A MASSIVE PWNING of a GAY MARRIAGE HATER!!!!!

[The True Adonis]

[Dos Equis]

Massive owning?  Hardly.  That host is a hack.  On one hand he was constantly saying there should be "religious accommodation" and on the other that there should be no religious accommodation.  It's interviews like this that keeps MSNBC's ratings down. 

[24KT]

Massive owning?  Hardly.  That host is a hack.  On one hand he was constantly saying there should be "religious accommodation" and on the other that there should be no religious accommodation.  It's interviews like this that keeps MSNBC's ratings down. 

We obviously didn't hear the same thing.

Quick question... in other parts of the world, where gay marriage is legal, ...why haven't those societies crumbled?
You do realize that there are entire countries where gay marriage is completely legal don't you?

[Hugo Chavez]

Massive owning?  Hardly.  That host is a hack.  On one hand he was constantly saying there should be "religious accommodation" and on the other that there should be no religious accommodation.  It's interviews like this that keeps MSNBC's ratings down. 

he was talking about "the public square"  Religion that's entering the public square vs. the church which would have such accommodations.

[The Coach]

So if I have the same opinion that Prejean has I'm a hater? I'd have to say that would make you people bigger haters than us. I guess it's only freedom of speech when libs say it is. Your party has proven to be the biggest haters, racists and hipocrites this country has ever seen. It amazes me everyday how you twist and spin. It's sickning.

[drkaje]

Can any thing be redefined without change taking place?

[24KT]

So if I have the same opinion that Prejean has I'm a hater?

Coach, ...we recognize you for what you are, ... a deluded fool. 

[Dos Equis]

he was talking about "the public square"  Religion that's entering the public square vs. the church which would have such accommodations.

He actually said "public square" then made the blanket statement about religious organizations "discriminating." 

But what does "public square" mean?  All religion is in the "public square."  That makes no sense. 

[The True Adonis]

He actually said "public square" then made the blanket statement about religious organizations "discriminating." 

But what does "public square" mean?  All religion is in the "public square."  That makes no sense. 

PERFORMED on public land, hence public square.

[Dos Equis]

PERFORMED on public land, hence public square.

Specifically? 

[MCWAY]

We obviously didn't hear the same thing.

Quick question... in other parts of the world, where gay marriage is legal, ...why haven't those societies crumbled

You do realize that there are entire countries where gay marriage is completely legal don't you?

They haven't crumbled......YET, unless you don't count a high out-of-wedlock birthrate and a low overall birthrate as a society "crumbled".

MARRIAGE IS SLOWLY DYING IN SCANDINAVIA. A majority of children in Sweden and Norway are born out of wedlock. Sixty percent of first-born children in Denmark have unmarried parents. Not coincidentally, these countries have had something close to full gay marriage for a decade or more. Same-sex marriage has locked in and reinforced an existing Scandinavian trend toward the separation of marriage and parenthood. The Nordic family pattern--including gay marriage--is spreading across Europe. And by looking closely at it we can answer the key empirical question underlying the gay marriage debate. Will same-sex marriage undermine the institution of marriage? It already has.

More precisely, it has further undermined the institution. The separation of marriage from parenthood was increasing; gay marriage has widened the separation. Out-of-wedlock birthrates were rising; gay marriage has added to the factors pushing those rates higher. Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable......

THE DECLINE OF MARRIAGE and the rise of unstable cohabitation and out-of-wedlock childbirth are not confined to Scandinavia. The Scandinavian welfare state aggravates these problems. Yet none of the forces weakening marriage there are unique to the region. Contraception, abortion, women in the workforce, spreading secularism, ascendant individualism, and a substantial welfare state are found in every Western country. That is why the Nordic pattern is spreading.

Yet the pattern is spreading unevenly. And scholars agree that cultural tradition plays a central role in determining whether a given country moves toward the Nordic family system. Religion is a key variable. A 2002 study by the Max Planck Institute, for example, concluded that countries with the lowest rates of family dissolution and out-of-wedlock births are "strongly dominated by the Catholic confession." The same study found that in countries with high levels of family dissolution, religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, had little influence.

British demographer Kathleen Kiernan, the acknowledged authority on the spread of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births across Europe, divides the continent into three zones. The Nordic countries are the leaders in cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births. They are followed by a middle group that includes the Netherlands, Belgium, Great Britain, and Germany. Until recently, France was a member of this middle group, but France's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has moved it into the Nordic category. North American rates of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock birth put the United States and Canada into this middle group. Most resistant to cohabitation, family dissolution, and out-of-wedlock births are the southern European countries of Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece, and, until recently, Switzerland and Ireland. (Ireland's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has just pushed it into the middle group.)

