Interesting Christian views on Waterboarding

[fitt@40]

I have a different take Fitt.  There are many things that are the result of sin:  death, dying, pain, suffering, killing, killing in self defense, etc.  I put war in that category. 

We cannot simply call ourselves Christians, and citizens of a certain country, then sit back and do nothing to defend the country.  We can no more refuse to protect our citizens through armed conflict than we can disarm our law enforcement, stop maintaining the roads, eliminate firefighters, etc.  In my view, there is nothing inconsistent about being a Christian and being a member of society, including contributing to the well-being of society. 

It really isn't possible to hide in our houses and ask God to defend us.  IMO there is always an action requirement on our part.  Reminds me of my favorite Homer Simpson prayer:  "Lord, if you don't want me to do this, please say absolutely nothing."    

Much of this is indeed a matter of conscience.  Some people think drinking alcohol is a sin.  Some don't think it's appropriate to eat whatever you want.  Some think you have to dress a certain, way, wear certain headgear, etc.  I know some who think Christians should not serve in the military.  I actually had a debate with a pastor who served as a chaplain in the military and believed any Christian who served should serve in a noncombat role.  I told him he was no different than a grunt who pulls the trigger, because a Chaplain helps a soldier satisfy spiritual needs, which then makes the soldier a more effective killing machine.  He disagreed.   

But at the end of the day, this whole waterboarding thing is pretty silly, especially as some sort of religious litmus test. 

There are many things that are the result of sin:  death, dying, pain, suffering, killing, killing in self defense, etc.  I put war in that category.  
B-Bum, I am not certain of your intent for this statement.  You say that these things are the result of sin, and you include war with them.  Was it your intent to say that killing in self-defense and killing in war are the same, and that neither is a sin?

I do agree that Christians have the responsibility to help defend our nation, but do we help defend in all situations?  I was a soldier, so I know that, for the most part, we do not get to chose which battles we fight.  There is the option of being a conscientious objector, but I must admit that I know very little about it.  We know from the Bible that God will have us engage in war, but these wars are on His behalf.  The war we are engaged in this very moment has nothing to do with God.  This is where it gets extremely complicated, and I readily admit I do not have all of the answers.  I retire a little over two years ago, but I did not have to go to the war.  In fact, in my 20 years of service, I did not serve in any conflicts or wars.  A trusted minister tells me that God had His hand in that.  I do not know if that is true or not, but I know that I did nothing personally to avoid serving.  Had I been chosen to go, I would have gone.   I would not have told the lie that I was there because I wanted to help liberate the Iraqi people from Hussein or that I was there because of the war on terror.  I do not wish to dig deep into politics, but facts are facts.  In my opinion, if we really wanted to fight the terrorist, we would have sent more troops into Afghanistan early on, and we would have pressured the Saudis to do more....I know, the oil.

You say that this can be about conscience, but what does God say about it.  God gives instructions on eating, drinking alcohol and the wearing of clothes.  Maybe I do somewhat understand what you mean by conscience.  A nun wears a habit to show (I would assume) modesty.  When I was still of the world, I saw pornographic pictures of women wearing pieces of a habit.  You may also be right in that people who think like me simply do not belong in the military.  Again, I still do not have the answers on this issue.  Rest assured I will because I am seeking the answer from God. 
May God Bless you.

[Deicide]

To answer your questions I must define what a Christian nation would be.  It would be a nation that has put the Will of God first.  But what does that really mean?  What would America have to do to become a Christian nation?  Our leaders (political and religious) would have to live and believe in the Word of God.  Today we have many who leaders (political and religious) who profess before man that they are Christians, but live sinful lives when they think eyes are not on them.  The separation of church and state would be closed.  Please do not misunderstand what I am saying; we would not be bound by any laws of God.  To suggest so would nullify the Grace we have through the sacrifice Christ made for us.  What would happen is man's laws would be made based on the Word of God.  For example, as it stands now, there is nothing illegal about two single adults engaging in consentual  sex.  God says sex should only be between husband and wife.  If we were to become a Christian nation, our law would reflect the same.

How would God defend us?  There is no doubt we would be protected from other nations.  God says if just two or more people come together in His name, He would be there.  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.  (Matthew 18:20)  Can you imagine a whole nation coming together in his name?  God would not have us to conquer other nations.  That is not what He has instructed us to do.  He would have us share His Word with the world, but never force it on anyone.  

