Author Topic: General George S. Patton  (Read 7296 times)

wordy

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2009, 11:20:42 AM »
He was kept on the leash by modern institutions - bureaucracy and multinational alliance.  Even modern patriotism put the brakes on him in the sense that modern soldiers fight for their nation, not their commander.  King, prime minister, president, etc, the nation is now seen as distinct from them.  If he had been operating in a capacity like that of a Roman consul, nothing would have stopped him from turning on the Russians like he wanted to, and the second half of the 20th century would have been very different. 

Yeah, we'dve lost. if he talked the allies into attacking the Russians then the Red Army would've conquered mainland Europe. Maybe they'd switch sides and instead of wanting to join the Far East campaign on our side joined on the axis side and help Japan out.(big if, depends on how deep the russo/japan scars ran at the time.)

Superboy Prime

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2009, 02:29:11 PM »
Patton was truly a man among men.

Mr Nobody

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2009, 04:12:43 PM »
A warrior-poet and philosopher king, or a war mongering gloryhound?


This looks like NASSER after loses the Mr O ;D

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2009, 04:19:59 PM »
Yeah, we'dve lost.

You sure?  In '45 we had nukes, the Ruskies didn't.   Plus I'd wager our industrial capacity was significantly greater, and was pretty well protected from attack (there was an ocean between us and the fighting, and we had a large navy, the russians didn't).
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GigantorX

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2009, 04:53:55 PM »
You sure?  In '45 we had nukes, the Ruskies didn't.   Plus I'd wager our industrial capacity was significantly greater, and was pretty well protected from attack (there was an ocean between us and the fighting, and we had a large navy, the russians didn't).

Agreed.

The Russians were just about at the end of the rope concerning manpower and industrial capacity. The West also had heavy long-range strategic bombers as well. Either way it would have bee very interesting to see how it would have played out.

polychronopolous

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2009, 05:40:24 PM »
Agreed.

The Russians were just about at the end of the rope concerning manpower and industrial capacity. The West also had heavy long-range strategic bombers as well. Either way it would have bee very interesting to see how it would have played out.

You could make an argument that, for a few short years after WW2, American's military dominance in relation to the rest of the world was at an all time high.


GigantorX

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2009, 05:46:51 PM »
You could make an argument that, for a few short years after WW2, American's military dominance in relation to the rest of the world was at an all time high.



And lets face it, the USSR was absolutely smashed from all those years of war. Think about it, 20 million dead, ravaged farm land and decimated industry from 2 scorched earth policies...one from the Russians while retreating East and one from the Germans while retreating West. Plus if there was a conflict that would mean no Lend-Lease, no truck, no equipment etc.

Camel Jockey

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2009, 05:50:32 PM »
The US should have held onto Japan and West Germany as 'colonia' type establishments just as the Romans did with certain lands. 

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2009, 05:59:09 PM »
We could have taken over the whole damn world.  And in retrospect, maybe we should have.
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Tapeworm

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2009, 07:58:08 PM »
And lets face it, the USSR was absolutely smashed from all those years of war. Think about it, 20 million dead, ravaged farm land and decimated industry from 2 scorched earth policies...one from the Russians while retreating East and one from the Germans while retreating West. Plus if there was a conflict that would mean no Lend-Lease, no truck, no equipment etc.

There was definitely a window of opportunity.  Why Patton wasn't allowed to exploit it, why an army in a position of advantage was ordered to simply pack up and head home is complicated.  The crux of the issue for me is: Can the people of a nation be trusted to make the right decisions for themselves?

It seems like Patton didn't believe in true victory, a final objective, or the end of war.  There is only further conquest.  If he had his way he probably never would have stopped.  On the other hand, it's not like there hasn't been another war since WWII.

wordy

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2009, 01:47:34 PM »
You sure?  In '45 we had nukes, the Ruskies didn't.   Plus I'd wager our industrial capacity was significantly greater, and was pretty well protected from attack (there was an ocean between us and the fighting, and we had a large navy, the russians didn't).

In 45 did the U.S have the capacity to deliver them onto any Russian City and how many nukes did you have?, what was the range of your bombers? Would a Nuclear attack have stopped the Reds, in that Stalin is responsible for the deaths of an obcene number of his own countrymen? I don't think our industrial capacity was any greater than the Russians, places like 'tankograd' was churning tanks out at a stupid rate. lets not forget they encircled the entire German army in Russia wiped it out then went on to capture Berlin.

Obviously I'dve been happy for the allies to win if it came to that but you can't dimiss the strength of the Russians in the later stages of the war.

