't mind some necessities like healthcare to be covered by the gov (as long as it doesn't make the system worse for docs or patients).  Also, when you look at all taxes: income, state, local, SS, RITA, property, payroll, etc we are taxed too high IMO.

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2009, 11:17:17 AM »
Interesting to note that the United States, which spends THE MOST PER PERSON on Healthcare in the WORLD RIGHT NOW yet ranks 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the World Health Organization WHO study. In fact, the United States Would be saving billions of dollars if they offer Universal Healthcare with a public option. Or if lets say they adopted Norway`s model, the cost of per person would be lower than it is now, thus the overall expenditure is less than it is now.  Kind of ruins the population size argument.  :P

headhuntersix

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2009, 11:27:13 AM »
U mean all 4.5 million of them.....a chinese fire drill would work better in Norway. Comparing their system with ours is ridiculous.
L

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2009, 11:38:45 AM »
U mean all 4.5 million of them.....a chinese fire drill would work better in Norway. Comparing their system with ours is ridiculous.

Not at all considering we have More Hospitals and Staff per capita then any country in the world.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2009, 11:57:05 AM »
U mean all 4.5 million of them.....a chinese fire drill would work better in Norway. Comparing their system with ours is ridiculous.


You are arguing with this idiot? He is just about the most ridiculous person on getbig, he is a pathological liar and like to twist the facts.

For example, you both seem to forget to compare the demographic of the populations, life expectency is also affected by crime which the US have much more and the much more obese and stressful people in the US don't help that either.

So taking anything serious from Gaydonis trying to compare Apples to rotten Carrots is just a waste of time.

Soul Crusher

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2009, 12:03:01 PM »

You are arguing with this idiot? He is just about the most ridiculous person on getbig, he is a pathological liar and like to twist the facts.

For example, you both seem to forget to compare the demographic of the populations, life expectency is also affected by crime which the US have much more and the much more obese and stressful people in the US don't help that either.

So taking anything serious from Gaydonis trying to compare Apples to rotten Carrots is just a waste of time.

I almost spit up my lunch.

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2009, 12:10:47 PM »

You are arguing with this idiot? He is just about the most ridiculous person on getbig, he is a pathological liar and like to twist the facts.

For example, you both seem to forget to compare the demographic of the populations, life expectency is also affected by crime which the US have much more and the much more obese and stressful people in the US don't help that either.

So taking anything serious from Gaydonis trying to compare Apples to rotten Carrots is just a waste of time.
Not true whatsoever. The CDC uses medical data, not crime statistics as does the National Institute of Health.  Using these statistics would be completely useless and worthless.  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/

Furthermore, the homicide rate in the United States is 5.7 people per 100,000 which equates to .0057 percent.

Clearly when you crunch the numbers it is a negligible effect and is pointless to use.  In other words, more people die from  not having healthcare then Homicide.  Something to think about.

grab an umbrella

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2009, 12:17:47 PM »
Not true whatsoever. The CDC uses medical data, not crime statistics as does the National Institute of Health.  Using these statistics would be completely useless and worthless.  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/

Furthermore, the homicide rate in the United States is 5.7 people per 100,000 which equates to .0057 percent.

Clearly when you crunch the numbers it is a negligible effect and is pointless to use.  In other words, more people die from  not having healthcare then Homicide.  Something to think about.

Adonis, you aren't taking into account the unhealthy lifestyles that americans lead vs. other countries.  Americans are by far the most unhealthy people on the planet, and this has nothing to do with the hospital industry.  Again, you truly are comparing apples to oranges.

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2009, 12:19:01 PM »
Adonis, you aren't taking into account the unhealthy lifestyles that americans lead vs. other countries.  Americans are by far the most unhealthy people on the planet, and this has nothing to do with the hospital industry.  Again, you truly are comparing apples to oranges.
What are you basing this off of?  Please provide me with evidence or statistics?  Are you just saying this with nothing to go on? No hard data?

headhuntersix

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2009, 12:25:21 PM »
No ur right...a country of 4.5 million can easily be compared with a country of 350 plus million. U realize that New York City has almost double that alone....
IFBB ur right but I can't resist..he spends tons of time trying to sound smart......
L

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2009, 12:32:52 PM »
No ur right...a country of 4.5 million can easily be compared with a country of 350 plus million. U realize that New York City has almost double that alone....
IFBB ur right but I can't resist..he spends tons of time trying to sound smart......
Again, we spend more per capita on healthcare then any other country in the world.  Adopting Norway`s plan would cause us to spend less per capita then we are currently.

