Why do all the Pros have huge mid sections?

[io856]

It hasn't been proven that pro bodybuilders carry a lot of visceral fat at contest time. That's your theory.

And you're wrong about GH increasing visceral fat in HIV+ people. It does the opposite.

You're also wrong about the peptides being the sole culprit (whatever the mechanism). I'm personally positive that steroids alone can cause the belly to protrude more and there are many juicers who would agree. I'm not sure as to the mechanism but I've seen it and experienced it.

I'm not convinced bodybuilders carry a lot of visceral fat at contest time. It's possible but I tend to doubt it.

What would we do without this man!

[New Hank Wood]

Again f@cktards, the jury is out on whether or not gh and insulin are the culprits for the huge pregnant bellies we see today.

And yes, these same f@cktards just love to jump on google on quote irrelevant and unproven bullsh#t relating to the supposed dangers of gh and insulin.

Understand this you stupid and ignorant retards; when you abuse 'any' substance, be it food, water or drugs, the stomach as well as the rest of the body will show signs of protrusion!

End of f@cking story....Now go back to google you deadsh@ts and find some relevance to your unproven theories relating to these unplanned pregnancies!

[io856]

I think Hank Wood is onto something here... people just love to point the finger at gh and slin

Dorian said in a recent interview that he also believes it could also relate to abuse of oral steroids too etc etc its all about abuse here

[Van_Bilderass]

It hasn't been proven that pro bodybuilders carry a lot of visceral fat at contest time. That's your theory.

And you're wrong about GH increasing visceral fat in HIV+ people. It does the opposite. Do a google search for "HIV visceral fat growth hormone". I'm not sure if you mean 'insensitivity' when you say 'sensitivity', I suspect you switched the terms?

You're also wrong about the peptides being the sole culprit (whatever the mechanism). I'm personally positive that steroids alone can cause the belly to protrude more and there are many juicers who would agree. I'm not sure as to the mechanism but I've seen it and experienced it.

I'm not convinced bodybuilders carry a lot of visceral fat at contest time. It's possible but I tend to doubt it.

Here's an example after a quick google

J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2002 Aug 1;30(4):379-91.Click here to read Links
    Effect of recombinant human growth hormone in the treatment of visceral fat accumulation in HIV infection.
    Engelson ES, Glesby MJ, Mendez D, Albu JB, Wang J, Heymsfield SB, Kotler DP.

    Gastrointestinal Division, Obesity Research Center, New York 10025, USA. eengelson@slrhx.org

    HIV-associated lipodystrophy often includes excess accumulation of visceral fat. Recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) is a potential treatment for the excess visceral fat. Prospective, open-label trials of 24 weeks of rhGH 6 mg/d and 24 weeks of 4 mg every other day were conducted with an intervening washout period of 12 weeks. Thirty HIV-positive participants (26 men and 4 women) with visceral adiposity were enrolled. The main outcome measure was change in visceral adipose tissue (VAT) on whole-body magnetic resonance imaging scan. Changes in whole-body subcutaneous adipose tissue and skeletal muscle, glucose metabolism, serum lipids, and quality of life were also assessed. Despite stable body weight, VAT decreased in evaluable subjects an average of 42% with rhGH 6 mg/d (n = 24; p <.001) and 15% with 4 mg every other day (n = 10; p <.01) after 12 weeks, with trends toward further decreases after an additional 12 weeks at each dose. Subcutaneous adipose tissue also decreased, but proportionately less and not significantly on the lower dose. Skeletal muscle increased. Body composition rebounded to or near baseline after the washout period. Effects on lipids were inconsistent. Total cholesterol levels fell on the higher dose only, whereas high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels increased on the lower dose only, and there was no effect on triglyceride levels. Joint pain was the most common adverse event, and was reflected in subjective quality of life measurements as an increase in bodily pain. Insulin sensitivity fell, and 4 participants developed diabetes. Other adverse events included cancer of unknown relationship to treatment in 3 participants. Levels of distress decreased after 24 weeks on the higher dose. In conclusion, rhGH effectively reduces the excess visceral adipose tissue often associated with HIV fat redistribution/lipodystrophy. However, frequent adverse effects warrant controlled studies and careful patient monitoring, especially regarding glucose tolerance.

Visceral fat decreased despite reductions in insulin sensitivity. GH usually causes an increase in insulin levels due to the insulin resistance. So you have guys with higher insulin levels, poorer sensitivity, yet visceral fat decreased.

So can we say for a fact that the pros are holding large amounts of VAT when they are severely dieted down?

[New Hank Wood]

These 'google experts' love to jump on the gh and slin bandwagon...They don't have a clue!

Yes indeed, the '90's ushered in the pregnant belly look.  This look came at a time when the Pro's began abusing just about every chemical under the sun!  They began cycling year in and year out, never taking a break!

The greater the drug abuser the greater the belly.

Stop blaming gh for all the woes of this sport.  Open your closed little minds you retarded little deadsh@ts.

