Abortion doctor shot to death in church.

[Fury]

Funny how bible thumpers like Mimnaugh have no problem wishing horrifying deaths on their fellow men and Americans. Love the hypocrisy.  

[BM OUT]

Funny how bible thumpers like Mimnaugh have no problem wishing horrifying deaths on their fellow men and Americans. Love the hypocrisy.  

Hey jackoff,I hate the Bible,religion,that big Jew in the sky!!Is that good enough for you.I wish after all the abortion doctors were offed,they would start capping Catholic Priests.You dont have a fucking clue of what your talking about.Stick to what and who you know.

[Fury]

It's already a travesty that you've managed to pass your 85 IQ genes on to the next generation. Poster boy for the forced sterilization of all IQs under 120.

[Hedgehog]

To teach him and others like him that stabbing a living baby in the head with scissors and suckimg its brains out is torture!!!You libs cry and bitch and moan about torture in Gitmo but dont blink an eye when a maniac like Tiller does 1 million times worse!!!

In your opinion, what will be the effects of this killing as far as the abortion issue?

[BM OUT]

In your opinion, what will be the effects of this killing as far as the abortion issue?

It depends on how many motre doctors get blasted.I notice not too mant are performing partial birth abortions as they are scared of the violence.After this m,more will think twice.

[BM OUT]

It's already a travesty that you've managed to pass your 85 IQ genes on to the next generation. Poster boy for the forced sterilization of all IQs under 120.

Yeah,your the one that assumes Im a Bible thumper and Im stupid!!By the way,we wont ever have to worry about you having a kid and passing on your brilliant mind,there isnt a women dumb enough or ugly enough to fuck you.

[tu_holmes]

"Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in the near-extinction of the Russian Orthodox Church: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937–1938.

Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed."

Alexander N. Yakovlev (2002). A Century of Violence in Soviet Russia. Yale University Press. pp. 165.
http://books.google.com/books?visbn=0300103220&id=ChRk43tVxTwC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&ots=ICIxg28Jud&dq=a+century+of+violence+in+soviet+russia+the+Russian+Orthodox+clergy&ie=ISO-8859-1&sig=C9k9Hr7Vn222WCHf_1iSJOHVsgo

Richard Pipes (2001). Communism: A History. Modern Library Chronicles. pp. 66.

Loco... You missed the point entirely.

I already excluded Stalin and Hitler due to it being about power control... They still didn't do it in the "name" of Atheism.

They did it in the name of keeping their control over people.

[loco]

Loco... You missed the point entirely.

I already excluded Stalin and Hitler due to it being about power control... They still didn't do it in the "name" of Atheism.

They did it in the name of keeping their control over people.

So what?  They used secular ideas such as Nationalism to mind control their peons and get them to carry out the murders for them.

Everything that you blame religion for is pretty much about power and control too, leaders using religion to maintain control and to get other people to carry out their wishes. 

That is why you don't see Muslim leaders blowing themselves up.  They use Islam to get their Muslim peons to do it for them.

[tu_holmes]

So what?  They used secular ideas such as Nationalism to mind control their peons and get them to carry out the murders for them.

Everything that you blame religion for is pretty much about power and control too, leaders using religion to maintain control and to get other people to carry out their wishes. 

That is why you don't see Muslim leaders blowing themselves up.  They use Islam to get their Muslim peons to do it for them.

I understand, but I'm not blaming religion for anything and I see what you're saying, but my point is that philosophically, atheism isn't a cause for terrorism, while religion can be.

There's a difference.

[loco]

I understand, but I'm not blaming religion for anything and I see what you're saying, but my point is that philosophically, atheism isn't a cause for terrorism, while religion can be.

There's a difference.