Therefore we would spend less overall then currently as it would cost less.

I didn`t think this concept would be that difficult to grasp, but apparently it is.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2009, 12:36:40 PM »
Again, we spend more per capita on healthcare then any other country in the world.  Adopting Norway`s plan would cause us to spend less per capita then we are currently.

Therefore we would spend less overall then currently as it would cost less.

I didn`t think this concept would be that difficult to grasp, but apparently it is.


You can spend a billion dollar on a 500lbs dude and he will still die...America is OBESE, get over it.
The father of a friend of mine recently passed away due to an artery exploding...he was obese (not gigantic but you know the normal fat old guy) and he was loaded with cash...doesn't help....

I'm done with your idiocy.

headhuntersix

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2009, 12:37:36 PM »
We have a much more diverse country...apparently u haven't traveled much. I've actually been to Norway, twice. There aren't alot of folks banging around outside the major cities. Factor that into ur plan. This whole thread is ridiculous.
L

IFBBwannaB

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2009, 12:40:17 PM »
We have a much more diverse country...apparently u haven't traveled much. I've actually been to Norway, twice. There aren't alot of folks banging around outside the major cities. Factor that into ur plan. This whole thread is ridiculous.

Also....low temperatures help last longer :P


The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2009, 12:41:01 PM »
We have a much more diverse country...apparently u haven't traveled much. I've actually been to Norway, twice. There aren't alot of folks banging around outside the major cities. Factor that into ur plan. This whole thread is ridiculous.

Comparing the diversity of a country regarding its citizens makes zero sense when factoring per capita costs.  The model is adjusted to the population.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2009, 12:43:29 PM »
Comparing the diversity of a country regarding its citizens makes zero sense when factoring per capita costs.  The model is adjusted to the population.

So spending the same amount of money on one of the AIDS/Malaria/etc infested African countries and Norway will produce the same results?

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

headhuntersix

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2009, 12:50:14 PM »
Comparing the diversity of a country regarding its citizens makes zero sense when factoring per capita costs.  The model is adjusted to the population.

Ok do i need to spell this out...it's much cheaper to treat 4.5 million people crowed into a few cities..as opposed to 350 plus million spread across.....forget it. Move to Norway...u'll love it.
L

The True Adonis

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2009, 12:52:10 PM »
Ok do i need to spell this out...it's much cheaper to treat 4.5 million people crowed into a few cities..as opposed to 350 plus million spread across.....forget it. Move to Norway...u'll love it.
That makes zero sense given the number of Hospitals and medical staff per capita, per city, per region in America.

IFBBwannaB

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2009, 12:55:44 PM »
Ok do i need to spell this out...it's much cheaper to treat 4.5 million people crowed into a few cities..as opposed to 350 plus million spread across.....forget it. Move to Norway...u'll love it.

Please notice something about posters such as Gaydonis and 240, when they are faced with logical thinking , like the question in my reply above yours, they simply ignore and keep spouting the same shit.

I can give him a million reasons and examples and he will ignore them all, notice that when he replied to my post he only referred to the crime statistics (which I'm not sure if they are in the statistics or not, but that wasn't the point of the post).

Hence...he is a fucking moron who can't handle me  :-* Not the first time he and his kind stfu when someone with a little sense start to put them on the spot.

headhuntersix

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Re: THE TRUE ADONIS SOCIALIST TAX PLAN
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2009, 12:59:28 PM »
We both need to stop....but it feels so good sparing with this idiot. He never heard of ER packing and assumed I made it up. Until of course I provided proof. he then went into some bs about it not being widespread. Gee TA, if the BBC is reporting on it, based on law that the Brits had to enact, I'd say its widespread enough.
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