The ABBF is suspended by the IFBB : CORRUPTION ?

[Switznegger]

Apparently Paul Graham is a prick. What is your take on this?

 

                        Didn't Billy Graham DIE???

[mrsirjojo]

If Milos was suspended for making accusations without proof, how is Chua himself now suspended if the IFBB has not yet proven his guilt?

The letter says he's suspended while they investigate....but isn't he presumed innocent in the meantime? Hasn't the IFBB done to Chua what they claimed Milos did to Chua?

[karu]

chick,

why haven't you or the IFBB congratulated Milos for exposing corruption in the ABBF?

h boy...your job in this particular case was TO INSURE THAT I WAS GIVEN FAIR AND EQUITABLE TREATMENT, and that the rules were followed on the side of the IFBB in reference to disciplinary action taken?!

And WHAT DID YOU DO EXACTLY?

You insured - WHAT?

I got investigated for my conduct (as I was reporting INTERNATIONAL CRIME) rather than Paul Chua, Asian Games judges, doping control group, official weigh-inn results, official score sheets…etc?

I reported directly from Doha to IFBB AMATEUR president (Rafael) – after first and before second day of the competition – with possibility to MAKE A DIFFERENCE - IF I was given a chance…and authority to collect my “proof”…

Upon my return I personally reported each and every detail to IFBB PRO president (Jim) and in our conversation he told me he doesn’t doubt me – but he can’t do nothing about it unless I have a proof…



And PROOF is what YOU failed to provide...three times over.  YOU were the one who decided to take matters into your own hands, and was subsequently suspended for it.  Had you followed proper procedure....it may have been a much quicker route to fact finding. Instead, all you managed to do was alert Chua that there would be inquiries made into his practices and possible wrong doing.  You were (and are)...your own worst enemy.  I didn't have to DO anything....I have nothing to do with Raphael, the Asian Games, Paul Chua....


I told him that proof is in:
1) score sheets
2) doping test
3) official weigh in results

and  certainly, I could not request for these documents – BUT HE COULD…And Jim promised that he would contact Rafael and directly ask him for it.
As I was checking with Jim – my documents never came – and he told me – Rafael never sent it…!?!


Sounds like you have a problem with Jim...I suggest you take it up with HIM.  I requested all of what you wrote in your official appeal which I submitted on your behalf at your request



Yet – I got suspended – exactly when I was ready to make a comeback – in possibly the very best shape of my life (I planned to enter EVERY CONTEST that would be organized throughout a year – as I did many times in my career – 1991, 92, 97, 99…


You got suspended for not following protcol, and not providing proof of allegations..that was YOUR choice.  You could have achieved the same thing without being suspended had you done so.  Because you're a hothead and cant control your mouth...the consequences were a direct result of your OWN actions

My photo with Jay was in Romania at 2006 Euro tour – 4 months before the Ironman 2007…that I was eager to enter.
Your boss Russ De Luca was kind enough to offer me financial help + taping of my preparation for Ironman/Arnold Classic

My boss Russ was kind enough...but it was MY idea to film your prep...which you have no idea of. Who do you think was going to do it, Russ?

Jim Lorimer invited me to compete – but suggested that I “straighten-out” things with the IFBB – so I could step on the stage…and maybe EARN MY LIVING…

As you mentioned FAIRNESS AND EQUATIBLE TREATMENT you supposedly have INSURED FOR ME…can you elaborate on that for a moment?


Absolutely...the IFBB played their hand, and suspended you for failing to provide proof. They did it by the book.  Had you presented the proof you insisted you had...they would have had no choice but to NOT suspend you. You failed to provide said proof...end of story.  There was nothing I could do for you


Not just that I was denied to compete for over 2 and a half years now…I was NOT allowed to make my living in my chosen profession and my Federation – WORLD WIDE – as Mr. Paul Chua made sure he calls every promoter I had scheduled appearance or some work…July 2007 in Japan (trip scheduled and organized BEFORE my suspension) with up to 8 appearances - was absolute disaster – as I was there – yet NOT ALLOWED to even show my face in the audience…

Same goes for some of my US and European IFBB related business opportunities – that I had to CANCEL – BECAUSE…?

Fairness and equitable treatment you are saying?

