Who had the best draft? The G-Men of course.

[Dos Equis]

youre kidding right? He's the most over hyped fucker in 5 years.

He comes from an EXTREMELY pass heavy offense....matched up with that WEAK big12 conference defenses. He barely was forced to play in press coverage AT ALL. Trust me...they let him roam free. Not t mention he's 6'1'' barely and runs a 4.6...al davis is goffing at you. I can go on and on

the 9'rs bit the bullet drafting a slot reciver at # 10

I disagree.  Have you watched him play?  I've watched him several times and his numbers are no fluke.  Terrific hands.  Great route running.  Great feet.  Excellent football speed.  I could care less about his 40 time.  Forty times don't mean squat, particularly when a player has produced like Crabtree. 

Barely 6'1?  Like that's a problem?  How tall was Jerry Rice?  How tall is Steve Smith?   

If you want to talk about a mistake, it's Heyward-Bey.  He has Troy Williamson written all over him.  Both ran blazing combine 40s.  Neither produced on the field.  I'll take a player like Boldin who ran a 4.6, but can play, over a guy like Williamson who ran about a sub 4.3, but can't play.   

Crabtree is a great football player.  Very happy the Niners drafted him. 

[2ND COMING]

I disagree.  Have you watched him play?  I've watched him several times and his numbers are no fluke.  Terrific hands.  Great route running.  Great feet.  Excellent football speed.  I could care less about his 40 time.  Forty times don't mean squat, particularly when a player has produced like Crabtree. 

Barely 6'1?  Like that's a problem?  How tall was Jerry Rice?  How tall is Steve Smith?   

If you want to talk about a mistake, it's Heyward-Bey.  He has Troy Williamson written all over him.  Both ran blazing combine 40s.  Neither produced on the field.  I'll take a player like Boldin who ran a 4.6, but can play, over a guy like Williamson who ran about a sub 4.3, but can't play.   

Crabtree is a great football player.  Very happy the Niners drafted him. 

did you not read what i said? texas tech system is spread offense oriented meaning HEAVY PASS. Of course he will have inflated stats, match that with little to no bump coverage and soft zone d from big 12 defenses, gave him whatever he wanted.

When you speak of his production, its all VOID. He is a SYSTEM GUY.

how tall was rice? about 6'3. Steve smith? 5'9'' but runs a 4.3 and is put together like a brick shit house.

Can we see some highlights that dont include that miracle catch against texas and that td against a soft kansas state zone defense in the red zone.wait. There are no highlights. There is nothing that warrants taking him at number 10. Heyward-bay ran a 4.3 flat.He had 3 solid seasons in a pro style offesne, not some pass heavy spread offense in a WEAK defenive conference ala big12.

[Dos Equis]

did you not read what i said? texas tech system is spread offense oriented meaning HEAVY PASS. Of course he will have inflated stats, match that with little to no bump coverage and soft zone d from big 12 defenses, gave him whatever he wanted.

When you speak of his production, its all VOID. He is a SYSTEM GUY.

how tall was rice? about 6'3. Steve smith? 5'9'' but runs a 4.3 and is put together like a brick shit house.

Can we see some highlights that dont include that miracle catch against texas and that td against a soft kansas state zone defense in the red zone.wait. There are no highlights. There is nothing that warrants taking him at number 10. Heyward-bay ran a 4.3 flat.He had 3 solid seasons in a pro style offesne, not some pass heavy spread offense in a WEAK defenive conference ala big12.

Yes I read what you said.  I disagree with you.  He isn't just a product of a "system."  I doubt you've actually watched him play.  I don't care what kind of system you play in.  You don't catch the ball any differently in a "spread" offense than an option offense.  Obviously, the opportunities to catch the ball are greater in a spread offense, but a great WR is great regardless of the "system."  That "system" argument is pretty shallow.

Jerry Rice was 6'2", about an inch taller than Crabtree.  Steve Smith built like a brick house?  lol . . . He's 5'9" 185 pounds.  lol . . . 

