Author Topic: My thoughts on the CIA memos..  (Read 1623 times)

Busted

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2178
  • PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM MOWER
My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« on: April 21, 2009, 06:21:09 PM »
I just watched Dip Shit Manatee on Fixed Noise...  Dick Cheney and the right wing keeps saying he wants the rest of the memos released showing the torture worked... right?  Heres my problem with it...

TORTURE IS ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why would you admit you committed a crime as the VP of the USA!!!

Selling fucking drugs can make you a lot of money, but its ILLEGAL, so why argue with the judge why you did it cause it made you a lot of money.   You can argue shooting your co worker that gives you shit and makes your job harder will make your work environment easier, but ITS FUCKING ILLEGAL, so WHY TALK ABOUT IT.

Also, after watching a Military interrogator give a interview on TV yesterday saying its widely known that torturing doesnt work and it hasnt for years... and when he actually didnt torture insurgents they were more willing to work with you since they were taught the US tortures...

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7365
  • TND
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 06:36:27 PM »
You posting on this message board is torture to everyone else and should be classified as illegal.

Your brilliant analysis is just further evidence of why close relations shouldn't be allowed to mate.

"If a raccoon eats your garbage, its still garbage, so why should the vice president get away with shoplifting"???-- Another brilliant busted argument

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 07:14:52 PM »
"Busted" would rather glow in the dark or die instead of torture some scumbag. I guess we're lucky that grown-ups protect us instead of douchebag libs.
L

bigdumbbell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17468
  • Bon Voyage !
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 07:21:11 PM »
torture should be legal.

The ChemistV2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2008
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 07:26:26 PM »
"Busted" would rather glow in the dark or die instead of torture some scumbag. I guess we're lucky that grown-ups protect us instead of douchebag libs.
Unfortunately, that's no longer the case. I predict, in less than two years time, because of the weakened policies, we will see another major terrorist attack on US soil and people will be replaying tonight's Cheney interview and saying, "Damn, I never liked that guy but he was totally right."

Busted

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2178
  • PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM MOWER
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 07:32:08 PM »
torture should be legal.

Torture is Illegal... we charged Japanese with war crimes who water boarded Americans in WWII... their punishment? DEATH!! We executed them...  We have entered into treaties vowing to not torture and if so subject to international prosecution of war crimes.

The ChemistV2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2008
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 07:42:52 PM »
Torture is Illegal... we charged Japanese with war crimes who water boarded Americans in WWII... their punishment? DEATH!! We executed them...  We have entered into treaties vowing to not torture and if so subject to international prosecution of war crimes.

Those are Geneva convention rules that pertain to prisoners of war that fighting for their specific country. The Islamic fanatic terrorists are not soldiers of a specific country we are at war with. They are classified as "Enemies of humanity". Geneva convention laws do not pertain to them.

bigdumbbell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17468
  • Bon Voyage !
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 07:58:16 PM »
Torture is Illegal... we charged Japanese with war crimes who water boarded Americans in WWII... their punishment? DEATH!! We executed them...  We have entered into treaties vowing to not torture and if so subject to international prosecution of war crimes.

 

torture should be legal especially techniques like gluing an ass shut so the person dies of diarrhea poisoning or hanging folks by their fingers.  i particularly like the one where a pit is dug. the person stands in the pit and it's filled again with dirt all the way to the head so just the head is showing and then everyone gets to throw rocks at the head until the person is dead

Busted

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2178
  • PROUD MEMBER OF TEAM MOWER
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 08:09:00 PM »
Those are Geneva convention rules that pertain to prisoners of war that fighting for their specific country. The Islamic fanatic terrorists are not soldiers of a specific country we are at war with. They are classified as "Enemies of humanity". Geneva convention laws do not pertain to them.

Ahhh what the hell do you think they are? We declared WAR against Afghanistan and Iraq, people we DETAIN are PRISONERS OF WAR.. And yes Geneva convention laws do apply... Why do you think McCain kept hammering Bush over it.. We cant torture ANYONE..