Take away the overt abuse of 'all' these substances and watch the bellies deflate!

[timfogarty]

And you're wrong about GH increasing visceral fat in HIV+ people. It does the opposite. Do a google search for "HIV visceral fat growth hormone". I'm not sure if you mean 'insensitivity' when you say 'sensitivity', I suspect you switched the terms?

Sure it's anecdotal, but many years ago people on HAART were having lots of problem with the protruding stomachs.   MRIs and ultrasound shows they had significant increases in visceral fat.    GH was being prescribed because it was covered by ADAP and anabolic steroids weren't.   Now days very few people are being given GH, AS is the drug of choice to counter wasting.   And the protruding stomachs are much rarer.

I'm personally positive that steroids alone can cause the belly to protrude more and there are many juicers who would agree.

then why don't you see it in the vintage mags?   they were certainly using massive amounts of AS in the 1970s and 80s.   Narrow waists were the norm in all top amateur and pro bodybuilders until the mid 1990s.

[New Hank Wood]

FFS, these people who spend their time on Google trying to rationalise the abortion that is gh and insulin.

You f@cktards just don't get it!

Once again, you abuse anything, that is water, steroids, food etc you will get bloating.  Reduce these substances and the guts will disappear.

STOP trying to blame gh for the pregnant bellies! 

BLAME the overcompensating drug addicts who are abusing everything uder the sun!

[dogbowl]

better forearms than Kamali

[New Hank Wood]

I always remember that cocky drug abusing murderer Titus saying that the pregnant-bellies were a result of over eating!  Yes, 'overeating' you F@cktards!

Titus went on to say that when he stopped with over consumption of food his huge belly went back to normal!

So there you have it retards. 

Now it is time for you pieces of shit to jump back on Google and find some more unsubstanciated evidence on the detrimental effects of gh an slin!

[benchthis]

visceral fat is different than subcutaneous fat

you can get rid of all the fat between the skin and the muscles, but still have lots of fat between your internal organs.

the omentum is a membrane that surrounds the stomach and other organs.  (its the fat netting that they use on cooking shows to wrap very lean pieces of meat.)  the omentum is also where all the fat is stored when you have a beer belly.

its also very very dangerous to your health

[Awesomo]

If pros go off the drugs can they lose the gut and start to look good again?

[drkaje]

If pros go off the drugs can they lose the gut and start to look good again?

Depends on how much visceral fat they lose but GH also causes smooth muscle to grow so it's hard to tell.

Those guts are from GH and Insulin. Anyone who says different is misinformed or doesn't understand physiology and nutrition.

[Van_Bilderass]

Depends on how much visceral fat they lose but GH also causes smooth muscle to grow so it's hard to tell.

Those guts are from GH and Insulin. Anyone who says different is misinformed or doesn't understand physiology and nutrition.

So you know for a fact that the pros are holding a lot of VAT at contest time?

I'm not saying those drugs don't cause distension, just questioning the mechanism.

To my knowledge bodybuilders haven't had body scans to determine the mechanism. These threads wouldn't be coming up every few days if the answer was self evident if you only know a little physiology.

[drkaje]

So you know for a fact that the pros are holding a lot of VAT at contest time?

I'm not saying those drugs don't cause distension, just questioning the mechanism.

To my knowledge bodybuilders haven't had body scans to determine the mechanism. These threads wouldn't be coming up every few days if the answer was self evident if you only know a little physiology.

These threads keep coming up because people don't like the answer. 

Not talking opinion here, simply what the drugs do. The growth isn't limited to 'work-out' muscles. Even if it were, GI muscles are almost always moving. GH also causes growth in small bones. Comparing them to regular fatasses doesn't make sense because type II diabetics have decreased insulin sensitivity. There are 4 or 5 glucose receptors in humans, why wouldn't there be more than one for insulin?

Large amounts of food obviously cause the GI tract to work harder but you don't see huge guts in naturals.

[Van_Bilderass]

These threads keep coming up because people don't like the answer. 

Not talking opinion here, simply what the drugs do. The growth isn't limited to 'work-out' muscles. Even if it were, GI muscles are almost always moving. GH also causes growth in small bones. Comparing them to regular fatasses doesn't make sense because type II diabetics have decreased insulin sensitivity. There are 4 or 5 glucose receptors in humans, why wouldn't there be more than one for insulin?

Large amounts of food obviously cause the GI tract to work harder but you don't see huge guts in naturals.

Growth in small bones? I'm not sure what you're talking about here and how it relates to this topic. Same with the 4 or 5 glucose receptors thing.

Regarding the growth of intestines etc it hasn't been quantified - if it occurs and to what degree. If you look at the HIV hGH studies they posed the possibility of organ growth accounting for some of the lbm gain. But it hasn't been looked at more closely to my knowledge. I think most of the lbm gain in those studies is simply water retention. How much the organs grow is unknown. Disgusted believes in the VAT theory and doesn't believe the organs grow since it would cause the belly to look unsymmetrical in his opinion.