"Scientists also often claim that religion rarely inculcates virtue. The history of religion is, after all, the history of bloodshed. (It is a law of nature that scientists must bring up the Crusades within five minutes of mention of religion.) In any case, the argument goes, atheists are as ethical as any believer, and religion needn’t be kept about for purely moral reasons. But Gould again argues that this claim misses the historical fact that the Church was a secular and not merely religious institution. When the Church was a powerful state, it, not surprisingly, acted like a powerful state. It is also worth noting (and Gould doesn’t) that when avowedly atheist governments called the shots their ethical track record was less than awe-inspiring. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot are not, so far as I know, in line for sainthood. The point isn’t that godless commies are bad. The point is that it is dishonest to pretend that the Crusades count against theism but that Stalin doesn’t count against atheism."   

-  H. Allen Orr

Gould on God Can religion and science be happily reconciled? in the Boston Review
http://bostonreview.net/BR24.5/orr.html

[tu_holmes]

"Scientists also often claim that religion rarely inculcates virtue. The history of religion is, after all, the history of bloodshed. (It is a law of nature that scientists must bring up the Crusades within five minutes of mention of religion.) In any case, the argument goes, atheists are as ethical as any believer, and religion needn’t be kept about for purely moral reasons. But Gould again argues that this claim misses the historical fact that the Church was a secular and not merely religious institution. When the Church was a powerful state, it, not surprisingly, acted like a powerful state. It is also worth noting (and Gould doesn’t) that when avowedly atheist governments called the shots their ethical track record was less than awe-inspiring. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot are not, so far as I know, in line for sainthood. The point isn’t that godless commies are bad. The point is that it is dishonest to pretend that the Crusades count against theism but that Stalin doesn’t count against atheism."  

-  H. Allen Orr

Gould on God Can religion and science be happily reconciled? in the Boston Review
http://bostonreview.net/BR24.5/orr.html

I disagree... That's just another opinion.

[loco]

I disagree... That's just another opinion.

But it is a non-biased, intelligent opinion, as Allen Orr is an evolutionary geneticist and he is not religious.

[tu_holmes]

But it is a non-biased, intelligent opinion, as Allen Orr is an evolutionary geneticist and he is not religious.

Agreed... That's one guy though and I don't really agree with his statement.

[loco]

Agreed... That's one guy though and I don't really agree with his statement.

I really did not expect you to agree with him.

"The point is that it is dishonest to pretend that the Crusades count against theism but that Stalin doesn’t count against atheism."   -  H. Allen Orr

[tu_holmes]

I really did not expect you to agree with him.

"The point is that it is dishonest to pretend that the Crusades count against theism but that Stalin doesn’t count against atheism."   -  H. Allen Orr

I don't agree with that either... The crusades were FOR religion. Stalin was FOR Stalin, no group or entity... Just a person.

[blacken700]

heres fox news inciting nutjobs to kill

[loco]

I don't agree with that either... The crusades were FOR religion. Stalin was FOR Stalin, no group or entity... Just a person.

"But Gould again argues that this claim misses the historical fact that the Church was a secular and not merely religious institution. When the Church was a powerful state, it, not surprisingly, acted like a powerful state." - H. Allen Orr

Gould on God Can religion and science be happily reconciled? in the Boston Review
http://bostonreview.net/BR24.5/orr.html

[tu_holmes]

"But Gould again argues that this claim misses the historical fact that the Church was a secular and not merely religious institution. When the Church was a powerful state, it, not surprisingly, acted like a powerful state." - H. Allen Orr

Gould on God Can religion and science be happily reconciled? in the Boston Review
http://bostonreview.net/BR24.5/orr.html

Perhaps, but what's that got to do with nut jobs today?

Since it's 2009 and no acts of violence in civilized societies are performed due to atheistic beliefs, yet they are performed due to religious beliefs.

[loco]

Perhaps, but what's that got to do with nut jobs today?

Since it's 2009 and no acts of violence in civilized societies are performed due to atheistic beliefs, yet they are performed due to religious beliefs.

This is one nut job who murdered only one person.  Stalin, an atheist, murdered thousands of religious people only because they were not atheists, and that was only less than 80 years ago.