Heyward-Bey "had 3 solid seasons"?  Dude . . . .  Here are his stats:

2006:  45 for 694, 5 TDs
2007:  51 for 786, 3 TDs
2008:  42 for 609, 5 TDs

http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=169167

That's terrible, particularly for a guy who runs a 4.3.  If a guy truly has great football speed, he'll produce much better than Heyward-Bey. 

Crabtree played in a weak conference and Heyward-Bey didn't?  Uh . . . no.     

[Earl1972]

my steelers filled a lot of needs on paper, hopefully these guys are capable of playing

i'm sure the 1st round pick evander 'ziggy' hood will be a stud, haven't missed on a 1st round guy since troy edwards in 99

E

[CalvinH]

Team like the Steelers,Pats and lately the G-men don't make "sexy" picks because they are drafting at the bottom.

[body88]

Team like the Steelers,Pats and lately the G-men don't make "sexy" picks because they are drafting at the bottom.

Thats true, but the teams you just mentioned are most likley to take lb's, dt's, de's and ot's even if they do pick high.  The pats traded back from the number 7 pick (SF's pick) to 10 and they took Mayo. 

[CalvinH]

Thats true, but the teams you just mentioned are most likley to take lb's, dt's, de's and ot's even if they do pick high.  The pats traded back from the number 7 pick (SF's pick) to 10 and they took Mayo. 

Old school George Young.you wanna build a team that wins,start on the lines.

[Option D]

Team like the Steelers,Pats and lately the G-men don't make "sexy" picks because they are drafting at the bottom.

you=absolutley right

[2ND COMING]

Yes I read what you said.  I disagree with you.  He isn't just a product of a "system."  I doubt you've actually watched him play.  I don't care what kind of system you play in.  You don't catch the ball any differently in a "spread" offense than an option offense.  Obviously, the opportunities to catch the ball are greater in a spread offense, but a great WR is great regardless of the "system."  That "system" argument is pretty shallow.

Jerry Rice was 6'2", about an inch taller than Crabtree.  Steve Smith built like a brick house?  lol . . . He's 5'9" 185 pounds.  lol . . . 

Heyward-Bey "had 3 solid seasons"?  Dude . . . .  Here are his stats:

2006:  45 for 694, 5 TDs
2007:  51 for 786, 3 TDs
2008:  42 for 609, 5 TDs

http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=169167

That's terrible, particularly for a guy who runs a 4.3.  If a guy truly has great football speed, he'll produce much better than Heyward-Bey. 

Crabtree played in a weak conference and Heyward-Bey didn't?  Uh . . . no.     

yes. bb. Big 12 defenses vs. acc defenses. Look up the statistics. Big 12 defenses are WEAK. I'm gonna end this filla buster right now. theres no point in debating logic with a casual college football fan. Heywar bey played in a pro style offense. When a team passes 60 times a game....ala texas tech, chances are you might have a better statistical year rather than playing in a pro style offense. Do you know what pro style offense consists of? run first, play action, hb screens, full house toss etc. Not lining up with 5 wr sets every down.

[body88]

yes. bb. Big 12 defenses vs. acc defenses. Look up the statistics. Big 12 defenses are WEAK. I'm gonna end this filla buster right now. theres no point in debating logic with a casual college football fan. Heywar bey played in a pro style offense. When a team passes 60 times a game....ala texas tech, chances are you might have a better statistical year rather than playing in a pro style offense. Do you know what pro style offense consists of? run first, play action, hb screens, full house toss etc. Not lining up with 5 wr sets every down.

Things are changing. Pats have been using the spread for years.  Lots of empty back fields and pass first downs used as a running game.  They switch it up and hammer you with the run at times, but other times they throw.  Crabtree would be sick in the pats O.

You're seeing more and more "spread" style O's in the pros.

[Option D]

yes. bb. Big 12 defenses vs. acc defenses. Look up the statistics. Big 12 defenses are WEAK. I'm gonna end this filla buster right now. theres no point in debating logic with a casual college football fan. Heywar bey played in a pro style offense. When a team passes 60 times a game....ala texas tech, chances are you might have a better statistical year rather than playing in a pro style offense. Do you know what pro style offense consists of? run first, play action, hb screens, full house toss etc. Not lining up with 5 wr sets every down.

