Lat pulldowns

[ozman]

behind the neck ?

anyone do these ?

[Meso_z]

behind the neck ?

anyone do these ?

Yes they are a great movement.

Just DONT do this with heavy weight, light to moderate weight and sqeeze.

[leonp1981]

Do them towards the end of your workout, when you've fully warmed up and stretched the muscles, and you don't have to use excessive weight.  Same as for behind the neck presses.

[Bobby]

sit up straight and pull the bar/grip straight down

or lean back and pull towards your chest

 

Discuss

[leonp1981]

sit up straight and pull the bar/grip straight down

or lean back and pull towards your chest

 

Discuss

Bit of both really, I think it's best to arch your back and pull down to your upper chest.  Leaning your whole torso back as you pull could lead to a lower back injury. 

[allnatural]

I know a guy in my gym that has a huge looking back. I asked him what he does for his lats and he does the following:

Pull-ups or pull downs everyday 4 sets till failure. No pull-ups or pull-down on back day.

What do you think about that? Is it too much?

[leonp1981]

I know a guy in my gym that has a huge looking back. I asked him what he does for his lats and he does the following:

Pull-ups or pull downs everyday 4 sets till failure. No pull-ups or pull-down on back day.

What do you think about that? Is it too much?

When you say every day, is that 6 days a week, or only non-back workout days?  If he only works out 3 days a week, with one being back day, that would mean doing his 4 sets only twice a week, which would be fine.

[allnatural]

When you say every day, is that 6 days a week, or only non-back workout days?  If he only works out 3 days a week, with one being back day, that would mean doing his 4 sets only twice a week, which would be fine.

Sorry for a bad explanation. He is very strict with his diet and workouts. He comes to the gym about 5-6 times a week. So I'm pretty sure that he ment that he does them on non workout days.

Guy is thick and ripped. No joke.

[dyslexic]

I remember Victor Martinez saying something like that... every morning doing chins or pullups... way before he became a Pro.

[pumpster]

What that means is that the guy isn't informed. Vic no longer does them every day and the guy at your gym will never know that he'd have at least the same result by training smarter. They both had good development despite of, not because of, everyday training. A good work ethic and genetics go a long way even when not training in the most effective fashion.

It reminds me of those who don't train to failure-in both cases training smarter and more effectively would maximize whatever potential's there, even though results will be there and can be deceiving when not training in the most optimal ways.

[dyslexic]

What that means is that the guy isn't informed. Vic no longer does them every day and the guy at your gym will never know that he'd have at least the same result by training smarter. They both had good development despite of, not because of, everyday training. A good work ethic and genetics go a long way even when not training in the most effective fashion.

It reminds me of those who don't train to failure-in both cases training smarter and more effectively would maximize whatever potential's there, even though results will be there and can be deceiving when not training in the most optimal ways.

It is amazing when you see how many scientific studies stand on both sides of the fence when it comes to "training to failure". Personally, I like to do about once a week. I am talking total failure in a three portions of the rep; 1) the concentric (easily done to failure) 2) the isometric/static (just can't hold it anymore) 3) the lowering phase (can't do it under control anymore)


Pretty hard to fully recover from. Gotta get lotsa food and sleep.

[Deicide]

I only do pullups/chinups, don't do lat pulldowns.

[pumpster]

I only do pullups/chinups, don't do lat pulldowns.

They're both effective if done properly, both can hammer the lats equally well. The thing about pulldowns is that it's far easier to cheat and remove alot of the effectiveness, which can create the impression they're not as good.

Do them heavy-close to bodyweight like chins. I find that leaning back ruins the benefit, but that cheating at the end is effective, just as it might to use momentum on chins at the end. There are also more options with pulldowns in terms of grips, angles, etc.

[jpm101]

Actually leaning back and away from the lat bar, during the pull down motion, brings into action more lat response. Works extremely well when doing pull-up/chins and is akin to the Gironda method of chinning. Where the higher you rose up the more you tried to distance yourself from the bar. Great lat pump this way.

Chins behind the neck, actually touching the nap of the neck, is also great for the rear delts, upper back/lats. Needs a getting use to, but worth the time, when flexibility is gained. Of course add weight after a while. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

Actually leaning back and away from the lat bar, during the pull down motion, brings into action more lat response.

Reread what's posted. I was quite clear in saying that leaning back didn't work well for pulldowns, never said that about chins.

Leaning back on chins is not as much of a compromise to lats as when done on pulldowns, which comes back to my point that pulldowns are just as good but easier to devalue with bad form.

Even with chins what has been missed is that the Gironda idea is to not to lean the entire torso back. Rather, it's to keep the torso somewhat upright and then to keep the chest forward and shoulders back, that's the main thing not the leaning aspect. This is consistent with using hands as hooks and isolating the lats better. With chest and lat torso compound work the idea is to include little things of nuance, so as to make what are general exercises for several muscles into more isolative movements for chest and lats.

[WOOO]

behind the neck ?

anyone do these ?

yup, second to last movement on back day for years. i usuallly pull down to about the bump in the back of the head and ensure i get a good contraction

[jpm101]

Gironda stressed  arching the back while pulling way from the bar when using a lat bar (floating) or  chin bar(stable). The whole idea was to touch the upper to mid chest, each rep, to the lat or chin bar. Brought in much more lat involvement (leaning back and away will do this). Which added up to more width and mass to the lats/upper back. Idea was to try and mimic a BB row movement as much as possible, with the pulldown/chin. Also affects the read delts better.

Any doubt about that, than do a search of "Gironda chin/pulldown" or whatever you want. Might find that most BB'er lean quite aways back when doing pulldowns and even cable floor rows. With chins, not so much but it would be to their advantage to do so. Though I have seen 220-250 added for quarter to half rep chin produce some impressive backs. Good Luck.

Side Bar: though Don Holworth was famous for outstanding width and delt development, his lat's could be almost as impressive. Gironda chins were used by him as a staple.

[Get Rowdy]

Dorian Yates advocates doing all back movements with an arched back to better involve the lats, and recently I saw pics of Phil Heath training back and during pullups he leans back/arches his back.  I reckon this works well for pullups, however I've never gone to the extreme of touching my sternum to the bar like Gironda.

Usually kept pretty upright on pulldowns though, unless trying to get out some extra reps at the end of a set.

[pumpster]

Usually kept pretty upright on pulldowns though, unless trying to get out some extra reps at the end of a set.

Thought about this while doing pulldowns today and ya at some point you have to move the back to get those tough reps i think it's just better to do it to get the weight moving but not to stay with the back back the entire time, it diminishes the exercise a lot.