These three groupings closely track the movement for gay marriage. In the early nineties, gay marriage came to the Nordic countries, where the out-of-wedlock birthrate was already high. Ten years later, out-of-wedlock birth rates have risen significantly in the middle group of nations. Not coincidentally, nearly every country in that middle group has recently either legalized some form of gay marriage, or is seriously considering doing so. Only in the group with low out-of-wedlock birthrates has the gay marriage movement achieved relatively little success.

This suggests that gay marriage is both an effect and a cause of the increasing separation between marriage and parenthood. As rising out-of-wedlock birthrates disassociate heterosexual marriage from parenting, gay marriage becomes conceivable. If marriage is only about a relationship between two people, and is not intrinsically connected to parenthood, why shouldn't same-sex couples be allowed to marry? It follows that once marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, that change cannot help but lock in and reinforce the very cultural separation between marriage and parenthood that makes gay marriage conceivable to begin with.




http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp?pg=1

[Busted]

Massive owning?  Hardly.  That host is a hack.  On one hand he was constantly saying there should be "religious accommodation" and on the other that there should be no religious accommodation.  It's interviews like this that keeps MSNBC's ratings down. 

Right wingers have a hard time processing what people say inless its EXACTLY what they want to hear...

[MCWAY]

Right wingers have a hard time processing what people say inless its EXACTLY what they want to hear...

Remember that we wouldn't even be talking about this, if a certain fruity beauty paegant judge hadn't thrown a tantrum, because a contestant said something that wasn't EXACTLY what he wanted to hear.

[Dos Equis]

They haven't crumbled......YET, unless you don't count a high out-of-wedlock birthrate and a low overall birthrate as a society "crumbled".

MARRIAGE IS SLOWLY DYING IN SCANDINAVIA. A majority of children in Sweden and Norway are born out of wedlock. Sixty percent of first-born children in Denmark have unmarried parents. Not coincidentally, these countries have had something close to full gay marriage for a decade or more. Same-sex marriage has locked in and reinforced an existing Scandinavian trend toward the separation of marriage and parenthood. The Nordic family pattern--including gay marriage--is spreading across Europe. And by looking closely at it we can answer the key empirical question underlying the gay marriage debate. Will same-sex marriage undermine the institution of marriage? It already has.

More precisely, it has further undermined the institution. The separation of marriage from parenthood was increasing; gay marriage has widened the separation. Out-of-wedlock birthrates were rising; gay marriage has added to the factors pushing those rates higher. Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable......

THE DECLINE OF MARRIAGE and the rise of unstable cohabitation and out-of-wedlock childbirth are not confined to Scandinavia. The Scandinavian welfare state aggravates these problems. Yet none of the forces weakening marriage there are unique to the region. Contraception, abortion, women in the workforce, spreading secularism, ascendant individualism, and a substantial welfare state are found in every Western country. That is why the Nordic pattern is spreading.

Yet the pattern is spreading unevenly. And scholars agree that cultural tradition plays a central role in determining whether a given country moves toward the Nordic family system. Religion is a key variable. A 2002 study by the Max Planck Institute, for example, concluded that countries with the lowest rates of family dissolution and out-of-wedlock births are "strongly dominated by the Catholic confession." The same study found that in countries with high levels of family dissolution, religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, had little influence.

British demographer Kathleen Kiernan, the acknowledged authority on the spread of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births across Europe, divides the continent into three zones. The Nordic countries are the leaders in cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births. They are followed by a middle group that includes the Netherlands, Belgium, Great Britain, and Germany. Until recently, France was a member of this middle group, but France's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has moved it into the Nordic category. North American rates of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock birth put the United States and Canada into this middle group. Most resistant to cohabitation, family dissolution, and out-of-wedlock births are the southern European countries of Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece, and, until recently, Switzerland and Ireland. (Ireland's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has just pushed it into the middle group.)

These three groupings closely track the movement for gay marriage. In the early nineties, gay marriage came to the Nordic countries, where the out-of-wedlock birthrate was already high. Ten years later, out-of-wedlock birth rates have risen significantly in the middle group of nations. Not coincidentally, nearly every country in that middle group has recently either legalized some form of gay marriage, or is seriously considering doing so. Only in the group with low out-of-wedlock birthrates has the gay marriage movement achieved relatively little success.

This suggests that gay marriage is both an effect and a cause of the increasing separation between marriage and parenthood. As rising out-of-wedlock birthrates disassociate heterosexual marriage from parenting, gay marriage becomes conceivable. If marriage is only about a relationship between two people, and is not intrinsically connected to parenthood, why shouldn't same-sex couples be allowed to marry? It follows that once marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, that change cannot help but lock in and reinforce the very cultural separation between marriage and parenthood that makes gay marriage conceivable to begin with.




http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp?pg=1

Good commentary.  Thanks for posting this McWay.  Definitely an alarming trend in those countries. 