To top everything OFF – I lost my 15-year publication endorsement contract with Weider…and than couple of months later I even lost my 5 or 6 years long “gym contract" – for FLEX photo-shoots!

Additionally – loss of IFBB PRO STATUS caused me NOT to be considered for otherwise certain money-making opportunities…

Now, can you remind me WHAT DID YOU DO FOR ME?


Why do you keep asking what I could do for you?  I never said I could do ANYTHING for you, other than what I did....YOU made the allegations, YOU failed to provide proof, YOU failed to aid in your own appeal....It's your OWN actions that led to your suspension...how about taking responsibility for your OWN decisions?



As you are constantly "putting a foot in your mouth" - claiming exactly the OPPOSITE of what you are actually doing...I will let you explain here to me (and others) PARTICULARS of your "given Lips sealed" job?


I've claimed nothing I haven't done...as for putting one's "foot in their mouth"...you're the undisputed KING

Maybe "first particular" that most of us would really want to know is: HOW and WHY our President - Mr. Jim Manion made that "shocking twist" and changed the rules regarding the IFBB PRO ATHLETES REPRESENTATIVE....?


No rules were changed as there werent any rules set forth about the position other than what Wayne put together....who was REPLACED.  I took over when Shawn decided to step down...If you have such a problem with it, I suggest you get reinstated and run against me for the position....as I openly invite anyone else to do

As you were not the IFBB professional (back in 1991,2,3,4...7,8,9)  you probably don't know about all the "fights" between Wayne on one side and Shawn and myself on the other...regarding the formation of the OFFICIAL IFBB PRO REP position (pro athlete representing pro athletes - makes sense, don't you think?) - who would represent ALL OF US - THE ATHLETES (OUR NEEDS, WISHES, IDEAS...etc) and be our voice in the "Office"...How do you explain your position and/or job? Athlete for Officials? Hmmm?

I'll put my record up any day of the week for the changes made over the last 3 years....as for all your "fights"...you managed to accomplish NOTHING except fighting....no union, no rep position....ZERO. You were nowhere to be found in any form at the union meeting I organized, and have contributed NOTHING by way of proposals, ideas, etc....a lot of TALK and pissing in the wind....just like the old days, right?.....you know....back in 1991,2,3,4...7,8,9 when I wasn't a pro

For years, Wayne successfully managed to keep us unorganized and apart from each other - making sure that we don't get the Union...and start actually asking for some advances...(OMG Shocked!) and - better things!?


WRONG.....YOU successfully managed to keep YOURSELVES unorganized and apart from each other, making sure you didn't get a union


He made us aware that IN ORDER for us to have a "voice"/ athletes representative in the ifbb office - we have to come up with 51% of the total votes...

Now - how did you get your title? And what IS the title anyway?

Title is "Athletes Representative"...and how I got it was showing an interest in it....you know...something you've NEVER done, or tried...just a whole lot of hot air

Vince rightfully gave you devoted OOR title - possibly even before me (?) I am not sure...Vince - do you remember who called our "Bobby" the puppet - DEVOTED (in true sense of that word) OFFICIAL IFBB OFFICIALS REP?

Instead of athletes being represented in officials offices (adding officially - makes it more official!) - so.... instead of having official athletes rep in officials offices with possibility to demand/requests favorable changes for athletes - we got official officials representative who is "sneaking in" every wish, change, rule and/or demand coming from head office...EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what we all need...


Why not ask the athletes if the proposals I've gotten passed are "exactly the opposite" of what we need....more money, health coverage, more qualifying, a 202 division, increased per diem, etc....lets see a list from YOU of "what we need"....

[ibfasport]

chick,

why haven't you or the IFBB congratulated Milos for exposing corruption in the ABBF?

I don't understand

they have expelled sarcev to defend Poul Cha and IFBB

Now Cha says there is not IFBB

ahi ahi ahi americans 

[Chick]

chick,

why haven't you or the IFBB congratulated Milos for exposing corruption in the ABBF?

No one doubted him (at least not me)...what was needed was proof to the accusations.

I havent folowed the story enough to know if what Milos alledged was what he was suspended for, of if there were other improprieties...all I know is that the entire ABBF was suspended, including Paul Chua.

[Switznegger]

No one doubted him (at least not me)...what was needed was proof to the accusations.