Americans were water boarded in WWII by the Japs... Those Japs were charged with WAR CRIMES and were sent to DEATH, and were EXECUTED by our Government.  But its ok for Bush and Cheney to lie to the American public and order torture?

Do you not read history?

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 04:34:00 PM »
Yeah...HISTORY..its the 21st Century and some nutbag with a dirty bomb or poison can shut down half our country..not to mentiona nuke. U really better get over this law/legal bullshit.
L

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 04:41:26 PM »
At the Central Intelligence Agency, it's known as "slow rolling." That's what agency officers sometimes do on politically sensitive assignments. They go through the motions; they pass cables back and forth; they take other jobs out of the danger zone; they cover their backsides.

This Story
Slow Roll Time At Langley
The CIA's Questioning Worked
Crimes That Deserve Punishment
Sad to say, it's slow roll time at Langley after the release of interrogation memos that, in the words of one veteran officer, "hit the agency like a car bomb in the driveway." President Obama promised CIA officers that they won't be prosecuted for carrying out lawful orders, but the people on the firing line don't believe him. They think the memos have opened a new season of investigation and retribution.

The lesson for younger officers is obvious: Keep your head down. Duck the assignments that carry political risk. Stay away from a counterterrorism program that has become a career hazard.

Obama tried personally to reassure the CIA workforce during a visit to Langley on Monday. He said all the right things about the agency's clandestine role. But it had the look of a campaign event, with employees hooting and hollering and the president reading from his teleprompter with a backdrop of stars that commemorate the CIA's fallen warriors. By yesterday, Obama was deferring to the attorney general whether to prosecute "those who formulated those legal decisions," whatever that means.


Obama seems to think he can have it both ways -- authorizing an unprecedented disclosure of CIA operational methods and at the same time galvanizing a clandestine service whose best days, he told them Monday, are "yet to come." Life doesn't work that way -- even for charismatic politicians. Disclosure of the torture memos may have been necessary, as part of an overdue campaign to change America's image in the world. But nobody should pretend that the disclosures weren't costly to CIA morale and effectiveness.

Put yourself in the shoes of the people who were asked to interrogate al-Qaeda prisoners in 2002. One former officer told me he declined the job, not because he thought the program was wrong but because he knew it would blow up. "We all knew the political wind would change eventually," he recalled. Other officers who didn't make that cynical but correct calculation are now "broken and bewildered," says the former operative.

For a taste of what's ahead, recall the chilling effects of past CIA scandals. In 1995, then-Director John Deutch ordered a "scrub" of the agency's assets after revelations of past links to Guatemalan death squads. Officers were told they shouldn't jettison sources who had provided truly valuable intelligence. But the practical message, recalls one former division chief, was: "Don't deal with assets who could pose political risks." A similar signal is being sent now, he warns.

One veteran counterterrorism operative says that agents in the field are already being more careful about using the legal findings that authorize covert action. An example is the so-called "risk of capture" interview that takes place in the first hour after a terrorism suspect is grabbed. This used to be the key window of opportunity, in which the subject was questioned aggressively and his cellphone contacts and "pocket litter" were exploited quickly.

Now, field officers are more careful. They want guidance from headquarters. They need legal advice. I'm told that in the case of an al-Qaeda suspect seized in Iraq several weeks ago, the CIA didn't even try to interrogate him. The agency handed him over to the U.S. military.

Agency officials also worry about the effect on foreign intelligence services that share secrets with the United States in a process politely known as "liaison." A former official who remains in close touch with key Arab allies such as Egypt and Jordan warns: "There is a growing concern that the risk is too high to do the things with America they've done in the past."

If Obama means what he says about protecting the CIA workforce and its operational edge, he must give up the idea that he can please everyone on this issue. He should recommend limits on any congressional inquiry and resist demands for a special prosecutor. Instead, he should push the White House's preferred alternative -- a commission that can review secret evidence behind closed doors, then report to the nation.

