Abortion doctor shot to death in church.

[Straw Man]

political correctness itself is an example...
LOL again you commit a major fallacy of the left arguing that everybody who is pro life is a religious nut job... argue from logic not from bias...

If you believe abortion to be murder then why would you be ok with it?

I'm against political correctness and pro honest expression of feelings

I don't believe abortion is murder

why do you think your beliefs trump my beliefs?

[tonymctones]

I didn't say that there weren't terrorists who weren't religious... I said there was no Athiest terrorists.

Im not sure i see the difference a person who isnt religous who performs terrorist acts is indeed a athiest terrorist?

how about the unabomber?

[tu_holmes]

Im not sure i see the difference a person who isnt religous who performs terrorist acts is indeed a athiest terrorist?

how about the unabomber?

The difference is that no one performs the terrorist act under the guise of it being done to promote atheistic right in the world... While the religous terrorist performs it under the guise of doing it to promote  the religious right. (and by right I mean "just" and good)

There is a huge difference there.

Teddy did it to promote Anarchy... Neither religious or atheistic.

[tonymctones]

I'm against political correctness and pro honest expression of feelings

I don't believe abortion is murder

why do you think your beliefs trump my beliefs?

I agree but now that you realize political correctness is what it is please dont think that the left doesnt push its views on ppl...

b/c I believe its murder and murder is against the law its not that my beliefs trump yours its that I believe the law trumps yours and i believe the supreme court got it wrong...im not telling you not to get an abortion as of now its your right and im sure if the supreme court rules which in all honesty i think it will sonner or later you will feel the same way i do.

[tu_holmes]

I agree but now that you realize political correctness is what it is please dont think that the left doesnt push its views on ppl...

b/c I believe its murder and murder is against the law its not that my beliefs trump yours its that I believe the law trumps yours and i believe the supreme court got it wrong...im not telling you not to get an abortion as of now its your right and im sure if the supreme court rules which in all honesty i think it will sonner or later you will feel the same way i do.

I don't agree with PC either, but I don't think you can call Political Correctness a Liberal thing. Many right wing groups believe in it as well.

None the less, I don't believe anyone should be able to keep you from speaking the truth about someone or something.

[tonymctones]

The difference is that no one performs the terrorist act under the guise of it being done to promote atheistic right in the world... While the religous terrorist performs it under the guise of doing it to promote  the religious right. (and by right I mean "just" and good)

There is a huge difference there.

Teddy did it to promote Anarchy... Neither religious or atheistic.

LOL again so there has never been attacks against a religious person or entity by a atheistic person or entity? thats what your saying? the harrasement that takes place on a daily basis on the religion board should give you an idea of the tolerance of some of your fellow atheist...

[tonymctones]

I don't agree with PC either, but I don't think you can call Political Correctness a Liberal thing. Many right wing groups believe in it as well.

None the less, I don't believe anyone should be able to keep you from speaking the truth about someone or something.

I agree however its just like there are plenty of what most would consider liberal groups who are pro life but pro life is deemed a conservative thing...fact is the majority of pro life advocates are conservative and the majority of political correctness advocates are liberal...

[tu_holmes]

LOL again so there has never been attacks against a religious person or entity by a atheistic person or entity? thats what your saying? the harrasement that takes place on a daily basis on the religion board should give you an idea of the tolerance of some of your fellow atheist...

No Tony... What I'm saying that you're not grasping is that no one does a terrorist act in the NAME of Athiesm... Sure athiests do bad shit... but no one ever gets up and says, "we're doing this to promote athiesm or an atheistic belief"

What I'm saying isn't that complex and you know I'm right.

I am not an Athiest so I don't understand why would say I am.

[tonymctones]

No Tony... What I'm saying that you're not grasping is that no one does a terrorist act in the NAME of Athiesm... Sure athiests do bad shit... but no one ever gets up and says, "we're doing this to promote athiesm or an atheistic belief"

What I'm saying isn't that complex and you know I'm right.

I am not an Athiest so I don't understand why would say I am.

sorry i should have phrased it better thats what i meant...The idea that atheist groups or ppl dont target religious groups simply b/c they are religious is not true...you have ppl pushing atheism and secularism right now you really think that there has been no acts violence?

 

[Straw Man]

I agree but now that you realize political correctness is what it is please dont think that the left doesnt push its views on ppl...

b/c I believe its murder and murder is against the law its not that my beliefs trump yours its that I believe the law trumps yours and i believe the supreme court got it wrong...im not telling you not to get an abortion as of now its your right and im sure if the supreme court rules which in all honesty i think it will sonner or later you will feel the same way i do.

what law are you talking about?

do live in the United States of America?

[tonymctones]

what law are you talking about?

do live in the United States of America?

the law that says you cant unjustifiable kill ppl...