I havent folowed the story enough to know if what Milos alledged was what he was suspended for, of if there were other improprieties...all I know is that the entire ABBF was suspended, including Paul Chua.

             The point is why shoot the messanger???Chick reading some of Milos post to you we all get the feeling that he thinks you are a JOKE and so is your position of athletes rep.

[Chick]

             The point is why shoot the messanger???Chick reading some of Milos post to you we all get the feeling that he thinks you are a JOKE and so is your position of athletes rep.

bBeats me...who has "shot " the messenger?  He can think whatever he wants...

[NaturalWonder83]

             The point is why shoot the messanger???Chick reading some of Milos post to you we all get the feeling that he thinks you are a JOKE and so is your position of athletes rep.

agreed
great post man

[karu]

In a round about manner you conclude that Milos was correct,

however you berate him for his troubles.

Well done.

No one doubted him (at least not me)...what was needed was proof to the accusations.

I havent folowed the story enough to know if what Milos alledged was what he was suspended for, of if there were other improprieties...all I know is that the entire ABBF was suspended, including Paul Chua.

[dickmclaren]

From: dr.vellusamyrajan@ymail.com <dr.vellusamyrajan@ymail.com>
Subject: PLEASE REPLY MY EMAILS
To: internacional@santonja.com
Cc: abbfasia@yahoo.com.sg
Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 3:18 AM


 
 
 
Dear Dr. Rafael
 
Interesting I just received a copy of one lady doctor from Indonesia by the name of Dr. Dangsina, and by co-incidence the questions are similar to mine for you Dr. Rafael.  VERY INTERESTING POINT IS THAT SHE SAYS THAT SHE WILL MAKE ARRANGEMENTS FOR YOU TO APPEAR IN THE ABBF CONGRESS FOR AN OPEN DISCUSSION IN TEHRAN, IRAN THE FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST, 2009.  WILL YOU BE ACCEPTING THIS CHALLENGE OR YOU WILL CHICKEN OUT? THERE WILL BE NO CONDITIONS I BELIEVE AND MR. AXEL BAUER WILL ALSO BE INVITED ACCORDING TO HER.   THIS IS VERY, VERY INTERESTING, I LOOK FORWARD TO HEAR FROM YOU SIR.
 
 
By the by, you are keeping quiet and did not respond to my 2  emails.  I do not know the actual reasons, Sir,  I am  compelled to send this email  to WADA, GAISF, IWGF and IOC and to your National Olympic Committee and Home Ministry if I fail to hear from you within 24 hours.  This is not a threat but I want ANSWERS TO HELP MY POOR BODYBUILDERS IN INDIA..
 
As professionals, we must keep our dignity and should attend to all emails. I guess that you feel angry with me because of my inquisitive questions. I believe you are  ashamed of the entire episode going on - YOU MUST FACE ALL THESE DR. RAFAEL JUST LIKE OUR DEAR LEADER BEN WEIDER FACED SO MANY OBSTACLES WITH SERGE NUBRET, NABBA, WABBA AND IF YOU CAN'T THEN PLEASE QUIT.  Dr. Rafael you are not a gentleman.  I would have expected you to the least to acknowledge my emails.  But you prefer to remain silent? 
 
I am not defending anyone which includes Dr. Paul Chua or the ABBF, I am for the poor Indian bodybuilders in my country.  I do not want  them to be misled by your federation and they end no where.  So much confusion in India, the group you are backing said to have cheated the federations' funds and this is a disgrace. You are supporting one man called Suresh Pai, he is a weight lifting man and many in the bodybuilding sport does not like this man.
 
From what I understand WADA raided and did the dope testing in the European Championships, and certainly there will be many positive cases.  I believe IFBB has many doping cases over the years.   Will you openly announce the DOPING RESULTS of all the World Championships, European Championships and Asian Championships over the past 10 years.  I hope that you could supply this vital information. We need the TRUTH...WHY HIDE. I am asking you this because of the Brazilian case Jose where the IFBB tried to cheat and cover up for him.
 
Again may I humbly ask  WHY you  allow doping athletes to participate in the World Games.  This is a SHAME.  What will happen if the IWGF investigate on this?   Surely this Will lead to more problems.
 