Got a point there...But i think all in all, Crabtree is a better WR...But i see the point. Would be interesting to see what Crabtree would have done in MD..He seems to have better ball skills when the ball is in the air. Runs better routes, and better RAC than BEY. IMO Bey will be the 2nd comming of James Jett

[2ND COMING]

but but but the niners...with their new coach singletary will be featuring a RUN first offense.

hes implementing a very pro style offense.

body..you know how weak those big 12 defenses were...and you know how much tt passed every game...at least 50+ times a game.

of course crabtree will have better stats then bay who plays in a very pro style type of scheme.

many good wr's in the nfl dont grab 5td' per year and they play 17 games. not 12.

BB thinks crabby is the second coming of jesus because of his production. OFCOURSE he put up numbers. so did grahm and he wasnt drafted. Same thing with colt brenan...a system guy.

[Option D]

Things are changing. Pats have been using the spread for years.  Lots of empty back fields and pass first downs used as a running game.  They switch it up and hammer you with the run at times, but other times they throw.  Crabtree would be sick in the pats O.

You're seeing more and more "spread" style O's in the pros.

But not like College. Simply because this. Let the pats try and run that spread style against the NY giants or Carolina panthers. The pass rush gets there too fast to run those empty sets. Oh yeah PAts tried that in the superbowl and Brady (who gained all the respect in world for his superbowl preformance...yeah i said it...) was on his wallet the whole game.

Sidebar...Brady= has biggest nuts in the world (no homo) he stood in there and got hit time after time. A real football player sees that as greatness

[Option D]

but but but the niners...with their new coach singletary will be featuring a RUN first offense.

hes implementing a very pro style offense.

body..you know how weak those big 12 defenses were...and you know how much tt passed every game...at least 50+ times a game.

of course crabtree will have better stats then bay who plays in a very pro style type of scheme.

many good wr's in the nfl dont grab 5td' per year and they play 17 games. not 12.

BB thinks crabby is the second coming of jesus because of his production. OFCOURSE he put up numbers. so did grahm and he wasnt drafted. Same thing with colt brenan...a system guy.

Chang and Gram and Sonny (remember him from TT) yeah those are system guys...but I think Colt is the real deal...he makes awesome throws in the redskins boring ass 2wr offense...i think he is better than Campbell right now

[2ND COMING]

youre crazy if you think hes better than campbell...#17 is SOLID. He just needs a better line.

and im not  arguing that crabby is a better wr. BB is the one who mentioned bay.

im just saying that there is nothing that constitutes taking crabby at #10.

[Option D]

youre crazy if you think hes better than campbell...#17 is SOLID. He just needs a better line.

and im not  arguing that crabby is a better wr. BB is the one who mentioned bay.

im just saying that there is nothing that constitutes taking crabby at #10.

Campbell is a good game manager, but no eye popping numbers. He = Trent Dilfer.

[2ND COMING]

Campbell is a good game manager, but no eye popping numbers. He = Trent Dilfer.

he doesnt have to though....cp ran for 2k yards. At the end of the year the line just didnt do its job properly...cp got most of his yards in the first half of the season and jc got most of tds there also.

[Option D]

he doesnt have to though....cp ran for 2k yards. At the end of the year the line just didnt do its job properly...cp got most of his yards in the first half of the season and jc got most of tds there also.

Yeah he balled out crazy...They dont pass block too well

[body88]

but but but the niners...with their new coach singletary will be featuring a RUN first offense.

hes implementing a very pro style offense.

body..you know how weak those big 12 defenses were...and you know how much tt passed every game...at least 50+ times a game.

of course crabtree will have better stats then bay who plays in a very pro style type of scheme.

many good wr's in the nfl dont grab 5td' per year and they play 17 games. not 12.

BB thinks crabby is the second coming of jesus because of his production. OFCOURSE he put up numbers. so did grahm and he wasnt drafted. Same thing with colt brenan...a system guy.

Not saying that I disagree with you, fully. I disagree with you about Crabtree being highly overrated.  Put him on the Pats, the Colts or on the Cards and he is a stud. However, you are correct about Crabtree being a perplexing pick for a run first defensive minded coach. Knicks might have been a better pick.  Its a reach sure, but he's got strong hands and he's physical.  Shit, come to think of it, they could have traded down and then nabbed Robinski or Britt on top of a nice pick  in the first.