The Bible teaches us that just the opposite is going to happen.  Our nation and the rest of the world are going to drift farther and farther away from God.  

Shocking how deluded some people can be...must take real effort.

[fitt@40]

Shocking how deluded some people can be...must take real effort.

I ask you once again, why do you post here?  You have made your point time and time again.  You have spewed your lies and foolishness, yet you still come back.  I say it is to push the agenda of he who inspires you.  Whatever the case may be, I still have you in my prayers.

[Deicide]

I ask you once again, why do you post here?  You have made your point time and time again.  You have spewed your lies and foolishness, yet you still come back.  I say it is to push the agenda of he who inspires you.  Whatever the case may be, I still have you in my prayers.

Yeah...I get paid $1000 an hour by Beelzebub himself....

[Straw Man]

To answer your questions I must define what a Christian nation would be.  It would be a nation that has put the Will of God first.  But what does that really mean?  What would America have to do to become a Christian nation?  Our leaders (political and religious) would have to live and believe in the Word of God.  Today we have many who leaders (political and religious) who profess before man that they are Christians, but live sinful lives when they think eyes are not on them.  The separation of church and state would be closed.  Please do not misunderstand what I am saying; we would not be bound by any laws of God.  To suggest so would nullify the Grace we have through the sacrifice Christ made for us.  What would happen is man's laws would be made based on the Word of God.  For example, as it stands now, there is nothing illegal about two single adults engaging in consentual  sex.  God says sex should only be between husband and wife.  If we were to become a Christian nation, our law would reflect the same.

How would God defend us?  There is no doubt we would be protected from other nations.  God says if just two or more people come together in His name, He would be there.  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.  (Matthew 18:20)  Can you imagine a whole nation coming together in his name?  God would not have us to conquer other nations.  That is not what He has instructed us to do.  He would have us share His Word with the world, but never force it on anyone.  

The Bible teaches us that just the opposite is going to happen.  Our nation and the rest of the world are going to drift farther and farther away from God.  

ok....where to start....?

putting aside for the moment that from my completely secular perspective, statements like this sound completely nutty (no offense intended), can you "imagine a whole nation coming together in his name".   I don't even know what that means.  The super religious christians on this board can't even agree on basic stuff involving their own religion so how would an entire nation ever get on the same page?  Also, why does God even care about "nations".   Could't it just be a city of people or even just a "compound".  Kind of like the Branch Davidians or that group in Texas where all the woman wear the same clothes and have tons of kids (can't recall the name).   As long as they were all true believer in the "right way" wouldn't God recognize them and defend them from all enemies

btw - just for some context, I'm curiuos if you were indoctrinated into this belief system at a young age or if you adopted it later in life.

[fitt@40]

ok....where to start....?

putting aside for the moment that from my completely secular perspective, statements like this sound completely nutty (no offense intended), can you "imagine a whole nation coming together in his name".   I don't even know what that means.  The super religious christians on this board can't even agree on basic stuff involving their own religion so how would an entire nation ever get on the same page?  Also, why does God even care about "nations".   Could't it just be a city of people or even just a "compound".  Kind of like the Branch Davidians or that group in Texas where all the woman wear the same clothes and have tons of kids (can't recall the name).   As long as they were all true believer in the "right way" wouldn't God recognize them and defend them from all enemies

btw - just for some context, I'm curiuos if you were indoctrinated into this belief system at a young age or if you adopted it later in life.

Absolutely no offense taken.

A nation coming together in His name simply means a nation that is unified in putting God's Will first.  The scripture I quote speaks of two of more coming together in prayer and/or praise and worship.  Certainly it is physically impossible for a nation to do this at one time.  However, if a nation were to truly put God's Will first, there would be far more coming together in His Name.  I do agree with you in that many Christians disagree on a lot of issues.  This comes from a lack of understanding, pushing one's own agenda, and tricks of satan.  As you stated, you are secular, therefore, what I propose is going to sound foolish to you. 

