Author Topic: Gay adoption?  (Read 18563 times)

BayGBM

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Gay adoption?
« on: April 07, 2009, 07:17:58 AM »
Do you support gay adoption?  In an ideal world, orphaned children in the USA and abroad would be raised by their biological parents, but natural death, poverty, disease, and war, have created more than 100 million orphans around the world!  Most of these children will lead lives of utter misery (if they are lucky).  The rest will die premature deaths.

In another thread http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=20939.msg2991700#msg2991700 I suggested that there is a correlation between children who need homes and potential gay parents who want to adopt.  These parents have the means to raise a family, but do not adopt because society has made it too difficult with laws, religious views, and other hurdles that are enough to discourage them.  Instead these potential parents forget about adoption entirely or they bend over backwards to have their own kids via surrogacy, sperm banks, etc.

What would you say to an orphaned child across the globe (whose entire family or country may not share your religious views) about why should they should face life in foster care, an orphanage, misery, or death rather than be adopted into a gay or lesbian household?


big L dawg

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 07:25:27 AM »
anyone that doesn't support gay adoption should not oppose abortion.
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loco

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 08:48:34 AM »
anyone that doesn't support gay adoption should not oppose abortion.

That's your opinion.

If somebody opposes abortion and homosexuality for religious reasons, that person would naturally also oppose gay adoptions.  To this person, neither abortion nor gay adoption is good for the child.

garebear

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 09:27:47 AM »
anyone that doesn't support gay adoption should not oppose abortion.

Great Post.
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MCWAY

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 09:52:18 AM »
Do you support gay adoption?  In an ideal world, orphaned children in the USA and abroad would be raised by their biological parents, but natural death, poverty, disease, and war, have created more than 100 million orphans around the world!  Most of these children will lead lives of utter misery (if they are lucky).  The rest will die premature deaths.

In another thread http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=20939.msg2991700#msg2991700 I suggested that there is a correlation between children who need homes and potential gay parents who want to adopt.  These parents have the means to raise a family, but do not adopt because society has made it too difficult with laws, religious views, and other hurdles that are enough to discourage them.  Instead these potential parents forget about adoption entirely or they bend over backwards to have their own kids via surrogacy, sperm banks, etc.

They could just bite the bullet and have babies the old-fashioned way. Some "lesbians" have resorted to that.


What would you say to an orphaned child across the globe (whose entire family or country may not sure your religious views) about why should they should face life in foster care, an orphanage, misery, or death rather than be adopted into a gay or lesbian household?


Loco put it quite nicely. If somebody opposes abortion and homosexuality for religious reasons, that somebody would want what was best for that child (that, of course, would a home with a MOM and a DAD).

drkaje

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 10:03:27 AM »
I'm on the fence about gay adoption because current laws don't adequately protect traditional couple's rights. Throwing same-sex couples into the mix before getting the laws fixed makes no sense.

People who oppose gay adoption are generally accused of being bigoted or advancing the idea that every gay is a potential child molester.

MCWAY

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2009, 10:10:56 AM »
I'm on the fence about gay adoption because current laws don't adequately protect traditional couple's rights. Throwing same-sex couples into the mix before getting the laws fixed makes no sense.

There are a growing number of cases, about same-sex couples with kids, involving custody battles. The most famous to date is one involving a woman named Lisa Miller. Bascially, she and her lesbian buddy got a civil union in Vermont and Miller had a baby, via artificial insemination. Both are residents of Virginia.

Miller became a Christian and, citing (among other reasons) abuse in the relationship, the civil union got dissolved. The other woman, Janet Jenkins, has no adoption or any legal tie to the child. Yet, Vermont ordered that they share custody. But, that clashes with Virginia's law that only recognizes marriage between a man and a woman and (as of 2006) enforces no court order or statute, based on gay "marriage" or a civil union.