Regarding VAT, hGH seems to cause reduction of it despite causing insulin resistance and consequent hyperinsulinemia. timfogarty says the guts came down in HIV patients when they dropped the growth so in those cases the distention must logically be due to something other than VAT.

And yes, I think bodybuilders on lots of growth are often severely insulin resistant, to the point of type II diabetes. Why do you think many of them say they must use extra insulin when on lots of GH (due to elevated BG)?

[The_Punisher]

there is no scientific evidence to support your claim.

1) when a top level amateur or pro bodybuilder steps on stage, he's be dieting for weeks and dehydrating himself for days.  yet he still has the protruding stomach

2) amateur and pro bodybuilders were abusing food, water, and steroids all throughout the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, but the protruding stomach didn't show up until the mid 1990s, then suddenly every top bodybuilder had it.   that correlates well with the introduction of insulin to gh.

your argument seems to make sense

[drkaje]

Growth in small bones? I'm not sure what you're talking about here and how it relates to this topic. Same with the 4 or 5 glucose receptors thing.

Regarding the growth of intestines etc it hasn't been quantified - if it occurs and to what degree. If you look at the HIV hGH studies they posed the possibility of organ growth accounting for some of the lbm gain. But it hasn't been looked at more closely to my knowledge. I think most of the lbm gain in those studies is simply water retention. How much the organs grow is unknown. Disgusted believes in the VAT theory and doesn't believe the organs grow since it would cause the belly to look unsymmetrical in his opinion.

Regarding VAT, hGH seems to cause reduction of it despite causing insulin resistance and consequent hyperinsulinemia. timfogarty says the guts came down in HIV patients when they dropped the growth so in those cases the distention must logically be due to something other than VAT.

And yes, I think bodybuilders on lots of growth are often severely insulin resistant, to the point of type II diabetes. Why do you think many of them say they must use extra insulin when on lots of GH (due to elevated BG)?

I think a part of the problem is language. People want to believe the guts are a side.

Add up what both drugs do, especially in the liver, and you'll see why the guts happen.

Try looking at it another way.... Pros don't get points marked off for the big bellies. That one simple fact means the bellies can't be modified by diet, fluid restriction, exercise or diuretics.

Big guts are just a part of using those drugs. What's the big deal?

[Van_Bilderass]

I think a part of the problem is language. People want to believe the guts are a side.

I must have a language problem since I don't get what you're trying to say... 

Add up what both drugs do, especially in the liver, and you'll see why the guts happen.

I gotta ask what you mean here exactly? What happens in the liver and how does this cause gut growth?

[drkaje]

I must have a language problem since I don't get what you're trying to say... 


I gotta ask what you mean here exactly? What happens in the liver and how does this cause gut growth?

The liver is one of GH's main targets and that's where IGF is produced. Side-Effects of Insulin-like Growth Factor include swelling of internal organs and organomegaly.

Whatever the reason is doesn't matter because people are still going to use. I just don't get why people find the answer so annoying. No one complains about other supplements causing acne, limp dick and other issues.

[The Wizard of Truth]

Deca=impotance for some

[timfogarty]

Whatever the reason is doesn't matter because people are still going to use. I just don't get why people find the answer so annoying. No one complains about other supplements causing acne, limp dick and other issues.

'people' aren't finding the answer so annoying.   gimmicks argue just to argue.  gimmick supports support just to argue.

[New Hank Wood]

Yes, Getbiggers are sick and tired of these so-called experts making wild ascertions about gh and slin.

Yes, these same experts who have no scientific background and just use google to try an establish and argument!

Again to all you f@cktards; the pregnant bellies are a result of the 'over consumption' of all substances.  There is no proof that gh and slin alone is responsible!

[timfogarty]

Yes, these same experts who have no scientific background and just use google to try an establish and argument!

I have a Masters of Science  in geophysics.  Worked ten years at JPL NASA, working on two space shuttle missions and one deep space mission.  Am listed as co-author on a couple of papers in peer reviewed journals.  Oh and I was married to an M.D. for the four years of his residency, helped him study for his psych boards.  (then he dumped me)

[G o a t b o y]

Oh and I was married to an M.D. for the four years of his residency, helped him study for his psych boards.  (then he dumped me)

Really?  When did California allow gay marriage?

[drkaje]

Yes, Getbiggers are sick and tired of these so-called experts making wild ascertions about gh and slin.

Yes, these same experts who have no scientific background and just use google to try an establish and argument!

Again to all you f@cktards; the pregnant bellies are a result of the 'over consumption' of all substances.  There is no proof that gh and slin alone is responsible!

I've taught an anatomy and physiology course.

A basic understanding of how GH, IGF and Insulin's mechanisms of action are all you need. There's no scientific benefit to studying off-label abuse of that combination and it would also be harming humans.