[Option D]

Not saying that I disagree with you, fully. I disagree with you about Crabtree being highly overrated.  Put him on the Pats, the Colts or on the Cards and he is a stud. However, you are correct about Crabtree being a perplexing pick for a run first defensive minded coach. Knicks might have been a better pick.  Its a reach sure, but he's got strong hands and he's physical.  Shit, come to think of it, they could have traded down and then nabbed Robinski or Britt on top of a nice pick  in the first.

I would have went with a LBer. They are safe picks in the draft

[2ND COMING]

Not saying that I disagree with you, fully. I disagree with you about Crabtree being highly overrated.  Put him on the Pats, the Colts or on the Cards and he is a stud. However, you are correct about Crabtree being a perplexing pick for a run first defensive minded coach. Knicks might have been a better pick.  Its a reach sure, but he's got strong hands and he's physical.  Shit, come to think of it, they could have traded down and then nabbed Robinski or Britt on top of a nice pick  in the first.

i liked robinske. I think he was the safest pick at wr.

[Dos Equis]

yes. bb. Big 12 defenses vs. acc defenses. Look up the statistics. Big 12 defenses are WEAK. I'm gonna end this filla buster right now. theres no point in debating logic with a casual college football fan. Heywar bey played in a pro style offense. When a team passes 60 times a game....ala texas tech, chances are you might have a better statistical year rather than playing in a pro style offense. Do you know what pro style offense consists of? run first, play action, hb screens, full house toss etc. Not lining up with 5 wr sets every down.

Logic?  lol?  You mean like your contention that Crabtree was too short?  Or that 5'9" 185 Steve Smith is built like a brick house? Or that Hewyard-Bey had three solid seasons?  Is that the logic you're talking about? 

You need to actually watch the guys play.  That might change your outlook.  I'd also recommend looking up Troy Williamson.  His story sounds awfully familar to Heyward-Bey.

I will say that it is entirely possible that Heyward-Bey could turn out to be a better pro than Crabtree, because the draft really is a crapshoot, but I'll be very surprised if that happens.   

[Dos Equis]

Things are changing. Pats have been using the spread for years.  Lots of empty back fields and pass first downs used as a running game.  They switch it up and hammer you with the run at times, but other times they throw.  Crabtree would be sick in the pats O.

You're seeing more and more "spread" style O's in the pros.

I agree.  Pretty much every team in the league has some version of the spread offense. 

[Option D]

Logic?  lol?  You mean like your contention that Crabtree was too short?  Or that 5'9" 185 Steve Smith is built like a brick house? Or that Hewyard-Bey had three solid seasons?  Is that the logic you're talking about? 

You need to actually watch the guys play.  That might change your outlook.  I'd also recommend looking up Troy Williamson.  His story sounds awfully familar to Heyward-Bey.

I will say that it is entirely possible that Heyward-Bey could turn out to be a better pro than Crabtree, because the draft really is a crapshoot, but I'll be very surprised if that happens.   

NO!!!!!!!

[Dos Equis]

but but but the niners...with their new coach singletary will be featuring a RUN first offense.

hes implementing a very pro style offense.

body..you know how weak those big 12 defenses were...and you know how much tt passed every game...at least 50+ times a game.

of course crabtree will have better stats then bay who plays in a very pro style type of scheme.

many good wr's in the nfl dont grab 5td' per year and they play 17 games. not 12.

BB thinks crabby is the second coming of jesus because of his production. OFCOURSE he put up numbers. so did grahm and he wasnt drafted. Same thing with colt brenan...a system guy.

Not true.  I mentioned his production and his game film.  I know the difference between a guy who does nothing but put up numbers and a guy who can play.  That's the difference between our respective analysis.  You're relying on the copout "system" argument without having watched the kid play.  I've actually seen him.  Even though pretty much all of the scouts and teams, etc. had Crabtree ranked as the best WR in the draft, I based my view on what I saw on the field, along with his production.  Great football player.