Why does God care about a nation?  We were created by God and for God.  This does not apply to a city, town or even a nation.  It applies to everyone.  Groups like the branch davidians do not represent Christianity.  You may ask how can I say who represents Christians.  That would be a very good question.  As Christians, we have really diluted the Word of God.  We have added man-made ideas and practices.  If you want to know a true Christian, find someone who only wants the Will of God to be done. You asked, "As long as they were all true believer in the "right way" wouldn't God recognize them and defend them from all enemies"  God does defend His followers.  That does not mean that we will not suffer or be persecuted.  God does things in His time, not ours.  The people of Israel suffer 400 years in Egypt before God freed them.  I cannot explain why He chose to wait.  Whenever I do not understand things about God, I do one of two things.  I either seek answers through prayer, or I simply "do  not lean to my own understanding."  I am quite sure that will sound nutty to you too.

For the record, there is no such thing as a super religious Christian.  Either a person is a Christian or he or she is not.

I have spoken about my Christian background in other threads.  I was not raised in a Christian home.  I did not go to Church as a child and teenager; though I had some religious experiences.  I readily admit that there is much for me to learn about the Father and His Son. 

[Straw Man]

For the record, there is no such thing as a super religious Christian.  Either a person is a Christian or he or she is not.

I have spoken about my Christian background in other threads.  I was not raised in a Christian home.  I did not go to Church as a child and teenager; though I had some religious experiences.  I readily admit that there is much for me to learn about the Father and His Son. 

can a Christian have fundamental disagreement with your point of view and still (from your perspective) be a Christian?

I haven't read your other threads but I'm curious if you came to become a Christian as a way of overcoming/replacing some problem in your life such as alcholism or something else.  Just wondering?

[Dos Equis]

There are many things that are the result of sin:  death, dying, pain, suffering, killing, killing in self defense, etc.  I put war in that category.  
B-Bum, I am not certain of your intent for this statement.  You say that these things are the result of sin, and you include war with them.  Was it your intent to say that killing in self-defense and killing in war are the same, and that neither is a sin?

I do agree that Christians have the responsibility to help defend our nation, but do we help defend in all situations?  I was a soldier, so I know that, for the most part, we do not get to chose which battles we fight.  There is the option of being a conscientious objector, but I must admit that I know very little about it.  We know from the Bible that God will have us engage in war, but these wars are on His behalf.  The war we are engaged in this very moment has nothing to do with God.  This is where it gets extremely complicated, and I readily admit I do not have all of the answers.  I retire a little over two years ago, but I did not have to go to the war.  In fact, in my 20 years of service, I did not serve in any conflicts or wars.  A trusted minister tells me that God had His hand in that.  I do not know if that is true or not, but I know that I did nothing personally to avoid serving.  Had I been chosen to go, I would have gone.   I would not have told the lie that I was there because I wanted to help liberate the Iraqi people from Hussein or that I was there because of the war on terror.  I do not wish to dig deep into politics, but facts are facts.  In my opinion, if we really wanted to fight the terrorist, we would have sent more troops into Afghanistan early on, and we would have pressured the Saudis to do more....I know, the oil.

You say that this can be about conscience, but what does God say about it.  God gives instructions on eating, drinking alcohol and the wearing of clothes.  Maybe I do somewhat understand what you mean by conscience.  A nun wears a habit to show (I would assume) modesty.  When I was still of the world, I saw pornographic pictures of women wearing pieces of a habit.  You may also be right in that people who think like me simply do not belong in the military.  Again, I still do not have the answers on this issue.  Rest assured I will because I am seeking the answer from God. 
May God Bless you.

Yes I view killing in self defense and killing in war the same and I don't think either one is a sin.

In my view, if a person who happens to be Christian joins the military, he or she has an obligation to defend the country "in all situations."  You either commit to serve and help support the mission, or don't join. 

Many moons ago when I was joining the military, the recruiter asked me if I was a conscientious objector.  I said "I don't know, what does that mean?"  He then asked:  "if someone was holding a gun to your head and was about to pull the trigger, and you had a gun in your hand and could pull the trigger first, would you?"  I said "yes."  He then said "then you're not a conscientious objector."   

What does God say about conscience?  I think it's right here: 

"Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
James 4:17

This is why Christians don't (and don't have to) agree on all things.  Even my wife and I have different views on some spiritual things.   

