Author Topic: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive  (Read 2750 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2009, 08:19:48 AM »
333386 thinks everyone's a democrat and a republican, and all arguments follow this line. I mean, how weird is that? What's wrong is wrong, regardless of who does it. Once you lose that ability then...

How about damn Yankees huh?!

Whats wrong is wrong is right!   Bush set the stage for this disaster with the Congress. He will go down as a horrible president.  However, dont be so quick that the Congress and Senate too did this!  Pelosi telling the GOP congressman who voted against the bailout that they were "unpatriotic"??????

Bush and Obama are nearly the same and even Krugman and Frank Rich today are starting to say that. 


 

Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2009, 08:21:42 AM »
That's the kind of person I've always been accused of being.

We really really need to get the corporations out of power.  Bush/Obama/Clinton, what's the difference in that regard, they're all corporate yes men apparently.  Obama talked the talk better than anybody before but I'm not seeing the change yet.  This fascist bullshit needs to end now.

"Change" was just a slogan to fool people.  The people behind Obama are the same as those who were behind Bush.  Goldman Sachs/AIG/ etc.

If these gamblers and madoffs were allowed to fail and go bankrupt, they would not be in a position to screw us like they are now.     

Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2009, 08:28:37 AM »
Whats wrong is wrong is right!   Bush set the stage for this disaster with the Congress. He will go down as a horrible president.  However, dont be so quick that the Congress and Senate too did this!  Pelosi telling the GOP congressman who voted against the bailout that they were "unpatriotic"??????

Bush and Obama are nearly the same and even Krugman and Frank Rich today are starting to say that. 


 
Pelosi?  Can you find one single person left or right here that support or defends her?  I haven't seen it.

Slapper

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2009, 08:45:05 AM »
Whats wrong is wrong is right!   Bush set the stage for this disaster with the Congress. He will go down as a horrible president.  However, dont be so quick that the Congress and Senate too did this!  Pelosi telling the GOP congressman who voted against the bailout that they were "unpatriotic"??????

Bush and Obama are nearly the same and even Krugman and Frank Rich today are starting to say that. 

Dude, I am not saying otherwise. Drop the politics rhetoric. I do not like Obama one friggin bit. But equating Congress' acquiescence to whatever GW wanted to do to Bush's outright IDIOCY and MALACY toward anything he did not understand, including American's freedoms, is really puzzling to me.

George W. Bush was a total FUCKUP! George W. Bush was the worst thing to happen to the US in many, many years. You being unable to say that or being unable to say it without also putting some blame on Congress is... I'm speechless.

You've drunk the cool-aid my friend.

SAMSON123

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2009, 09:00:37 AM »
Well, that is a hard thing to do, simply because we've been raised to accept pseudo-fascist ideals from the moment we enter the school system. By this I mean our perception of America has been distorted to such a point that we only see it in terms of nation X, populated by people Y who only speak language N and are eternally obedient to leader F (known as the fascist formula). As opposed to the Founding Fathers' clear intentions of creating a geographical area or space of freedoms (called the United States of America) within which all people were free to do as they pleased (if indoingso no one was harmed,) regardless of race, religion or creed.

It is obvious we are now in a pseudo-fascist regime, and we have not seen the evils of fascism yet because we are exporting the hate part. The problem is that the hate will eventually come home, and we can all remember what happened in Germany, or Europe as a whole, when the "spreading of freedom" came to a halt.



How did these so called founding fathers create this geographical region? They did it by first killing MILLIONS of Native People who had lived in the region now called america for thousands of years.

So far as doing what one pleases...that is the reason for the moral decay in america...there are no boundaries, no guidelines, no inhibitions,  no limitations that restrict behavior. So therefore america has become a VIOLENT, CORRUPT, GREED FILLED SOCIETY that pays no regard to anything. Your government is a reflection of the society as a whole. EXCESS, GREED, WANTON, CARELESS DISREGARD, etc..Now you can SEE IT (finally) and you don't like what you see. And just as government refuses to change, so does the populace refuse to change. So on the destructive path you continue until like Frankensteins monster, your creation comes back and kills you.

And please don't try to blame the school system, or the church, or your neighbor etc etc..As long as things were going good in america no one gave a damn about anything..now that you all are moments away from poverty, a police state, homelessness, etc you are now SOOOOOOOO concerned about government, laws, people, constitution, etc...It is too late now what is coming won't be stopped and it won't be good.

