Author Topic: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy  (Read 3586 times)

Dos Equis

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Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« on: May 15, 2009, 12:27:36 PM »
I'll post this on the religion board too.  Tough issue. 

Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy 
Posted 5/15/2009 2:14 PM ET
By Amy Forliti, Associated Press Writer

MINNEAPOLIS — A Minnesota judge ruled Friday that a 13-year-old cancer patient must be evaluated by a doctor to determine if the boy would benefit from restarting chemotherapy over his parents' objections.
In a 58-page ruling, Brown County District Judge John Rodenberg found that Daniel Hauser has been "medically neglected" by his parents, Colleen and Anthony Hauser, and was in need of child protection services.

While he allowed Daniel to stay with his parents, the judge gave the Hausers until Tuesday to get an updated chest X-ray for their son and select an oncologist.

If the evaluation shows the cancer had advanced to a point where chemotherapy and radiation would no longer help, the judge said, he would not order the boy to undergo treatment.

The judge wrote that Daniel has only a "rudimentary understanding at best of the risks and benefits of chemotherapy. ... he does not believe he is ill currently. The fact is that he is very ill currently."

Daniel's court-appointed attorney, Philip Elbert, called the decision unfortunate.

"I feel it's a blow to families," he said. "It marginalizes the decisions that parents face every day in regard to their children's medical care. It really affirms the role that big government is better at making our decisions for us."

Elbert said he hadn't spoken to his client yet. The phone line at the Hauser home in Sleepy Eye in southwestern Minnesota had a busy signal Friday. The parents' attorney had no immediate comment but planned to issue a statement.

Daniel was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma and stopped chemotherapy in February after a single treatment. He and his parents opted instead for "alternative medicines" based on their religious beliefs.

Child protection workers accused Daniel's parents of medical neglect; but in court, his mother insisted the boy wouldn't submit to chemotherapy for religious reasons and she said she wouldn't comply if the court orders it.

Doctors have said Daniel's cancer had up to a 90 percent chance of being cured with chemotherapy and radiation. Without those treatments, doctors said his chances of survival are 5 percent.

Daniel's parents have been supporting what they say is their son's decision to treat the disease with nutritional supplements and other alternative treatments favored by the Nemenhah Band.

The Missouri-based religious group believes in natural healing methods advocated by some American Indians.

After the first chemotherapy treatment, the family said they wanted a second opinion, said Dr. Bruce Bostrom, a pediatric oncologist who recommended Daniel undergo chemotherapy and radiation.

They later informed him that Daniel would not undergo any more chemotherapy. Bostrom said Daniel's tumor shrunk after the first chemotherapy session, but X-rays show it has grown since he stopped the chemotherapy.

"My son is not in any medical danger at this point," Colleen Hauser testified at a court hearing last week. She also testified that Daniel is a medicine man and elder in the Nemenhah Band.

The family's attorney, Calvin Johnson, said Daniel made the decision himself to refuse chemotherapy, but Brown County said he did not have an understanding of what it meant to be a medicine man or an elder.

Court filings also indicated Daniel has a learning disability and can't read.

The Hausers have eight children. Colleen Hauser told the New Ulm Journal newspaper that the family's Catholicism and adherence to the Nemenhah Band are not in conflict, and that she has used natural remedies to treat illness.

Nemenhah was founded in the 1990s by Philip Cloudpiler Landis, who said Thursday he once served four months in prison in Idaho for fraud related to advocating natural remedies.

Landis said he founded the faith after facing his diagnosis of a cancer similar to Daniel Hauser. He said he treated it with diet choices, visits to a sweat lodge and other natural remedies.

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=honoluluadvertiser&sParam=30758035.story

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2009, 12:34:59 PM »
I cannot believe how stupid some people are.

Most 'alternative treatments', especially if based on religious beliefs, are voodoo bullshit. If the kid dies they should charge these retards with criminally negligent manslaughter.


Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2009, 12:36:50 PM »
I don't know.  I know people who tried "natural" cancer treatments and it wasn't just religious based.  Didn't work, but not something I'd consider crazy. 