Throw in the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) that says no state has to recognize gay "marriage" or a civil union from another state, and you have yet more legal issues in the mix.

fitt@40

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 10:57:20 AM »
People who oppose gay adoption are generally accused of being bigoted or advancing the idea that every gay is a potential child molester.

As Loco pointed out, a Christian person is going to oppose gay adoption because God views the act (homosexuality) as sinful.  As a Christian, I am also opposed to a liar, thief, adultery, fornicator or any sinful person adopting a child.  The Bible teaches us that we are to train our kids in the way of the Lord.  How can we do this if we knowingly sin ourselves? 

I quote you Drkaje because I hear this all the time.  I am told that I have homophobia, and that I am a bigot.  I do not fear the idea of homosexuality.  In fact, I respect anyone's decision to chose that lifestyle.  However, that does not mean that I will ignore the fact that God says it is a sin. 

Migs

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 07:58:06 PM »
As long as they can be good parents, i'm fine with it.  I'm also for gay marriage.

I also believe that we should fix our own "house" before going abroad and fixing theirs. 

Eisenherz

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 08:15:15 PM »
My concern is that a child thats being braught up by a couple of fags will grow up to be a fag themself.
Since children are molded by their environment/ upbringing, I would have a huge concern about my kids going to a school and mixing with other kids that are being braught up as fags.

garebear

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 08:22:04 PM »
My concern is that a child thats being braught up by a couple of fags will grow up to be a fag themself.
Since children are molded by their environment/ upbringing, I would have a huge concern about my kids going to a school and mixing with other kids that are being braught up as fags.


I would have a huge concern about my kids being around you.
G

Eisenherz

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 08:26:39 PM »
I would have a huge concern about my kids being around you.

Why, are they fags?

drkaje

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 09:00:59 PM »
My concern is that a child thats being braught up by a couple of fags will grow up to be a fag themself.
Since children are molded by their environment/ upbringing, I would have a huge concern about my kids going to a school and mixing with other kids that are being braught up as fags.


There's no evidence to support the idea that children raised by gays are any gayer than the typical 10%.

BayGBM

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 09:02:22 PM »
Too Old for Foster Care, and Facing the Recession
By JULIE BOSMAN

Even in boom times, young people who become too old for the foster-care system often struggle to make it on their own, lacking families, job skills or adequate educations. Now, the recession has made the challenges of life after foster care even more formidable, especially for those seeking federal housing vouchers, which are contingent on having an income.

Since the beginning of this year, the city’s Administration for Children’s Services has been providing letters to those about to leave the foster care system, certifying that they are likely to be eligible for public assistance and thus easing the application process when they are ready. Yet, many child-welfare advocates worry that a growing number will still end up homeless.

“They get a lot of resources until they’re 21, and then essentially none,” said James J. Golden, the executive director of the Edwin Gould Academy in East Harlem, which provides housing exclusively to former foster children. “It’s like falling off a cliff for some of them.”

In New York, foster children are allowed to leave the system when they turn 18 but can stay until 21; last year, 407 wards turned 21, while 547 opted out early — 375 at age 18, and 172 at 19 or 20.

Once discharged from the system, some move in with family or friends, get jobs or go to college. Others apply for welfare as their sole source of income, and often end up homeless.

Administrators at the Chelsea Foyer at the Christopher, which houses dozens of former and current foster youths, said that typically, 90 percent of their residents were employed, but that in February only 70 percent had jobs.

“They are the low man on the totem pole for jobs anyway,” said Jerome Kilbane, the executive director of Covenant House New York, a nonprofit that operates shelters for young people. “Now they are even more at a disadvantage.”

Michael Smith, 20, said he was increasingly anxious as he approached the day in August that he will have to leave his foster home in Brooklyn. He has been searching for work since October, leaving résumés at places like McDonald’s and the clothing stores Express and H & M.

Mr. Smith graduated from high school in Queens in 2006 and went to Kingsborough Community College, but he dropped out after his sickle-cell anemia caused him to miss class frequently.