[tu_holmes]

sorry i should have phrased it better thats what i meant...The idea that atheist groups or ppl dont target religious groups simply b/c they are religious is not true...you have ppl pushing atheism and secularism right now you really think that there has been no acts violence?

 

I haven't seen any... Have you? Please post some if you have and educate me... I'm saying that I have not been privy to any cases where violence was brought upon a religious group simply because that group was religous and the violent people didn't believe in religion.

Have you heard of that?

[Straw Man]

the law that says you cant unjustifiable kill ppl...

when does a "person" come into being?

in the eyes of the law corporations have more rights than a fetus

[tu_holmes]

the law that says you cant unjustifiable kill ppl...

According to the abortion laws, abortion isn't killing a person. So the law for abortion trumps the belief it's wrong.

[tonymctones]

I haven't seen any... Have you? Please post some if you have and educate me... I'm saying that I have not been privy to any cases where violence was brought upon a religious group simply because that group was religous and the violent people didn't believe in religion.

Have you heard of that?

ill look some up in the morning its about midnight here and i gotta get to bed but ill see if i can find some in the morning.

when does a "person" come into being?

in the eyes of the law corporations have more rights than a fetus

ahhh this is what this debate always comes back too...fact is neither side has the answer

According to the abortion laws, abortion isn't killing a person. So the law for abortion trumps the belief it's wrong.

No it doesnt trump the idea that its wrong it trumps the idea that its illegal theres a difference...sooner or later the law will be inturpreted in reverse and im sure you two will feel the way i do now...

good night folks...ill respond in the morning.

[tu_holmes]

ill look some up in the morning its about midnight here and i gotta get to bed but ill see if i can find some in the morning.
ahhh this is what this debate always comes back too...fact is neither side has the answer
No it doesnt trump the idea that its wrong it trumps the idea that its illegal theres a difference...sooner or later the law will be inturpreted in reverse and im sure you two will feel the way i do now...

good night folks...ill respond in the morning.

Looking forward to it.

Personally, if abortion gets switched... I don't see it being the same.

Before abortion, did you hear about churches getting blown up so that abortion could become legal? I don't think so.

I also don't think abortion laws will ever change... The world is changing and with it, the idea that abortion is even an issue anymore is changing.

[Straw Man]

ahhh this is what this debate always comes back too...fact is neither side has the answer

so your belief is no more or less valid than my belief??

that's pretty much what I've been saying all along

have your belief and apply it to yourself and I'll do the same thing

I won't impose my belief on you and vice versa

see how easy that is?

[24KT]

the law that says you cant unjustifiable kill ppl...

So how do you feel about the US invasion of Iraq?

[loco]

I haven't seen any... Have you? Please post some if you have and educate me... I'm saying that I have not been privy to any cases where violence was brought upon a religious group simply because that group was religous and the violent people didn't believe in religion.

Have you heard of that?

"Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in the near-extinction of the Russian Orthodox Church: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.

Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed."

Alexander N. Yakovlev (2002). A Century of Violence in Soviet Russia. Yale University Press. pp. 165.
http://books.google.com/books?visbn=0300103220&id=ChRk43tVxTwC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&ots=ICIxg28Jud&dq=a+century+of+violence+in+soviet+russia+the+Russian+Orthodox+clergy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=C9k9Hr7Vn222WCHf_1iSJOHVsgo

Richard Pipes (2001). Communism: A History. Modern Library Chronicles. pp. 66.

[240 is Back]

LOL... the shooter probably supported the war in iraq and sanctions that killed lots of babies

[Hedgehog]

Apparently the suspect is a right-wing religious nutjob who's been harassing abortion clinics for years.
What I found interesting is that many anti-abortion activists apparently thinks 'Tiller had it coming' or 'the murderer did something good'.

[BM OUT]

LOL... the shooter probably supported the war in iraq and sanctions that killed lots of babies

I doubt it.The guy DESPISED the government!!!To Hegdehog,Tiller DID have it coming,now he can rot in hell.Too bad it didnt take a lot longer for him to die.I would have loved to have seen him suffer a MUCH more painful death.

[Hedgehog]

I would have loved to have seen him suffer a MUCH more painful death.

What would be the point of that?

[240 is Back]

I doubt it.The guy DESPISED the government!!!To Hegdehog,Tiller DID have it coming,now he can rot in hell.Too bad it didnt take a lot longer for him to die.I would have loved to have seen him suffer a MUCH more painful death.

he was a member of a righ-wing, anti-govt group.

i know code pink and moveon.org get all sorts of hate.  but their members aren't out capping people.

[BM OUT]

What would be the point of that?

To teach him and others like him that stabbing a living baby in the head with scissors and suckimg its brains out is torture!!!You libs cry and bitch and moan about torture in Gitmo but dont blink an eye when a maniac like Tiller does 1 million times worse!!!