Different dynamic when a kid is involved though. 

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2009, 12:39:08 PM »
If it works, great... but I'll bet 99% are bullshit... And with cancer there is little room for trial and error.

The kid is going to suffer, and maybe die because the parents want to play indian here.

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2009, 12:41:19 PM »
If it works, great... but I'll bet 99% are bullshit... And with cancer there is little room for trial and error.

The kid is going to suffer, and maybe die because the parents want to play indian here.

That assumes the chemo and radiation would is successful.  After seeing people suffer through those treatments, I don't fault anyone who doesn't want to go through it. 

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 12:46:12 PM »
According to the article:

Success with Chemo = 90%

Success with 'faith crystals' or "The spirit of the Buffalo', ... or whatever they are using= 5%

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 12:49:28 PM »
Those are pretty good odds.  If it were my kid, I would have done the treatment, but I don't condemn these parents. 

Have you ever seen someone go through chemo and radiation and then die anyway?  It's not pretty. 

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 12:58:56 PM »
I would have to say that it is unlikely that there is going to be a good outcome if the parents insist on following their decision on this course of treatment.

Historically, it has been a legal tenant that parents are free to make bad decisions regarding their children.  In my case, my parents made bad decisions with respect to money investments, allowing other children to abuse me without restraint, not allowing me to attend another school campus that the district said would be better for me (they insisted on me attending in the 'hood), not filling out financial aid forms so I could go to college away from home (so I would be home every night), and in general conspiring to keep me under their thumbs.  Some parents being controlling has been good for the child because they were good at it.  Mine were so very bad at it, the result being that my lifelong horizons are very much diminished compared to what they would be with just four different decisions at key points.  I am sure if I had a serious illness as a child that they would have screwed that up too.

Minor children are considered property in the eyes of the legal system, governed by the same laws that govern lost briefcases and umbrellas.

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 01:26:50 PM »
Those are pretty good odds.  If it were my kid, I would have done the treatment, but I don't condemn these parents. 

Have you ever seen someone go through chemo and radiation and then die anyway?  It's not pretty. 

Yes, I have.

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 01:34:48 PM »
Yes, I have.

Then you should have a better understanding of why someone would forego chemo and radiation.  I'm not even sure what I would do if I had cancer.  I recently lost a friend who tried the natural approach.  I wish he would have done radiation right away, but he wound up losing about 80 pounds of fat and said he felt terrific.  I understand why he took that path.

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 01:44:26 PM »
Then you should have a better understanding of why someone would forego chemo and radiation.  I'm not even sure what I would do if I had cancer.  I recently lost a friend who tried the natural approach.  I wish he would have done radiation right away, but he wound up losing about 80 pounds of fat and said he felt terrific.  I understand why he took that path.

Beach, the issue here is that the parents are being irresponsible. They are applying their back-asswards beliefs to this kid and it is putting him in imminent danger. The kid could die because they are doing this. Sometimes doing what is right causes suffering. I didn't want to take my kid in to get her shots because I know it hurts, but I realize the disease she could get would be way worse than the pain of the shots.

I took care of business, I did not chant around the drum circle and create magic to protect the kid...  That's retarded.

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 01:58:36 PM »
Beach, the issue here is that the parents are being irresponsible. They are applying their back-asswards beliefs to this kid and it is putting him in imminent danger. The kid could die because they are doing this. Sometimes doing what is right causes suffering. I didn't want to take my kid in to get her shots because I know it hurts, but I realize the disease she could get would be way worse than the pain of the shots.

I took care of business, I did not chant around the drum circle and create magic to protect the kid...  That's retarded.

Yes I understand the issue.  As I said, if it were my kid I would have done the treatment.

The kid could die with the treatment too.  Unlikely given the odds, but still possible. 

I'm really not sure what I think about the parents in this case.   

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 02:17:08 PM »
Yes I understand the issue.  As I said, if it were my kid I would have done the treatment.

The kid could die with the treatment too.  Unlikely given the odds, but still possible. 

I'm really not sure what I think about the parents in this case.   