I understand that many countries are pulling out of the World Games because you are not keeping to your word to test athletes out of competition. Your Prof. Maurico sent a Circular but this has not been carried out.  I was told that this Circular was sent just to please the IWGF?  It seem to me that since you took over the presidentship by the Joint Agreement between you and the late Ben Weider, the curse is falling on you because of your greed for power. Put on the brake and think please!!!!!!!
 
 
Dr. Vellusamy Rajan
 

[noworries]

This thread is funny.  Chic fighting a fight he isn't and can't win.  Kind of like that guy in Monty Python who never gave up the fight.

[Chick]

This thread is funny.  Chic fighting a fight he isn't and can't win.  Kind of like that guy in Monty Python who never gave up the fight.

What fight is that?

My only issue is with Milos and his slanted versions of the truth....as for the whole situation....I have nothing to do with it.

[Switznegger]

What fight is that?

My only issue is with Milos and his slanted versions of the truth....as for the whole situation....I have nothing to do with it.

                         Milos "slanted" and what does that mean Rep???FFS for a Rep you sure do burn your people.

[WEIBK]

What fight is that?

My only issue is with Milos and his slanted versions of the truth....as for the whole situation....I have nothing to do with it.

I AGREE MILOS WAS FIGHTING FOR THE TRUTH, AND AT THE END HE GOT IT, BUT THE WAY HE ACTED TO PROOF TOOK A LONG TIME., BECAUSE JIM AND IFBB CORPORATION FROM PRESIDENT RAFAEL TO HIS SENIOR OFFICERS ALL WAS AGAINST MILOS, DUE TO THEIR CORRUPT.

[Switznegger]

A lot of Crooks are Now losing money because of Milos he should watch his back.FFS Not even his Rep is on his side.

[timfogarty]

I AGREE MILOS WAS FIGHTING FOR THE TRUTH, AND AT THE END HE GOT IT, BUT THE WAY HE ACTED TO PROOF TOOK A LONG TIME., BECAUSE JIM AND IFBB CORPORATION FROM PRESIDENT RAFAEL TO HIS SENIOR OFFICERS ALL WAS AGAINST MILOS, DUE TO THEIR CORRUPT.

you need to learn the difference between corruption and hypocrisy.  Corruption is deciding contest placings based on what's in your best financial interest.  Hypocrisy is claiming to be a drug free organization but knowing that every one of your top athletes is not, and that drug testing is done only to the extent to have plausible deniability.  Corruption is requiring athletes or their country's organization to pay you for the athlete to place.  Hypocrisy is selectively enforcing rules.

[Switznegger]

you need to learn the difference between corruption and hypocrisy.  Corruption is deciding contest placings based on what's in your best financial interest.  Hypocrisy is claiming to be a drug free organization but knowing that every one of your top athletes is not, and that drug testing is done only to the extent to have plausible deniability.  Corruption is requiring athletes or their country's organization to pay you for the athlete to place.  Hypocrisy is selectively enforcing rules.

 

           Sounds to me they are GUILTY on all charges.

[dickmclaren]

From: Dangsina Moeloek <m.dangsina@yahoo.com>
Subject: Respons
To: "Rafael Santonja" <international@santonja.com>
Cc: "Alshafar UAE" <osama@alshafar.ae>, "Chua Paul" <abbfasia@yahoo.com.sg>
Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 3:45 PM


 
Dear Rafael,
 
 
This is disgraceful and shameful that you are keeping quiet and supporting competitions which are tainted with drugs. Remember you are a member of WADA. At the same time you pick fault against Mr. Paul Chua saying that he concealed the doping results of the 2005 and  reduced the suspension of the 3 athletes from Hongkong from 2 years to 1 year.   The IFBB supported the reductions and YOU are definitely aware of this.  Since you do not see eye-to-eye with Mr. Chua you have now conveniently taken the warpath to attack him.  You are not a gentleman RAFAEL. 
 
Never have I seen a man claiming to be a President ignorning all the emails.
You are scared and hiding.  I look forward to your reply about my offer for you to be in Tehran, Iran to address the ABBF Congress with Question and Answers.  I spoke to ABBF Officials and they are ready to take you on.  Come on Rafael if you are honest and a true gentleman -  PLEASE ACCEPT THIS OFFER.
 