“I’m coming up to my 21st birthday, when I’m no longer going to be supported,” Mr. Smith said. “I feel overlooked all the times I do go apply for these jobs. But I have to do this, or else I’ll be out on the street.”

Officials at the Administration for Children’s Services say they do everything possible to avert that, including the letters that help smooth the application process for public assistance.

The child-welfare agency and the 36 foster-care groups with which it contracts begin to prepare children for independence as early as age 14. There are workshops on budgeting, job hunting, how to sign up for health insurance and how to negotiate with a landlord over rent.

At age 19, foster youths begin to talk to caseworkers about housing options, which commonly include Section 8 vouchers, public housing projects and supportive housing, where counseling and job training might be available on site.

The Administration for Children’s Services provides a one-time stipend of $750 as a cushion to foster youths when they exit the system. They are also eligible for a monthly payment of $300 from the city, from the time the leave foster care until they are 21 ½, if they are not receiving any other public housing subsidy, such as Section 8.

Most of those leaving foster care are entitled to Section 8, which typically allows tenants to rent apartments for one-third of their monthly income. But that means they need income to qualify. And with unemployment rates in New York rising precipitously, foster-care workers are worried.

“To be honest, I’m afraid that our youth are really going to be unable to secure housing,” said Jane Feyder, the assistant director at the New York Foundling Fontana Center for Child Protection. “They don’t have the work experience that other people have who are looking for jobs right now. They’re competing with so many other people who have advantages over them.”

Even advocates for foster youth acknowledge that they are a particularly difficult group to employ.

Many lack high school diplomas, having spent adolescence being shuttled from home to home. The responsibilities of a first job can come as a shock, and many quit out of frustration.

“A year ago, if they’d lose one $9- an-hour job, there was usually another one that we could find them,” Mr. Golden said. “Now it’s a little more costly to become unemployed.”

One of the former foster children in his care, Jessica Molina, landed a job in January 2008, working in computer technology at Merrill Lynch. She was laid off in June when the company downsized, and has been working at temporary jobs since.

“Like everyone else, I have my fingers crossed that I’ll find something,” Ms. Molina, 22, said. But looking at the gaps in her résumé, she is often reminded of the constant moves between group homes she endured during her teenage years. “Sometimes you’re looked at as a castaway,” she said. “It’s like coming from a totally different place.”

Brenda Tully, the program director for Chelsea Foyer at the Christopher, said residents have been laid off or seen their hours reduced at jobs in gyms, nightclubs and clothing stores.

“There’s a much greater fear among the young people about what to expect,” Ms. Tully said. “They are very, very concerned that they’re not going to be able to find housing that’s affordable.”

Stephany Diaz, a housing specialist for New York Foundling, one of the city’s largest foster-care agencies, said she has begun prodding youths to apply for public assistance once they are officially discharged from care.

“I used to discourage them to go down that route,” she said. “But now we almost have to.”

Since 2002, the Administration for Children’s Services has tried to move teenagers out of group homes and into foster care, hoping that when the time comes to leave, the children would have families to turn to.

“We want children to leave care with a loving, caring and supportive adult who’s going to continue to work with them long past their 21st birthday,” said Lorraine Stephens, a deputy commissioner at the Administration for Children’s Services. “We don’t want any kid to leave without someone connected to them.”

But many children have tenuous connections to foster families, at best.

Mr. Smith, whose aunt is his foster parent, said staying with her after his 21st birthday is not an option. “She’s moving in with her boyfriend,” he said.

Melissa Diaz, 19, left the foster care system more than a year ago, shortly after her foster mother died. Ms. Diaz later moved to Covenant House, and after nearly three months of searching found a job stocking shelves at Duane Reade.

She is training to become a nursing assistant and trying to earn enough money to become independent and afford housing on her own. “That would be great,” she said. “It would be a blessing from God.”

Eisenherz

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 09:18:05 PM »
There's no evidence to support the idea that children raised by gays are any gayer than the typical 10%.