America will be better off, in the long run, for Obama's decision to expose the past practice of torture and ban its future use. But meanwhile, the country is fighting a war, and it needs to take care that the sunlight of exposure doesn't blind its shadow warriors.

L

Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 05:34:49 PM »
Hey Busted, should we take drown proofing out of BUD/S?  Let the instructors at Coronado know what you think.

I guarantee that one interrogator's opinion does not mean that torture never worked.  It must be quite a drop from Cloud 9 to reality where life is dirty and not everyone is doing well.  Countries that have used torture have likely extracted good information.  The CIA are pussycats compared to Mossaud.
Squishy face retard

Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4297
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 05:35:29 PM »
Torture is not illegal when we do it (we call it "harsh interrogation techniques").

Much in the same way genocide wasn't so in Nazi Germany.

Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 05:39:34 PM »
Torture is not illegal when we do it (we call it "harsh interrogation techniques").

Much in the same way genocide wasn't so in Nazi Germany.
So you're telling me that if 9/11 or the Cole bombing could have been prevented using waterboarding you would be against it?
Squishy face retard

Slapper

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4297
  • Vincit qui se vincit
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 06:00:29 PM »
So you're telling me that if 9/11 or the Cole bombing could have been prevented using waterboarding you would be against it?

Yes I am saying that precisely. Torture is wrong here and in Australia, now or 30 years ago.

Competent and legal intelligence gathering did the job before 9/11 but the Texan asshole decided not to act on the "Osama Bin Laden is standing right behind you with a knife" memos.


Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 06:10:06 PM »
Yes I am saying that precisely. Torture is wrong here and in Australia, now or 30 years ago.

Competent and legal intelligence gathering did the job before 9/11 but the Texan asshole decided not to act on the "Osama Bin Laden is standing right behind you with a knife" memos.


Before 9/11...so like when we got attacked in Yemen?  Hmmm...the lax approach to intelligence has proven to be a mistake.  Sleep safe at night knowing that information was and likely is still extracted by harsh means, when necessary, and it keeps you safe.
Squishy face retard

stormshadow

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Getbig!
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 06:17:38 PM »
Torture is Illegal... we charged Japanese with war crimes who water boarded Americans in WWII... their punishment? DEATH!! We executed them...  We have entered into treaties vowing to not torture and if so subject to international prosecution of war crimes.


Treating POW's well and having a reputation for NOT torturing them leads to the enemy being much more likely to surrender rather than fight to the death.

If I'm a US solider in Iraq fighting for Oil, I'm going to fight to the death vs if I knew I would be treating fairly and returned, I would say fuck it and surrender.

stormshadow

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Getbig!
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 06:19:20 PM »
So you're telling me that if 9/11 or the Cole bombing could have been prevented using waterboarding you would be against it?

If raping and killing your mother would have prevented 911 would you still be against it?

Lame attempt to dismiss the principle of morality and not torturing another human being.

Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 07:24:36 PM »
If raping and killing your mother would have prevented 911 would you still be against it?

Lame attempt to dismiss the principle of morality and not torturing another human being.
Morality goes out the window with terrorists, at least for me.  A person that sends retarded women, wired with explosives, into a crowd and blows her ass up.  These animals slaughter innocent people for what??  Dunking them in water for 20-40 seconds to extract information is nothing.  If you think that is torture then don't sign up for BUD/S or PJ selection any time soon.  If you think sleep deprivation in a controlled environment is cruel then PLEASE don't sign up for SFAS.  If you want to be a pilot, please don't go to SERE. 

Raping and killing my mother wouldn't have extracted any information, dunking some douchebag has.  Get over it. 
Squishy face retard

The ChemistV2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2008
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 07:26:51 PM »
If raping and killing your mother would have prevented 911 would you still be against it?