[Dos Equis]

I ask you once again, why do you post here?  You have made your point time and time again.  You have spewed your lies and foolishness, yet you still come back.  I say it is to push the agenda of he who inspires you.  Whatever the case may be, I still have you in my prayers.

I agree.  Deicide why do you post here?  Nearly all of your posts on this board are little more than one-line insults regarding God, Christianity, etc. 

[Government_Controlled]

And prescient and omniscient as he is he knew full well they would 'choose' to sin...logical impossibility and just plain stupid.

Hey, I didn't mean to touch a nerve here. Just because God has these qualities doesn't mean He abuses them. He can ALSO choose to use them when He wishes, right? Still, even if God did use those (qualities) in these cases, it was undoubtedly a solid choice that the demons, satan, Adam and Eve made ,whom were all created perfect.

God did not make them commit the sin regardless if He used His powers to know ahead of time or not. They are still guilty as charged. How can that be logically impossible?






GC/DEA_AGENT

[Government_Controlled]

I just wanted to throw a question out to the believers (this is not for the "Decides" and the like). In these wars that are being fought now on earth, if a christian were to join the military of a nation, how would he/she know that they would not be involved in the killing of one of their brothers?

EX. U.S.A. soldier, Iraq soldier. How would the two know whether the other were christian brothers or not? What about the women, children, citizens who are also of the same belief, how would those soldiers know if they were killing their christian brother or sister in those scenarios?. Just asking?

In my opinion, God would not back a military, which is using His own people to kill his own would he? See what I mean here? Would God actually have His own people killing each other?



CG/DEA_AGENT

[fitt@40]

can a Christian have fundamental disagreement with your point of view and still (from your perspective) be a Christian?

I haven't read your other threads but I'm curious if you came to become a Christian as a way of overcoming/replacing some problem in your life such as alcholism or something else.  Just wondering?

I think there are always going to be some disagreement amongst Christians because of the human factor.  However, all Christians must do the following, without exception:
- Believe that God is who He says He is
- Believe that Jesus is the son of God
- Believe that Jesus died, and rose again for our sins
- Confess by mouth that you are a sinner and accept Jesus as your Saviour
- Know that Christ is the only way to the Father

My  relationship with Jesus is not a result of any personal problems I had to overcome.  In fact, my childhood and teenage years were, from a world's perspective, very good.  I come from a middle-class family, I was a jock (despite being small in stature) in high school, I  was voted most popular male my senior year*, and I enjoyed a similar experience when I went off to college.  Do not misunderstand me, I had my share of ups and downs, but for the most part, I was a happy and well-adjusted kid.  I put an asterisk by most popular because there is a caveat.  I come from a small southern town and we were still practicing a version of Jim Crowism.  I was voted the most popular black male of my senior class.  We had a black and white version of everything. 

Throughout my life I have had religious experiences.  For whatever reasons, there have been things revealed to me.  I know that must sound crazy to a non-believer, but those who know God know what I am talking about.  There was a thread about miracles on this board.  I was tempted to share some of the ones I have seen, but I just do not think this is the place to do that.  I will share the first one I had because it was shortly after that when I began to "know" things.  When I was about seven years old, I had my left leg run over by my father's truck.  My father was backing into the yard, and I was sitting on the little side step of the truck.  He was going very slow.  I fell off the truck.  The thing I remember was being slightly under the truck, but thinking I had enough time to clear the truck.  Some how it seemed as though I started moving in slow motion.  When I knew the truck was going to run over my leg, I just looked away.  The front tire passed over my leg, but t did not break my leg, nor did it even break the skin.  My mother witnessed the whole thing.  In fact, she was screaming for my father to stopped.  I got up and walked away.  My dad knew that he had ran over something, but refused to believe it was my leg.  My mother was screaming and crying, but when I took her hand, she stopped.  For the next few days, she actually seemed a little afraid of me.  At least that is how it seemed to me at the time.  We never really talked about it until the next "event" happened.

The things I began to see shorty after that are almost unbelievable....well maybe unbelievable to most.  I wish that I could tell you that I got right with God after that, or even later as a young teen.  The truth is I have tried running away from God for quite some time.  I know how tempting the pleasures of this world can be.  I have lived the lie of pretending to be a Christian.  I have fooled my people for a number of years (including some ministers) that I was saved.  This is one of the reasons I have extreme patience with people like yourself.  You  do not know Christ; you are a sinner, therefore, you are going to do what sinners do.  I knew Christ, but still sinned.  That made me worse than what you are. 