A murderous nut job is a murderous nut job, with or without religion:

Man kills eight at Finnish school

BBC NEWS
Wednesday, 7 November 2007

At least eight people were killed when an 18-year-old gunman opened fire at a school in Finland Wednesday, according to Finnish police...

...In the rambling text posted on the site, Auvinen said that he is "a cynical existentialist, anti-human humanist, anti-social social-Darwinist, realistic idealist and god-like atheist.

"I am prepared to fight and die for my cause," he wrote. "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."...

...Sipila said that Finland, which has a population of about five million, has around two million firearms, although gun laws are tough. "We do not know where he got it from," he said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm

[tonymctones]

good job loco, i see that the task set forth before me last night was completed while i was gone...always very nice 

[tu_holmes]

This is one nut job who murdered only one person.  Stalin, an atheist, murdered thousands of religious people only because they were not atheists, and that was only less than 80 years ago.

A murderous nut job is a murderous nut job, with or without religion:

Man kills eight at Finnish school

BBC NEWS
Wednesday, 7 November 2007

At least eight people were killed when an 18-year-old gunman opened fire at a school in Finland Wednesday, according to Finnish police...

...In the rambling text posted on the site, Auvinen said that he is "a cynical existentialist, anti-human humanist, anti-social social-Darwinist, realistic idealist and god-like atheist.

"I am prepared to fight and die for my cause," he wrote. "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."...

...Sipila said that Finland, which has a population of about five million, has around two million firearms, although gun laws are tough. "We do not know where he got it from," he said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm

I never said a nut wasn't a nut... but this guy did not do it to promote atheism.

Do you not understand what I'm saying?

Stalin didn't do it because they weren't Atheists... He did it because they didn't worship his power over their god. Not the same thing.

[tu_holmes]

good job loco, i see that the task set forth before me last night was completed while i was gone...always very nice 

Not in the least did he. Shame you guys don't understand what I'm saying... I suppose you never will.

[tonymctones]

Looking forward to it.

Personally, if abortion gets switched... I don't see it being the same.

Before abortion, did you hear about churches getting blown up so that abortion could become legal? I don't think so.

I also don't think abortion laws will ever change... The world is changing and with it, the idea that abortion is even an issue anymore is changing.

Iono about that to be perfectly honest...i think that society is beginning to realize that the vast majority of abortions are done so to avoid taking responsible for your actions and not for health reasons. I think sooner or later especially as birth control becomes easier to use and obtain for men and women that abortions will be phased out...seriously we know what causes pregnancy you dont get accidental pregnancy rates over what .01%? This means that these jack asses intentionally had sex knowing that they might concieve a child and did it anyway sooner or later the decision will be overturned...either that or sooner or later men will have the right to not pay child support...

[tonymctones]

so your belief is no more or less valid than my belief??

that's pretty much what I've been saying all along

have your belief and apply it to yourself and I'll do the same thing

I won't impose my belief on you and vice versa

see how easy that is?

yes and no ive had this conversation with you more then once straw i actually have some logical basis for my beliefs where as you have never given any for yours...

life could begin when electrical activity starts in the brain as death is technically when electrical activity stops.

Life could begin at conception as this is when the process of life begins...

when do you believe life begins and why?

[tu_holmes]

Iono about that to be perfectly honest...i think that society is beginning to realize that the vast majority of abortions are done so to avoid taking responsible for your actions and not for health reasons. I think sooner or later especially as birth control becomes easier to use and obtain for men and women that abortions will be phased out...seriously we know what causes pregnancy you dont get accidental pregnancy rates over what .01%? This means that these jack asses intentionally had sex knowing that they might concieve a child and did it anyway sooner or later the decision will be overturned...either that or sooner or later men will have the right to not pay child support...

Therein is the thing... If a guy doesn't have to pay child support, abortions will increase. Guaranteed.

I don't think it will be overturned... It's like women having the right to vote, or black people not having to ride in the back of the bus... As society sees these things as more of a "the way things are", I just don't think the shift will move back.

I mean, anything can always happen of course, but currently, society is moving towards being more OK with abortion than against it.