You're extreme naive thinking that homosexual parents wont raise their adopted children to be like them.

elite_lifter

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 09:31:13 PM »
Takes a Male and a Female to produce a child, doesn't it make sense that it would take a Male and Female to raise a child w/the attributes a Male and Female have to offer.
I am a big baby

Eisenherz

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2009, 09:41:00 PM »
Bay, not many people are stupid enough to not see through your whole "legalize gay marriage/parenting for the poor refugees/homeless kids" BS.

Deicide

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 04:00:59 AM »
As Loco pointed out, a Christian person is going to oppose gay adoption because God views the act (homosexuality) as sinful.  As a Christian, I am also opposed to a liar, thief, adultery, fornicator or any sinful person adopting a child.  The Bible teaches us that we are to train our kids in the way of the Lord.  How can we do this if we knowingly sin ourselves? 

I quote you Drkaje because I hear this all the time.  I am told that I have homophobia, and that I am a bigot.  I do not fear the idea of homosexuality.  In fact, I respect anyone's decision to chose that lifestyle.  However, that does not mean that I will ignore the fact that God says it is a sin. 

It's not a choice; did you wake up one day and on the whim of a coin toss decide to like women? ::)
I hate the State.

Deicide

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 04:02:18 AM »
Why, are they fags?

I see your true colours shining through...
I hate the State.

Eisenherz

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 06:16:55 AM »
It's not a choice; did you wake up one day and on the whim of a coin toss decide to like women? ::)


drkaje

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2009, 06:41:43 AM »
You're extreme naive thinking that homosexual parents wont raise their adopted children to be like them.

I'm just not one to confuse opinion with fact.

Sir Humphrey

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2009, 07:19:26 AM »
Do you support gay adoption?  In an ideal world, orphaned children in the USA and abroad would be raised by their biological parents....



Something tells me you don't quite grasp the meaning of the word "orphaned"!

tonymctones

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 07:40:29 AM »
fact is that nature and nuture go in to the development of ppl...you really think a person who grows up in an entirely homosexual world will turn out to be straight? truth is if thats all they knew they would probably turn out to be gay. Being homosexual is not an entirely genetic issue it also has a choice component to it. We all have the capacity to be homosexuals, look at jail populations a good number of ppl who take place in gay sex acts in jail havent before hand or go back to being straight outside. The studies out do show however that children raised by gays do grow up to be well adjusted ppl in around the same % as if raised by straights, and not a abnormal % being gay. I think this could change though when being homosexual becomes much more socially acceptable i wouldnt be suprised to see the % of children reared by gays be gay raise.

 Short story long no im not for gay adoption

garebear

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2009, 08:30:58 AM »
Why, are they fags?

It's grow up time ... and you're late.
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fitt@40

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Re: Gay adoption?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2009, 08:45:20 AM »
It's not a choice; did you wake up one day and on the whim of a coin toss decide to like women? ::)

Actually I somewhat agree with you.  There are many gays who are born that way....yep, my Christian brothers and sisters, I said that!  For those who are born gay, it is as natural for them to be with the same sex as it is for me (a man) to be with a woman.  Where I vehemently disagree with you is that God did not have a hand in them being born that way.  Why would God create something that He has identified as sinful?  You may ask what sin can a person who is yet to be born commit.  As it has been talked about in other threads, there are things that our ancestors can do that will cause generational curses.  Most people will readily accept the fact that something like cancer can be passed from one generation to the next.  In many cases, homosexuality is nothing more than sin being passed on.  To understand this, one must know that sin and sickness are not of God.  If one believes the Bible to be true, he or she must acknowledge homosexuality is sinful.

I say that I somewhat agree with you because there are many folks who do decide on whim to practice homosexuality.  With women, it is almost to the point whereby it is cool to have "experimented."   Before you blast me with how much a bigot, closed-minded or delusional, I say you should rest easy.  The time is coming when homosexuality will be widely accepted.  I think many people would be shock at how many people are in the closet.  However, it still will not change the fact that God has called it sinful.