The Showstoppa

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2009, 01:50:42 PM »
My dad knew a guy that worked under patton in ww2

he said patton was a serious crazy person that enjoyed killing.

Was he the one Patton slapped for having shellshock?

Jeffro

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2009, 01:55:33 PM »
Patton knew how to get shit done, you want men like him on your side during war.

nukkaready

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2009, 02:13:51 PM »
In 45 did the U.S have the capacity to deliver them onto any Russian City and how many nukes did you have?, what was the range of your bombers? Would a Nuclear attack have stopped the Reds, in that Stalin is responsible for the deaths of an obcene number of his own countrymen? I don't think our industrial capacity was any greater than the Russians, places like 'tankograd' was churning tanks out at a stupid rate. lets not forget they encircled the entire German army in Russia wiped it out then went on to capture Berlin.

Obviously I'dve been happy for the allies to win if it came to that but you can't dimiss the strength of the Russians in the later stages of the war.

oh brother... the Russians had little to no airforce left... the US would have had total air superiority... the US fought Germany and Japan at the same time... the Red Army would have stood little chance if Patton & Co. would have marched towards Moscow.

Stark

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2009, 02:15:46 PM »
both - he never had a problem sending thousands to their death

Stark

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2009, 02:19:59 PM »
oh brother... the Russians had little to no airforce left... the US would have had total air superiority... the US fought Germany and Japan at the same time... the Red Army would have stood little chance if Patton & Co. would have marched towards Moscow.

complete bollox

wordy

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2009, 02:33:58 PM »
oh brother... the Russians had little to no airforce left... the US would have had total air superiority... the US fought Germany and Japan at the same time... the Red Army would have stood little chance if Patton & Co. would have marched towards Moscow.

No.... the allies fought Germany & Japan Oh brother.... do you actually learn that you weren't the only ones fighting in WWII? Arrayed against the Japanese was Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand, India, China, + All the far east countries that Japan had annexed. also the Russians wanted to joni the the war against the Japanese.

If Patton & co would've marched towards Moscow exactly the same would've happened to us as what happened to the Axis forces.

nukkaready

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2009, 03:15:49 PM »
complete bollox

the war in the east was a ground war... neither side had any significant number of aircraft.. get your facts straight... Soviet Air power was a joke compared to US air power.

nukkaready

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2009, 03:19:03 PM »
No.... the allies fought Germany & Japan Oh brother.... do you actually learn that you weren't the only ones fighting in WWII? Arrayed against the Japanese was Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand, India, China, + All the far east countries that Japan had annexed. also the Russians wanted to joni the the war against the Japanese.

If Patton & co would've marched towards Moscow exactly the same would've happened to us as what happened to the Axis forces.

and what did those allies amount to.. nothing without US help. US kept everyone in business including the Reds. US aircraft would have blown the entire Red Army and their tanks to bits and pieces.

polychronopolous

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2009, 03:30:21 PM »
With Patton leading the United States they could have taken down the Russians with a couple tanks, a few baseball bats and plenty of Schlitz beer.

wordy

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2009, 09:35:50 AM »
and what did those allies amount to.. nothing without US help. US kept everyone in business including the Reds. US aircraft would have blown the entire Red Army and their tanks to bits and pieces.

And what would all the US help amount to if it wasn't for the Red army advancing across half their own country, most of Europe and capturing Berlin....Fuck all. And what a stupid statement about the USAAF blowing the entire Red Army to pieces. US aircraft carried out the stategic bombing on German cities, it was the RAF that provided Close Air support that would've attack tank formations.

Soul Crusher

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2009, 09:41:05 AM »
Theif.....

Asswipe.  The original GSP was a master of history, war, tactics, poetry, and has an amazing life's story. 

He was an amazing person in all respects and got a raw deal from the fag media.

Soul Crusher

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2009, 09:44:31 AM »
Competed in the 1912 Olympics as well.

The only reason he got 5th in the pentathalon was because in the pistol shooting they could not figure if he missed the target or put two bullets through the same hole since the grouping was so small.  He was also a great fencer, horseback rider, and was a real man.

as far as I am concerned - he is the true and real GSP!

GigantorX

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2009, 12:46:46 PM »
Lets remember that Soviet Forces were very dependent on U.S. aide as well. Money, food, supplies, trucks, parts the list goes on. If we were to come to blows at the end of WWII that aide would have been cut immediately.

Hereford

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Re: General George S. Patton
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2009, 01:29:14 PM »
With the exception of GX and 333386, a lot of you need to study the facts of history a little more.