Sort of like the movie KNOWING... you know what is coming and knew it was coming for some time and now that it is almost upon you...there is nothing you can do to stop it.
C

Cap

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »
I did actually

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=125451.0
Fair enough, I never read it.  Apparently it wasn't that popular back then but it's gaining some with Barry at the reigns and his liberal parrot Pelosi ruining running Congress.  Just saying.   ;D

Slapper.... ::) You do see how much money Barry has spent in such a short time right?  You see how he says the the deficit will be down to 500 billion in 8 years but his REAL budget will bring the deficit to 9.3 trillion?  He's the biggest bullshit artist we have seen yet.  You can blame Bush all you want but the relaxation of the housing market was pushed big time by Mush-mouth Barney Frank and other Democrats who thought everyone deserved to be in a home.  People actually think 13 dollars a week (that they will get taxed on) is going to make any difference.  The easiest was to balance a budget is to cut spending and pay off your debt.  If Barry actually held a real job he would know that.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2009, 09:03:46 AM »
Dude, I am not saying otherwise. Drop the politics rhetoric. I do not like Obama one friggin bit. But equating Congress' acquiescence to whatever GW wanted to do to Bush's outright IDIOCY and MALACY toward anything he did not understand, including American's freedoms, is really puzzling to me.

George W. Bush was a total FUCKUP! George W. Bush was the worst thing to happen to the US in many, many years. You being unable to say that or being unable to say it without also putting some blame on Congress is... I'm speechless.

You've drunk the cool-aid my friend.

No, what i am saying is that the Congress is just at fault here as Bush, and now Obama.

Congress has completely abrogated its role.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2009, 09:11:47 AM »
Fair enough, I never read it.  Apparently it wasn't that popular back then but it's gaining some with Barry at the reigns and his liberal parrot Pelosi ruining running Congress.  Just saying.   ;D

It was a pretty popular quote during the Bush years.  Odd that you would think it wouldn't be.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2009, 09:12:41 AM »
"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide." And, "There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. But a Constitution once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever."--John Adams

Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2009, 09:14:42 AM »
"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy that did not commit suicide." And, "There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. But a Constitution once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever."--John Adams

Great quote. 

Cap

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2009, 09:15:05 AM »
It was a pretty popular quote during the Bush years.  Odd that you would think it wouldn't be.
No, I just never saw the thread and it didn't get as many hits as this thread, although we have digressed a bit.  I'm not defending every Bush action so don't get that impression.  I think you are right about business fucking this country but I think our vote has more power than Samson thinks.  However, we will likely never know if there a politician that isn't being controlled.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2009, 09:20:06 AM »
No, I just never saw the thread and it didn't get as many hits as this thread, although we have digressed a bit.  I'm not defending every Bush action so don't get that impression.  I think you are right about business fucking this country but I think our vote has more power than Samson thinks.  However, we will likely never know if there a politician that isn't being controlled.
actually I posted it a few time in General, but those threads have been deleted.  Not sure if you were posting then.  I'm not sure about our vote anymore either.

Cap

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 09:21:31 AM »
actually I posted it a few time in General, but those threads have been deleted.  Not sure if you were posting then.  I'm not sure about our vote anymore either.
I might not have been, dunno to be honest.  If you happen to see, let me know  ;D.  I still think our vote is valid but the people we have to choose from are nothing special.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 09:30:03 AM »
I might not have been, dunno to be honest.  If you happen to see, let me know  ;D.  I still think our vote is valid but the people we have to choose from are nothing special.
You should check out that HBO special, Hacking Democracy.  It's pretty good, and alarming.  They nail some dems in it too.



The other parts here:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ddwormydog&view=videos&query=hacking

Slapper

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2009, 09:30:15 AM »
No, what i am saying is that the Congress is just at fault here as Bush, and now Obama.

Congress has completely abrogated its role.

So, in your words, Congress is as much a fuckup as Bush is a fuckup?

Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2009, 09:34:13 AM »
So, in your words, Congress is as much a fuckup as Bush is a fuckup?

100% percent.  They jammed through the bailouts without requiring accountability.  Remember the three page Paulson document???

They jammed through the stimulous without reading it.

They let the wars go on without accountability.

They abrogated their war making powers to the president.

   

Slapper

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2009, 09:37:49 AM »
How did these so called founding fathers create this geographical region? They did it by first killing MILLIONS of Native People who had lived in the region now called america for thousands of years.

So far as doing what one pleases...that is the reason for the moral decay in america...there are no boundaries, no guidelines, no inhibitions,  no limitations that restrict behavior. So therefore america has become a VIOLENT, CORRUPT, GREED FILLED SOCIETY that pays no regard to anything. Your government is a reflection of the society as a whole. EXCESS, GREED, WANTON, CARELESS DISREGARD, etc..Now you can SEE IT (finally) and you don't like what you see. And just as government refuses to change, so does the populace refuse to change. So on the destructive path you continue until like Frankensteins monster, your creation comes back and kills you.