[fitt@40]

Yes I view killing in self defense and killing in war the same and I don't think either one is a sin.

In my view, if a person who happens to be Christian joins the military, he or she has an obligation to defend the country "in all situations."  You either commit to serve and help support the mission, or don't join. 

Many moons ago when I was joining the military, the recruiter asked me if I was a conscientious objector.  I said "I don't know, what does that mean?"  He then asked:  "if someone was holding a gun to your head and was about to pull the trigger, and you had a gun in your hand and could pull the trigger first, would you?"  I said "yes."  He then said "then you're not a conscientious objector."   

What does God say about conscience?  I think it's right here: 

"Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
James 4:17

This is why Christians don't (and don't have to) agree on all things.  Even my wife and I have different views on some spiritual things.   

As I think more about this, it may be possible that you and I are thinking somewhat the same thing.  A Christian soldier would be obligated to serve, but he or she must remain a Christian first.  For example, a Christian would never be a part of things like the Abu prison scandal, the sexual assaults on fellow soldiers and Iraqi/Afghanistan women, and the intentional killing of noncombatants.  Even with these exceptions, I am still not sure I would say "in all situations."  Think of when Christ is coming back to war against nations.  If America is one of those nations, and I believe she will be, would a Christian soldier still do battle? 

I think your recruiter may have been wrong about conscientious objector.  I was told that it is conscientious is an individual who, on religious, moral or ethical grounds, refuses to participate as a combatant in war.  This is pretty much the standard definition of it, but I got different views (some like what you were told) from different commands.  I never had any intentions of being one, but I was always curious.  As I stated in another thread, I never went to any conflicts or wars during my 20 year career.

You are correct in that James 4:17 is about conscience.  However, this is about knowing that something is a sin and still choosing to do it.  A good example is the unforgivable sin.  Those who commit it unaware are not held accountable.  Those who know it is unforgivable and still commit the sin are damned.

Again, I agree that Christians are not going to agree on everything.  Much of that has to do with understanding and growth in the Lord, the measure of faith we have, and many other human factors.  However, the list that I provided to Strawman can not be waivered.  Do you agree?

[fitt@40]

I just wanted to throw a question out to the believers (this is not for the "Decides" and the like). In these wars that are being fought now on earth, if a christian were to join the military of a nation, how would he/she know that they would not be involved in the killing of one of their brothers?

EX. U.S.A. soldier, Iraq soldier. How would the two know whether the other were christian brothers or not? What about the women, children, citizens who are also of the same belief, how would those soldiers know if they were killing their christian brother or sister in those scenarios?. Just asking?

In my opinion, God would not back a military, which is using His own people to kill his own would he? See what I mean here? Would God actually have His own people killing each other?


CG/DEA_AGENT

Good question.  This is why I think it has to be about why a war is being fought.  Most wars (including many of those for "religious" reasons) are fought because of man's greed.  if we were a Christian nation, we would fight for Christian reasons.  B-Bum has made some very good points about Christians serving in the military.  You make a good point now.  I simply do not have the answers.  I have stated a few times that I never had to go to any of the conflicts or wars during my career.  However, with this current war, I worked with the strategic satellites that provided direct support for the troops on the ground.  That makes me a participant in the war.  As a civilian, I am still working for the military.  Much of what I do support our troops in combat.  This is why I am praying about this issue.  I truly want to know what is right in the eyes of God.

[Straw Man]

fitt - I really appreciate the effort and details.  I have a lot of questions.

let's start here

I don't know what you mean by this statement

I think there are always going to be some disagreement amongst Christians because of the human factor.  However, all Christians must do the following, without exception:

Believe that God is who He says He is

[fitt@40]

fitt - I really appreciate the effort and details.  I have a lot of questions.

let's start here

I don't know what you mean by this statement

For us, it means that we are incapable of understanding Who and What God truly is.  We are to accept Him for what He has told us He is.  He is the creator of all that there is.  He is the beginning and the end (the alpha and the omega).  As humans, this makes no logical sense to us.  When Moses spoke with God, he told Him that the people would ask His Name.  God replied, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14)   


 

[Deicide]