Dr. Dangsina Moeloek
Chairperson, ABBF Medical Committee
 
 

[timfogarty]

Cc: "Chua Paul" <abbfasia@yahoo.com.sg>

Dick, all the emails you've posted have only one address in common, that of Chua's.  So we can assume that you're someone in Chua's office.

This is disgraceful and shameful that you are keeping quiet and supporting competitions which are tainted with drugs.

No one in bodybuilding believes that the athletes at the Asian Amateur Championships or the World Amateur Championships are drug free.   No one believes that the executives of the IFBB or the ABBF believes that the athletes are drug free, or that these executives really want a truly drug free contest.

You are scared and hiding.  I look forward to your reply about my offer for you to be in Tehran, Iran to address the ABBF Congress with Question and Answers.  I spoke to ABBF Officials and they are ready to take you on.  Come on Rafael if you are honest and a true gentleman -  PLEASE ACCEPT THIS OFFER.

Will Chua be willing to answer questions about years of exchanging placings at the Asian Amateur Championships for money?

[WEIBK]

you need to learn the difference between corruption and hypocrisy.  Corruption is deciding contest placings based on what's in your best financial interest.  Hypocrisy is claiming to be a drug free organization but knowing that every one of your top athletes is not, and that drug testing is done only to the extent to have plausible deniability.  Corruption is requiring athletes or their country's organization to pay you for the athlete to place.  Hypocrisy is selectively enforcing rules.

THANKS FOR YOUR INFORMATION, AND I DO UNDERSTAND, ABOUT THE TWO WORDS MEANING, AND BOTHE APPLY FOR IFBB.

[Schmoe Buster]

THANKS FOR YOUR INFORMATION, AND I DO UNDERSTAND, ABOUT THE TWO WORDS MEANING, AND BOTHE APPLY FOR IFBB.

Sadly they apply to both the IFBB and the ABBF, the victim is the sport of bodybuilding

[ibfasport]

Sadly they apply to both the IFBB and the ABBF, the victim is the sport of bodybuilding

NABBA split in 2 federation in 2001, now it is the turn of the IFBB

you made a great mistake bodybuilding competition is not sport it is show

trainig is sport
 

[Schmoe Buster]

NABBA split in 2 federation in 2001, now it is the turn of the IFBB
 

The IFBB is a lot more international than NABBA, the is no real NABBA presence in Asia

[WEIBK]

The IFBB is a lot more international than NABBA, the is no real NABBA presence in Asia

MY FREIND TO MY KNOWLEDEGE THERE IS NABBA IN ASIA AND SPECIALY IN INDIA. NABBA ARE MORE TRANSPRANCE THAN IFBB, THEY NEVER CHEAT AND HIDE THE RESULTS AS IFBB DO, NOW IFBB EXPOSE, AND IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY UNDER INTERNATIONAL BODY BUILDERS INC. NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, AND FOR THE THE LAST 40 YEARS THEY WAS HIDING THIS TRUTH FROM ALL, AND NOW IFBB CORPORATION EXPOSED.

[Schmoe Buster]

MY FREIND TO MY KNOWLEDEGE THERE IS NABBA IN ASIA AND SPECIALY IN INDIA. NABBA ARE MORE TRANSPRANCE THAN IFBB, THEY NEVER CHEAT AND HIDE THE RESULTS AS IFBB DO, NOW IFBB EXPOSE, AND IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY UNDER INTERNATIONAL BODY BUILDERS INC. NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, AND FOR THE THE LAST 40 YEARS THEY WAS HIDING THIS TRUTH FROM ALL, AND NOW IFBB CORPORATION EXPOSED.

Yes there are pockets of NABBA in Asia, but the ABBF/IFBB is the biggest in the region. I would hope that NABBA and maybe WABBA would expand into Asia, especially East Asia more as to give athletes from the region more chances to compete and to further develop the sport here in this part of the world.
NABBA do not drug test and have no anti doping policy, in some ways this appears better as it blocks one area where corruption and hiding of truth cannot happen. I do not know much about NABBA's judging but have not heard anything bad about bribery and selling places etc as you rightly said they are more transparent than the IFBB.
If the ABBF have really separated from the IFBB then it is hopeful the ABBF would work hard to reform and show a more transparent federation. Every cloud has a silver lining.