[Dos Equis]

Remember that we wouldn't even be talking about this, if a certain fruity beauty paegant judge hadn't thrown a tantrum, because a contestant said something that wasn't EXACTLY what he wanted to hear.

Truth. 

[24KT]

So what you're saying is the 'gay' people are responsible for all these out-of-wedlock births?
Last I checked, 2 gay people couldn't make a baby. Isn't that the argument always trotted out; that God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve? Sounds to me like it is heterosexuals that are opting not to marry, ...and they are the ones creating babies out of wedlock. The biggest threat to marriage is divorce, ...or not entering into the institution altogether. Limiting the potential candidates who enter into it, does nothing to protect it, ...only hastens it's chances of dying out faster.

[24KT]

Right wingers have a hard time processing what people say inless its EXACTLY what they want to hear...

Ain't that the truth. It's not enough to see a bunch of dots... you need to connect them properly to see an accurate picture. Most right wingers wouldn't know accuracy if if jumped up and bit them on the scrotum.

[The True Adonis]

They haven't crumbled......YET, unless you don't count a high out-of-wedlock birthrate and a low overall birthrate as a society "crumbled".

MARRIAGE IS SLOWLY DYING IN SCANDINAVIA. A majority of children in Sweden and Norway are born out of wedlock. Sixty percent of first-born children in Denmark have unmarried parents. Not coincidentally, these countries have had something close to full gay marriage for a decade or more. Same-sex marriage has locked in and reinforced an existing Scandinavian trend toward the separation of marriage and parenthood. The Nordic family pattern--including gay marriage--is spreading across Europe. And by looking closely at it we can answer the key empirical question underlying the gay marriage debate. Will same-sex marriage undermine the institution of marriage? It already has.

More precisely, it has further undermined the institution. The separation of marriage from parenthood was increasing; gay marriage has widened the separation. Out-of-wedlock birthrates were rising; gay marriage has added to the factors pushing those rates higher. Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable......

THE DECLINE OF MARRIAGE and the rise of unstable cohabitation and out-of-wedlock childbirth are not confined to Scandinavia. The Scandinavian welfare state aggravates these problems. Yet none of the forces weakening marriage there are unique to the region. Contraception, abortion, women in the workforce, spreading secularism, ascendant individualism, and a substantial welfare state are found in every Western country. That is why the Nordic pattern is spreading.

Yet the pattern is spreading unevenly. And scholars agree that cultural tradition plays a central role in determining whether a given country moves toward the Nordic family system. Religion is a key variable. A 2002 study by the Max Planck Institute, for example, concluded that countries with the lowest rates of family dissolution and out-of-wedlock births are "strongly dominated by the Catholic confession." The same study found that in countries with high levels of family dissolution, religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, had little influence.

British demographer Kathleen Kiernan, the acknowledged authority on the spread of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births across Europe, divides the continent into three zones. The Nordic countries are the leaders in cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births. They are followed by a middle group that includes the Netherlands, Belgium, Great Britain, and Germany. Until recently, France was a member of this middle group, but France's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has moved it into the Nordic category. North American rates of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock birth put the United States and Canada into this middle group. Most resistant to cohabitation, family dissolution, and out-of-wedlock births are the southern European countries of Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece, and, until recently, Switzerland and Ireland. (Ireland's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has just pushed it into the middle group.)

These three groupings closely track the movement for gay marriage. In the early nineties, gay marriage came to the Nordic countries, where the out-of-wedlock birthrate was already high. Ten years later, out-of-wedlock birth rates have risen significantly in the middle group of nations. Not coincidentally, nearly every country in that middle group has recently either legalized some form of gay marriage, or is seriously considering doing so. Only in the group with low out-of-wedlock birthrates has the gay marriage movement achieved relatively little success.

This suggests that gay marriage is both an effect and a cause of the increasing separation between marriage and parenthood. As rising out-of-wedlock birthrates disassociate heterosexual marriage from parenting, gay marriage becomes conceivable. If marriage is only about a relationship between two people, and is not intrinsically connected to parenthood, why shouldn't same-sex couples be allowed to marry? It follows that once marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, that change cannot help but lock in and reinforce the very cultural separation between marriage and parenthood that makes gay marriage conceivable to begin with.




http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp?pg=1

uh, I suggest researching the correlation of intelligence and affluence with a low birth rate.  Clearly you are a victim of Biased Message Processing.  You are taking information and Biasing it in a way that most supports or best benefits your interests.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility_and_intelligence


Demographic studies have indicated that in humans, fertility and intelligence tend to be negatively correlated, that is to say, the more intelligent, as measured by IQ, exhibit a lower total fertility rate than the less intelligent. Other correlates of fertility include income, diet, and educational attainment.