Lame attempt to dismiss the principle of morality and not torturing another human being.
I would agree with you if the torture we're talking about was really horrific...like gouging out an eyeball, pouring acid on their genitals, putting their head in a steel vice, a blowtorch to their bare flesh..but pouring some water over them and scaring the shit out of them to prevent another 9/11? I have no problem with that.

24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 07:56:01 PM »
Treating POW's well and having a reputation for NOT torturing them leads to the enemy being much more likely to surrender rather than fight to the death.

If I'm a US solider in Iraq fighting for Oil, I'm going to fight to the death vs if I knew I would be treating fairly and returned, I would say fuck it and surrender.

There were a lot of Germans who simply surrendered when they knew they were coming up against Canadians.
w

Cap

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= CSP111
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 08:39:03 PM »
Treating POW's well and having a reputation for NOT torturing them leads to the enemy being much more likely to surrender rather than fight to the death.

If I'm a US solider in Iraq fighting for Oil, I'm going to fight to the death vs if I knew I would be treating fairly and returned, I would say fuck it and surrender.
Fuck that.  I'd rather go down in a hail of gun fire than surrender to the Muj.
Squishy face retard

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 09:11:26 PM »
Treating POW's well and having a reputation for NOT torturing them leads to the enemy being much more likely to surrender rather than fight to the death.

If I'm a US solider in Iraq fighting for Oil, I'm going to fight to the death vs if I knew I would be treating fairly and returned, I would say fuck it and surrender.

As a soldier returning to sunny Iraq and all that oil, in November...I can safely say that surrendering to nutbag jihadists will get u on Utube in an orange jumpsuit and a machete. They torture prisoners, they behead em...they don't let em go...u don't end up building the Kwai river bridge or in a Luftstalag. I'd rather eat my 9mm.
L

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7365
  • TND
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 09:14:07 PM »
 ::)

Outside of some unfathomable and moronic comparisons posted in this thread, I am at a loss trying to argue the correct point of view on this issue anymore. Asking if we agreed that stopping 911 was worth it to torture one of our mothers may be the dumbest thing I have ever read anywhere. Is my mother an Islamic terrorist with knowledge of imminent terrorist attacks that are going to kill innocent Americans? Is my mother part of a clandstine terrorist organization? If she was then yeah, I would torture her- to save innocent peoples lives. The point is that nobodies mother ( I hope ) falls into either of those catagories. As I've said before, why not ask if waterboarding some puppys or toddlers would be worth it. These stupid fucking examples are hysterical, if only they werent so pathetic. Your pompus sense of moral superiority makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.


I just hope you or someone you care about is blown to kingdom come. While their guts are being shovled into a plastic bag with a rake, someone should really ask themselves if waterboarding a terrorist was worth saving your ass backward life- or someone close to you. I mean, its not exactly like waterboarding your mother, but hey--- terrorist psychos who want to kill everyone are entitled to the same constitutional rights as you and me! Maybe they'll send flowers to your funeral!

And for Jag especially, and all the other head up your own asshole brain dead surrender monkeys, pick up a book and read about middle eastern history and terrorism. Please find a single example of when playing nice with these animals has ever prompted them to act more humane toward fellow muslims, let alone the rest of the civilized world. They take kindness for weakness. It is a fact. Until you wise up and come to terms with reality, educating you on the truth is like nailing jello to a wall. Wake the fuck up.


24KT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 24455
  • Gold Savings Account Rep +1 (310) 409-2244
Re: My thoughts on the CIA memos..
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 09:14:58 PM »
As a soldier returning to sunny Iraq and all that oil, in November...I can safely say that surrendering to nutbag jihadists will get u on Utube in an orange jumpsuit and a machete. They torture prisoners, they behead em...they don't let em go...u don't end up building the Kwai river bridge or in a Luftstalag. I'd rather eat my 9mm.

Like the American contractor whose dead, lifeless, bloodless body was beheaded inside Abu Graib, by english speakers?
w