And please don't try to blame the school system, or the church, or your neighbor etc etc..As long as things were going good in america no one gave a damn about anything..now that you all are moments away from poverty, a police state, homelessness, etc you are now SOOOOOOOO concerned about government, laws, people, constitution, etc...It is too late now what is coming won't be stopped and it won't be good.

Sort of like the movie KNOWING... you know what is coming and knew it was coming for some time and now that it is almost upon you...there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Look, I'm on your side on this one, and have made the same arguments you're making before. The problem is that people in this forum are a little short on "storage capacity" and you have to break some of the things down somewhat. For example the Founding Fathers seem to have hit it big here, that's why I'm trying to use it as an argument, because you can't lose with the "if it was good enough for the FF it's good enough for us" rhetoric. Hence if the FF had the idea of a free America (even though historical record show the country shamelessly going in the opposite direction, hypocritical I know, but then again this is an anglo-saxon domain and AAs are big on hypocrisy) why do we seem to be going in the opposite direction?

Cap

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2009, 09:40:40 AM »
You should check out that HBO special, Hacking Democracy.  It's pretty good, and alarming.  They nail some dems in it too.



The other parts here:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ddwormydog&view=videos&query=hacking
I will.  I am partisan (duh) but I think Repubs right now are just as stupid and gutless as Dems.  I wish the Republican party was truly conservative but sadly it is not.  Those are ideals I believe in and I see shades of it still there in some individuals but the party has clearly lost it's way.  As for Dems, I just don't believe in what they preach.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2009, 09:42:16 AM »
100% percent.  They jammed through the bailouts without requiring accountability.  Remember the three page Paulson document???

They jammed through the stimulous without reading it.

They let the wars go on without accountability.

They abrogated their war making powers to the president.

   
true, Bush may have pronounced himself The Decider with powers to do whatever he wants but Congress went right along with it and said fine by us.  And Pelosi takes the cake when she gets in and says impreachment is off the table. ::)  That has got to be the absolute worst thing to just come out and say.  Might as well say, green light Mr. President, do whatever the fuck you want and not only that, we approve.

Slapper

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2009, 09:45:44 AM »
100% percent.  They jammed through the bailouts without requiring accountability.  Remember the three page Paulson document???

They jammed through the stimulous without reading it.

They let the wars go on without accountability.

They abrogated their war making powers to the president.

Thus, using your logic, similar fault lies in she/he who commits the crime as in those who had the chance to stop the crime but didn't (for whatever reason).

W-O-W.

Cool-aid anyone?

Slapper

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2009, 09:56:31 AM »
[...]Slapper.... ::) You do see how much money Barry has spent in such a short time right?  You see how he says the the deficit will be down to 500 billion in 8 years but his REAL budget will bring the deficit to 9.3 trillion?  He's the biggest bullshit artist we have seen yet.  You can blame Bush all you want but the relaxation of the housing market was pushed big time by Mush-mouth Barney Frank and other Democrats who thought everyone deserved to be in a home.  People actually think 13 dollars a week (that they will get taxed on) is going to make any difference.  The easiest was to balance a budget is to cut spending and pay off your debt.  If Barry actually held a real job he would know that.

I've said time and time again I am not political with this issue. I ask simple questions from a non-political perspective. When I ask you who put the current administration in the current economic conumdrum I do not expect to be told that it's congress' fault. I expect you to think things out and say "Bush and his economic team". It's clear and simple. Yes, we can blame everything that's occuring now, economically speaking, on the democratic puppet, but that does not solve the underlying problem of current presidencies which is they no longer serve "For the people".

You all can fight and bitch and moan about democrats and republicans and beat around the bush (no pun intended) all you want but facts are facts. Numbers do not lie, and unless we can somehow find truth in all of this we will be beating a dead horse for many years to come:



That is who fucked up. It's no question. He is the leader and ALL blame is to be put on his sorry Texan ass.

Soul Crusher

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2009, 09:58:48 AM »
Thus, using your logic, similar fault lies in she/he who commits the crime as in those who had the chance to stop the crime but didn't (for whatever reason).

W-O-W.

Cool-aid anyone?


If congress never passed the bailout in the first place, AIG would not be in a position to give bailouts at all. 

Congress are bigger criminals IMHO than the corporations since the congress has the power to tax and confiscate.  .   

Hugo Chavez

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2009, 10:26:10 AM »
If congress never passed the bailout in the first place, AIG would not be in a position to give bailouts at all. 

Congress are bigger criminals IMHO than the corporations since the congress has the power to tax and confiscate.  .   
Congress are corporate employees ;D

wild willie

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2009, 10:47:55 AM »
It appears from his last post that is exactly what he believes.  Things went wrong only when Obama and Dems got in power. ::)


I give up. 
piss on socialism.......

wild willie

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Re: whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2009, 10:50:50 AM »
Congress are corporate employees ;D
Obama is a used car salesman.