What does the child want?
w

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 02:20:20 PM »
What does the child want?

I don't think it matters.  The kid can't even read.  I doubt he understands the gravity of this decision. 

Stormspirit

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 03:02:01 PM »
I'm very against government intrusion like this but I can't make up my mind here on what's right.  At 13 years old I basically thought the same way as my parents and did what they said, didn't really start thinking for myself till I was older.

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 03:03:48 PM »
I'm very against government intrusion like this but I can't make up my mind here on what's right.  At 13 years old I basically thought the same way as my parents and did what they said, didn't really start thinking for myself till I was older.

Yeah, but you weren't like this:  "Court filings also indicated Daniel has a learning disability and can't read."  This kid doesn't even think he's sick. 

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 04:12:39 PM »
I'm very against government intrusion like this but I can't make up my mind here on what's right.  At 13 years old I basically thought the same way as my parents and did what they said, didn't really start thinking for myself till I was older.

Government needs to mind its own business. Let the religious loonies do what they want.
I hate the State.

Hereford

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2009, 04:30:51 PM »
Government needs to mind its own business. Let the religious loonies do what they want.

I recognize that.

That's sarcasm, right?

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 04:52:27 PM »
I recognize that.

That's sarcasm, right?

No. I am high now but I mean it. Government has no business interfering in peoples' lives.
I hate the State.

Straw Man

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 06:08:50 PM »
I don't think it matters.  The kid can't even read.  I doubt he understands the gravity of this decision. 

He's 13 years old and he can't read?

WTF?

Is he being home-schooled by you?

Dos Equis

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2009, 06:34:22 PM »
He's 13 years old and he can't read?

WTF?

Is he being home-schooled by you?

Aw did I hurt the little man's feelings?  lol. . . .

Straw Man

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2009, 06:39:03 PM »
Aw did I hurt the little man's feelings?  lol. . . .

why would my feelings be hurt?

The Master

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2009, 06:45:04 PM »
Good thing the gouvernment took charge here. Moron parents like that has no business bringing their stupidity onto their children when lives are at stake.

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2009, 07:42:27 PM »
I don't think it matters.  The kid can't even read.  I doubt he understands the gravity of this decision. 

Whether or not he can read is irrelevant, ...he feels. I don't know that this is the parents decision so much as it is the parents adopting the child's decision. Afterall, they did originally agree to chemo didn't they?

I don't know if any of you have ever had someone close to you go through chemo, but if you did, I'm sure you'd understand why this may not necessarily be the parents decision, as well as why someone undergoing chemo would want to stop. I had a friend go through it, and I swear I thought the doctor's were killing him. Chemo is not pleasant, it knocks you on your ass so hard, it makes you wonder whether the cure is not worse than the disease. I can understand why someone with cancer would prefer to face the cancer rather than the chemo.

Has the kid reached puberty yet?
w

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Re: Judge rules family can't refuse chemo for boy
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2009, 07:52:12 PM »
Whether or not he can read is irrelevant, ...he feels. I don't know that this is the parents decision so much as it is the parents adopting the child's decision. Afterall, they did originally agree to chemo didn't they?

I don't know if any of you have ever had someone close to you go through chemo, but if you did, I'm sure you'd understand why this may not necessarily be the parents decision, as well as why someone undergoing chemo would want to stop. I had a friend go through it, and I swear I thought the doctor's were killing him. Chemo is not pleasant, it knocks you on your ass so hard, it makes you wonder whether the cure is not worse than the disease. I can understand why someone with cancer would prefer to face the cancer rather than the chemo.

Has the kid reached puberty yet?

His intellectual capacity is relevant.  The fact he can't read at age 13 shows how severe his learning disability is.  A 13-year-old is not old enough to make a life or death decision like this.  That's particularly true of a 13-year old with a severe learning disability, who doesn't even understand that he's sick.   

As I said a couple times earlier in the thread, I know people who have gone through chemo and radiation, and still died.  It's a very unpleasant treatment.  I don't blame anyone who decides to forego that treatment and rely on natural methods.

No idea if he has reached puberty.