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Author Topic: Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit  (Read 1350 times)
Dos Equis
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« on: May 28, 2009, 08:09:34 PM »

Absolutely ridiculous. 

Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit
Thursday, May 28, 2009 

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a Bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the Bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a Bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple Bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of Bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.

If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 08:10:52 PM »

Unfuckingbelievable...

 Angry
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 08:38:25 PM »

retarded.
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 09:06:43 PM »

permit Huh  You have got to be fucking kidding me...  Some of the craziest shit has been coming out of that place, what are they doing, trying to beat out San Fran for WTFs?
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 09:09:36 PM »

sounds crazy... but...

we never heard how many "friends" assemble every day for bible study.

If you get 500 people together every morning for an organized religious assembly, then yeah, get a permit if the law requires it.  Or work to change the law.

That's the only way I can see this being an issue.  They got busted on Good Friday... so if they had 1200 people show up for a church service/"meeting", yeah, just get a permit and stop whining.
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 09:10:07 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nreTjW_usKs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nreTjW_usKs</a>
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2009, 09:12:04 PM »

Could it be that this is not perceived as just "an individual" having friends over,
...but rather "a pastor" who they believe to be holding church services perhaps?  Huh
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2009, 09:12:57 PM »

sounds crazy... but...

we never heard how many "friends" assemble every day for bible study.

If you get 500 people together every morning for an organized religious assembly, then yeah, get a permit if the law requires it.  Or work to change the law.

That's the only way I can see this being an issue.  They got busted on Good Friday... so if they had 1200 people show up for a church service/"meeting", yeah, just get a permit and stop whining.

EXACTLY!!!
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 09:18:06 PM »

i doubt they could have that many people over at one time. 
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 09:18:46 PM »

sounds crazy... but...

we never heard how many "friends" assemble every day for bible study.

If you get 500 people together every morning for an organized religious assembly, then yeah, get a permit if the law requires it.  Or work to change the law.

That's the only way I can see this being an issue.  They got busted on Good Friday... so if they had 1200 people show up for a church service/"meeting", yeah, just get a permit and stop whining.
15
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 09:24:41 PM »

people have parties all the time with 15 people, they don't get shut down unless there is a noise problem. and yea, there's that guy in every neighborhood that has a party every Friday or Saturday.  The only thing shutting them down is noise, underage or charging for alcohol. They don't go up to the homeowner and ask if someone there worships the porcelain once a week lol... Like they asked him in that video I posted.
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 09:28:31 PM »

people have parties all the time with 15 people, they don't get shut down unless there is a noise problem. and yea, there's that guy in every neighborhood that has a party every Friday or Saturday.  The only thing shutting them down is noise, underage or charging for alcohol. They don't go up to the homeowner and ask if someone there worships the porcelain once a week lol... Like they asked him in that video I posted.

any info about whether they were raising money/collecting donations, etc..?
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2009, 09:33:24 PM »

any info about whether they were raising money/collecting donations, etc..?
I can't find any info on that and I don't think it's one of the accusations.  Also worth noting is that the complaint was made by someone who doesn't even live on the circle.  Everyone on the circle is fine with it.
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2009, 09:35:32 PM »

yeah, if it's 15 it's probably not a big deal.

Still, playing devil's advocate...

if my next door neighbor held a meeting where there were 15 cars parked on my street every morning for 4 hours (prayer + meal + etc), I'd have a problem with it.  I don't care if it's a Ron paul club meeting or an NRA meeting.  Because the minute it's okay, then the other 20 houses on my street can leagally do it too.  Suddenly there are 300 cars on my block every day.


See what I mean?  I could care less what people do in their house... but 15 guests = 15 cars = a big deal if everybody does it.
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 09:42:23 PM »

bible study is usually once a week and all his neighbors are fine with it.  Some dude that doesn't even live there made the complaint.  And we've all seen the guy that has parties every week and fills the street with cars.  There's always one of them somewhere.  They don't have to pay the city to have their parties.
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 09:48:02 PM »

I bet it's not even 15 cars.  Some probably show up together.
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2009, 10:03:42 PM »

true... i'm just playing devil's advocate.

If you allow organized assemblies for 1 house, you gotta allow it for everyone.
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2009, 10:13:03 PM »

true... i'm just playing devil's advocate.

If you allow organized assemblies for 1 house, you gotta allow it for everyone.

It should be allowed for everyone.  The chances that everyone on one street up and does it at the same time is astronomical.  The chances are probably rare that multiple meetings happen on one street at the same time.  And the practice is already there across the country in small and big towns and cities.  This guy didn't set a new trend.  The only thing new here is a city seeking to shut down/extort one of these countless bible studies held across the country.
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2009, 10:16:05 PM »

WTF, I'm defending Christians Undecided  lol...
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« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2009, 10:21:44 PM »

That's the biggest load of poop I've ever heard EVER.
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2009, 10:45:12 PM »

WTF, I'm defending Christians Undecided  lol...

lol.   Smiley  You don't have to look at it that way.  You're defending the First Amendment.

We do some dumb things in our society, but this one takes the cake.  You're right about people car pooling.  Having participated in numerous Bible studies, I can tell you that multiple people come in cars all the time.  I doubt there were 15 cars.  Even if there were, if the neighbors don't care then so what?

Regarding some of the other comments, no you could never fit 1200 people in someone's house.  lol. . . . And no, you never take "donations" at a Bible study.  It's nothing more than a group of people sitting around "talking story" (as we say here).       
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2009, 05:13:40 AM »

I could not believe this when I read about this yesterday.  How is this even legal? 
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2009, 05:16:07 AM »

Absolutely ridiculous. 

Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit
Thursday, May 28, 2009 

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a Bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the Bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a Bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple Bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of Bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.

If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html

Most religious people are delusional idiots but they should be allowed to practise all the delusion and idiocy they feel like. Freedom of Stupidity I say.
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2009, 05:36:15 AM »

lol.   Smiley  You don't have to look at it that way.  You're defending the First Amendment.

We do some dumb things in our society, but this one takes the cake.  You're right about people car pooling.  Having participated in numerous Bible studies, I can tell you that multiple people come in cars all the time.  I doubt there were 15 cars.  Even if there were, if the neighbors don't care then so what?

Regarding some of the other comments, no you could never fit 1200 people in someone's house.  lol. . . . And no, you never take "donations" at a Bible study.  It's nothing more than a group of people sitting around "talking story" (as we say here).       

this doesn't hurt thigns on an individual scale.

however, on a macro schedule, if veryone on the block decided to do the same thing, it would be a major problem.

Plus, even if it was only 5 or 10 cars... that's some trashy shit to have to look at every friday morning, you know?  I don't want 15 people parking on my street every week, waking me up with their awkward driving (as you know church goers tend to be some shitty drivers at times, hence the term 'Sunday drivers').

I don't want 15 people parking next door and in front of my house.  Do you?  
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2009, 05:48:42 AM »

Most religious people are delusional idiots but they should be allowed to practise all the delusion and idiocy they feel like. Freedom of Stupidity I say.

A freedom which you exercise on a regular basis.
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