[The True Adonis]

So what you're saying is the 'gay' people are responsible for all these out-of-wedlock births?
Last I checked, 2 gay people couldn't make a baby. Isn't that the argument always trotted out; that God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve? Sounds to me like it is heterosexuals that are opting not to marry, ...and they are the ones creating babies out of wedlock. The biggest threat to marriage is divorce, ...or not entering into the institution altogether. Limiting the potential candidates who enter into it, does nothing to protect it, ...only hastens it's chances of dying out faster.

Exactly!

I have no clue what he was trying to display since Gay couples in those countries are able to marry and are unable to have children out of wedlock.  IT is astounding the mental gymnastics they play on a daily basis.

[The True Adonis]

A theory to explain the fertility-intelligence relationship is that fertility is conversely driven by income.[22][23] This well studied correlation is known as the demographic-economic paradox, which shows an inverse correlation between wealth and fertility within and between nations. The higher the degree of education and GDP per capita of a human population, subpopulation or social stratum, the fewer children are born.

[24KT]

Life will soon imitate art, ...if it hasn't already  <-- click me

[Rami]

What's worse for a child, forced religious indoctrination, or being brought up in gay parentship?

[24KT]

What's worse for a child, forced religious indoctrination, or being brought up in gay parentship?

Having only experienced one side of that equation, ...I'd have to say forced religious indoctrination.

[LurkerNoMore]

They haven't crumbled......YET, unless you don't count a high out-of-wedlock birthrate and a low overall birthrate as a society "crumbled".

MARRIAGE IS SLOWLY DYING IN SCANDINAVIA. A majority of children in Sweden and Norway are born out of wedlock. Sixty percent of first-born children in Denmark have unmarried parents. Not coincidentally, these countries have had something close to full gay marriage for a decade or more. Same-sex marriage has locked in and reinforced an existing Scandinavian trend toward the separation of marriage and parenthood. The Nordic family pattern--including gay marriage--is spreading across Europe. And by looking closely at it we can answer the key empirical question underlying the gay marriage debate. Will same-sex marriage undermine the institution of marriage? It already has.

More precisely, it has further undermined the institution. The separation of marriage from parenthood was increasing; gay marriage has widened the separation. Out-of-wedlock birthrates were rising; gay marriage has added to the factors pushing those rates higher. Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable......

THE DECLINE OF MARRIAGE and the rise of unstable cohabitation and out-of-wedlock childbirth are not confined to Scandinavia. The Scandinavian welfare state aggravates these problems. Yet none of the forces weakening marriage there are unique to the region. Contraception, abortion, women in the workforce, spreading secularism, ascendant individualism, and a substantial welfare state are found in every Western country. That is why the Nordic pattern is spreading.

Yet the pattern is spreading unevenly. And scholars agree that cultural tradition plays a central role in determining whether a given country moves toward the Nordic family system. Religion is a key variable. A 2002 study by the Max Planck Institute, for example, concluded that countries with the lowest rates of family dissolution and out-of-wedlock births are "strongly dominated by the Catholic confession." The same study found that in countries with high levels of family dissolution, religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, had little influence.

British demographer Kathleen Kiernan, the acknowledged authority on the spread of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births across Europe, divides the continent into three zones. The Nordic countries are the leaders in cohabitation and out-of-wedlock births. They are followed by a middle group that includes the Netherlands, Belgium, Great Britain, and Germany. Until recently, France was a member of this middle group, but France's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has moved it into the Nordic category. North American rates of cohabitation and out-of-wedlock birth put the United States and Canada into this middle group. Most resistant to cohabitation, family dissolution, and out-of-wedlock births are the southern European countries of Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Greece, and, until recently, Switzerland and Ireland. (Ireland's rising out-of-wedlock birthrate has just pushed it into the middle group.)

These three groupings closely track the movement for gay marriage. In the early nineties, gay marriage came to the Nordic countries, where the out-of-wedlock birthrate was already high. Ten years later, out-of-wedlock birth rates have risen significantly in the middle group of nations. Not coincidentally, nearly every country in that middle group has recently either legalized some form of gay marriage, or is seriously considering doing so. Only in the group with low out-of-wedlock birthrates has the gay marriage movement achieved relatively little success.

This suggests that gay marriage is both an effect and a cause of the increasing separation between marriage and parenthood. As rising out-of-wedlock birthrates disassociate heterosexual marriage from parenting, gay marriage becomes conceivable. If marriage is only about a relationship between two people, and is not intrinsically connected to parenthood, why shouldn't same-sex couples be allowed to marry? It follows that once marriage is redefined to accommodate same-sex couples, that change cannot help but lock in and reinforce the very cultural separation between marriage and parenthood that makes gay marriage conceivable to begin with.




http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/660zypwj.asp?pg=1

Attempting to link gay marriage to out of wedlock births is laughable to me considering that gay marriages do not produce births at all in the first place.

[ASJChaotic]

Life will soon imitate art, ...if it hasn't already  <-- click me

so true