For us, it means that we are incapable of understanding Who and What God truly is.  We are to accept Him for what He has told us He is.  He is the creator of all that there is.  He is the beginning and the end (the alpha and the omega).  As humans, this makes no logical sense to us.  When Moses spoke with God, he told Him that the people would ask His Name.  God replied, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14)   


 

[BayGBM]

How the Faithful Justify Torture
The more you go to church, the more you approve of torture.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2009/05/why_the_faithful_approve_of_torture.html?hpid=talkbox1

[fitt@40]

How the Faithful Justify Torture
The more you go to church, the more you approve of torture.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/susan_brooks_thistlethwaite/2009/05/why_the_faithful_approve_of_torture.html?hpid=talkbox1

If all of the churches in all of the world supported torture, they would not be following God's Will.  Christians are sometimes the biggest problem Christianity has.  There are some Christians out there who only want God's Will to be done. 

[Deicide]

If all of the churches in all of the world supported torture, they would not be following God's Will.  Christians are sometimes the biggest problem Christianity has.  There are some Christians out there who only want God's Will to be done. 

[fitt@40]

You are trying so hard to be disliked.  Sorry, but I have nothing but love for you.  May God Bless you.

[Straw Man]

For us, it means that we are incapable of understanding Who and What God truly is.  We are to accept Him for what He has told us He is.  He is the creator of all that there is.  He is the beginning and the end (the alpha and the omega).  As humans, this makes no logical sense to us.  When Moses spoke with God, he told Him that the people would ask His Name.  God replied, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3:14)   

I can see looking metaphorically at the unknown ground of being as the beginning and end, alpha and omega etc.. just as I can see Buddhist concept of Sunyata of form being emptiness, emptiness being form, etc..

Personally, I can't understand the idea of a god telling us anything.  Do you think that the being that Moses allegedly met was also the "god" that is referred to as the alpha and omega.  Do you think they could be two unrelated things or that the story might be completely altered from what actually happened or even just made up?  (I'm guessing not but I just thought I'd ask).

I'm trying hard to find a way to even understand the first thing on your list of what christians must do mostly because I'll never believe the rest of the list which you've listed:

-Believe that Jesus is the son of God (I think if he existed at all he was just an enlighted being that we've created a myth around as we know humans are prone to do)
- Believe that Jesus died, and rose again for our sins (I believe if he ever actually lived then he most certainly died but nothing more)
- Confess by mouth that you are a sinner and accept Jesus as your Saviour (can't happen for reasons stated above)
- Know that Christ is the only way to the Father (ditto - see above)

from your perspective am I basically screwed and headed for eternity in hell

[fitt@40]

from your perspective am I basically screwed and headed for eternity in hell

According to the Word of God, yes, you are headed to hell.  It is not for me to say who will end up in hell.  I can only tell you what the Word of God says. 

Moses spoke with the God of Abraham; who is Jesus' Father. 

Why do you have so many questions concerning Christianity?  It is obviously a concept that you do not believe.  Just curious.  I do not mind answer your questions (or anyone's) because I do it for the benefit of those who are truly interested. 

[Straw Man]

According to the Word of God, yes, you are headed to hell.  It is not for me to say who will end up in hell.  I can only tell you what the Word of God says. 

Moses spoke with the God of Abraham; who is Jesus' Father. 

Why do you have so many questions concerning Christianity?  It is obviously a concept that you do not believe.  Just curious.  I do not mind answer your questions (or anyone's) because I do it for the benefit of those who are truly interested. 

I don't believe it at all but I'm still interested in what others believe and also how they arrive at their beliefs.

You seem rational and well spoken but the stuff you are saying seems (to me) to be completely crazy. 

We could live next door to each other and essentially share the exact same environment yet you are living in a world that looks nothing like the world I'm living in.

I find that interesting.   

[fitt@40]

I don't believe it at all but I'm still interested in what others believe and also how they arrive at their beliefs.

You seem rational and well spoken but the stuff you are saying seems (to me) to be completely crazy. 

We could live next door to each other and essentially share the exact same environment yet you are living in a world that looks nothing like the world I'm living in.

I find that interesting.   

I like this response...even with you calling my responses crazy. 

My next door neighbors do not believe in God.  We do not "hang out" together, but we are good neighbors to each other.