Training delts after arms?

[paulsed1]

Was thinking of training delts today, two days after tri's and bi's.  Anyone train shoulders this soon after arms?  I was thinking of only doing 1 or 2 compound moves, standing presses and uprights.  The standing presses I might even do as non-lockout.  Tri's and bi's are still a bit sore, just looking for opinions.  I am a big fan of antagonistic training, chest and back on same day, bi's and tri's.  I always try to figure out where to stick delts.

[pumpster]

If arms are still sore i'd wait-do legs, or cardio/abs or have a rest day.

Agree that it's a little hard to decide where to stick delts; hit them after some of the other muscles iand see what the most comfortable sequence of exercises ends up being. Or do them on separate days just as you're intending today, but not so they collide with recuperation of other muscles. Use leg, cardio, rest days or something else as padding days until recupteration is complete.

This is just my opinion - i used to train sometimes while sore and didn't find any advantage to doing it and believe that recuperation is key to gains.

[buffbong]

for a long time i stuck with a four day spilt.
chest tri
back calves
off
shoulders bi
legs
off
off

with my current schedule i had to switch to a three day routine and this is what works best for me.

monday chest tris calves

wensday back and shoulders

friday legs bis

rest of days off.

[paulsed1]

If arms are still sore i'd wait-do legs, or cardio/abs or have a rest day.

Agree that it's a little hard to decide where to stick delts; hit them after some of the other muscles iand see what the most comfortable sequence of exercises ends up being. Or do them on separate days just as you're intending today, but not so they collide with recuperation of other muscles. Use leg, cardio, rest days or something else as padding days until recupteration is complete.

This is just my opinion - i used to train sometimes while sore and didn't find any advantage to doing it and believe that recuperation is key to gains.

Yeah, I agree with the recuperation thing, I am going to wait on 'em.  One thing I find as I get older is you can still train hard but the recuperative powers aren't what they used to be.  Once a week is enough for me if I train the muscle hard enough.  Can't believe Arnold's Encyclopedia has advanced routines training three days a week for hours at a clip, double split no less.  Who the heck can train like that?

[pumpster]

Can't believe Arnold's Encyclopedia has advanced routines training three days a week for hours at a clip, double split no less.  Who the heck can train like that?

People are fooled by that. The 6 day a week, thrice weekly per muscle thing was strictly pre-contest, and makes some sense. Even some HIT guys say it can be more effective to do more volume and increase the frequency. But it's not the only way of getting highly refined.

Most top BBs of the last 50 years used twice weekly per muscle for size. There's no reason at all that recuperation won't allow that.

As far as age, isn't that much of a factor until much later in life, if you're getting enough rest and nutrition and use brief workouts that are intense-which makes sense at any age and doesn't tax the CNS as much.

[paulsed1]

True, length of the workouts is a big factor.  The Big Beyond Belief systems by Optimum Training Systems seems to make sense, it can be done 6 days but the sessions are only 45 mins or so.  Those Arnold routines were usually a lot longer, dozens of sets three times a week for the bigger bodyparts.  More than one way to do things of course.

[Lucky Lance]

Here's what has worked best for me:

4-day split
Day 1 - Chest, traps, abs, cardio
Day 2 - rest
Day 3 - Delts, triceps, abs, cardio
Day 4 - Back, biceps, cardio
Day 5 - rest
Day 6 - Legs
Day 7 - rest; cardio outside of gym (walking in the park with my kids or something)

With this split, my delts and triceps don't even get slightly hit (via chest day) for 5 days and every bodypart gets directly hit every 7 days.  There's no golden rule though with workout structure.  Just make sure you don't overtrain or undereat, and make the most out of the short time frame in the gym each day that you can then get out and live life.

[wild willie]

I wouldn't train delts if your tris are sore......give the tris a chance to recover and then hit delts. IMHO

[wild willie]

People are fooled by that. The 6 day a week, thrice weekly per muscle thing was strictly pre-contest, and makes some sense. Even some HIT guys say it can be more effective to do more volume and increase the frequency. But it's not the only way of getting highly refined.

Most top BBs of the last 50 years used twice weekly per muscle for size. There's no reason at all that recuperation won't allow that.

As far as age, isn't that much of a factor until much later in life, if you're getting enough rest and nutrition and use brief workouts that are intense-which makes sense at any age and doesn't tax the CNS as much.

I think that some of the old stories told about Arnold's training is a tad bunk.....I was told by Ed Corney that he and Arnold performed maybe 20 sets before a show.....but that during the offseason they performed fewer sets and concentrated on working up to heavier poundages......then during precontest preperation, they would up the sets, but not too much higher than 20 sets.......then you haver crazy people like Defendis and Michalik who recommend a whopping 60 sets......what a joke!

[wild willie]

Here's what has worked best for me:

4-day split
Day 1 - Chest, traps, abs, cardio
Day 2 - rest
Day 3 - Delts, triceps, abs, cardio
Day 4 - Back, biceps, cardio
Day 5 - rest
Day 6 - Legs
Day 7 - rest; cardio outside of gym (walking in the park with my kids or something)

With this split, my delts and triceps don't even get slightly hit (via chest day) for 5 days and every bodypart gets directly hit every 7 days.  There's no golden rule though with workout structure.  Just make sure you don't overtrain or undereat, and make the most out of the short time frame in the gym each day that you can then get out and live life.

X2

[pumpster]

I think that some of the old stories told about Arnold's training is a tad bunk.....I was told by Ed Corney that he and Arnold performed maybe 20 sets before a show.....but that during the offseason they performed fewer sets and concentrated on working up to heavier poundages......then during precontest preperation, they would up the sets, but not too much higher than 20 sets.......then you haver crazy people like Defendis and Michalik who recommend a whopping 60 sets......what a joke!

The basics of getting size haven't changed much, it's analogous to training for a sprinter. Relatively brief, intense, increase the weights.

Michalik has always been mentally unstable, as documented in various articles including one in the Village Voice in the 90s that i think is still online.

[elite_lifter]

My split:

Sunday-Legs
Tuesday-Chest/bis
Thursday-Back
Friday-Shoulders/Traps/Tris

[wes]

Back in the day,lots of guys,Arnold and Larry Scott included trained delts first followed by arms on the same day.

A sample routine would be as follows:

Day #1:
Chest & Back

Day # 2:
Shoulders & Arms

Day # 3:
Legs

Repeat for 3 more days with Sunday off.

In essence,you are working your torso one day,upper body appendages the next day,followed by lower body appendages the next day.........can be used 3 x weekly.