Poll: should I stop (pretending to be) lifting weights and just give up?

[Deicide]

Das Problem ist dass die meisten Leute von BB-Foren (einschließlich du anscheinend) so übersättigt sind mit Bildern von völlig künstlichen, bis unter die Schädeldecke vollgespritzen Körpern dass sie jeglichen Realitätsbezug verloren haben. Für dich sind die Top 6 vom Olympia-LineUp normale Menschen und jeder Andere ne Tiny Tit.

Rationell betrachtet könntest du dich mal im Schwimmbad umsehen wieviele Leute in Daniel Craigs Alter (40+) so einen Körper haben.

Wenn du wüsstest wer aller stofft.....

Ist schon klar. Ich hab so viele Typen gesehen, die ganz krass alles moegliche in sich geballert haben, ohne dass sie so 'ausehen' wuerden. Stoff ist kein Wundermittel, obwohl viele Leute das glauben. Du brauchst hartes Training, gute Ernaehrung, um wirklichen Nutzen daraus zu ziehen.....

[affeman]

Ist schon klar. Ich hab so viele Typen gesehen, die ganz krass alles moegliche in sich geballert haben, ohne dass sie so 'ausehen' wuerden. Stoff ist kein Wundermittel, obwohl viele Leute das glauben. Du brauchst hartes Training, gute Ernaehrung, um wirklichen Nutzen daraus zu ziehen.....

What about the Genetics?

[wavelength]

You can build muscle on a cut and you also can lose fat in a bulk.

Agreed.

For the first, cardio would be a problem i would say, for the second cardio is a good help.

I would have to see hard evidence for the second claim.

[Tapeworm]

You could lose muscle and gain fat at the same time by eating badly and not exercising.  Stands to reason you can do the opposite.

Eat right and exercise and you really can't lose.  You'll never look like a professional bodybuilder but you'll look better than everyone who is lazy and eats crap, and that's most people.

[MCWAY]

I want to lean out and slowly have been in fact. I want to see what I look like at 10% so that is my goal. I work out 3x a week and use HST because I have always had the best progress and strength maintenance and gains from it.

Today for example I did:

Dumbbell shoulder press x2
Weighted Pullups x2
Dumbbell chest press x2
Seated curls x2
Weighted Dips x2
Deadlifts x2
Bulgarian Split Squat x2
Weighted Crunches x2
Calf raises on stairs with extra weight x2

You’re still missing a few items, namely your current bodyfat level, at 176 lb., your current dietary regime, and height.

[Deicide]

You’re still missing a few items, namely your current bodyfat level, at 176 lb., your current dietary regime, and height.

I guess I am 20%....

[Vorkosigan]

I want to lean out and slowly have been in fact. I want to see what I look like at 10% so that is my goal. I work out 3x a week and use HST because I have always had the best progress and strength maintenance and gains from it.

Today for example I did:

Dumbbell shoulder press x2
Weighted Pullups x2
Dumbbell chest press x2
Seated curls x2
Weighted Dips x2
Deadlifts x2
Bulgarian Split Squat x2
Weighted Crunches x2
Calf raises on stairs with extra weight x2

That should be one of the problems you have. You need to rethink your training. Don't take offense but usually its for beginners

[Deicide]

That should be one of the problems you have. You need to rethink your training. Don't take offense but usually its for beginners

How so? Please explain more.

[d0nny2600]

I want to lean out and slowly have been in fact. I want to see what I look like at 10% so that is my goal. I work out 3x a week and use HST because I have always had the best progress and strength maintenance and gains from it.

Today for example I did:

Dumbbell shoulder press x2
Weighted Pullups x2
Dumbbell chest press x2
Seated curls x2
Weighted Dips x2
Deadlifts x2
Bulgarian Split Squat x2
Weighted Crunches x2
Calf raises on stairs with extra weight x2

No Flame - I really don't think this program is going to be effective. I can't see how anyone can put max effort into shoulder pressing, pullups, bench pressing, deadlifts and squats etc in one workout. You have got to be using small weights on most of these.

[Deicide]

No Flame - I really don't think this program is going to be effective. I can't see how anyone can put max effort into shoulder pressing, pullups, bench pressing, deadlifts and squats etc in one workout. You have got to be using small weights on most of these.

No, very heavy depending on the week. 15/12/9/6

[d0nny2600]

No, very heavy depending on the week. 15/12/9/6

Ok If you can bust out max weights on shoulder press and go max out on bench, deadlift and squat in one session then you sir are a genetic freak.

Team Genetic Freak approved.

[io856]

No Flame - I really don't think this program is going to be effective. I can't see how anyone can put max effort into shoulder pressing, pullups, bench pressing, deadlifts and squats etc in one workout. You have got to be using small weights on most of these.

haha of course you can... I wouldn't put squats and deadlifts in the same workout though

[d0nny2600]

haha of course you can... I wouldn't put squats and deadlifts in the same workout though

I cant see how anyone can possibly put maximum effort into several compound movements in one workout.  A few yes, but weighted chins, weighted dips, bench pressing, shoulder pressing, deadlifting, squats etc all in one routine = not possible.

[drkaje]

[Tre]

LOL @ Don't give up, don't ever give up!

[Tre]

I want to lean out and slowly have been in fact. I want to see what I look like at 10% so that is my goal. I work out 3x a week and use HST because I have always had the best progress and strength maintenance and gains from it.

Today for example I did:

Dumbbell shoulder press x2
Weighted Pullups x2
Dumbbell chest press x2
Seated curls x2
Weighted Dips x2
Deadlifts x2
Bulgarian Split Squat x2
Weighted Crunches x2
Calf raises on stairs with extra weight x2

Agreed with those who have said this is a terrible routine.  Even though the sets on each exercise are few, you're limiting your lifting capacity by attempting so many compound movements in a single workout routine. 

Why not try a more conventional lifting protocol for 2-3 months and see what happens with that?  Not having seen your body type, I cannot suggest anything specific you could use to achieve your goals, but for a general program, the advice you've gotten on GetBig is spot-on - if you're doing back, do back...if you're doing chest, do chest...if you're doing legs, do legs.

Assuming one is already somewhat healthy, low-to-moderate intensity whole-body routines like yours are generally for women and older people who are just looking to maintain what they've got in terms of LBM. 

You can still work out 3x/week, hitting each bodypart once per week.  Since you're looking to trim fat, simply do cardio on 3 of your non-gym days.  You could change your diet up a bit and go 30/50/20 (carbs-proteins-fats). 

Every 2nd or 3rd workout for me is a light one where I really concentrate on each muscle being worked...I still stress and exhaust the muscle without putting unnecessary strain on my joints and connective tissues like I do on my heavy lifting days.  A person could train that way for several months and significantly change his body composition, but I'm a bit of an ego lifter who likes seeing the numbers get bigger every week or so. 

I know we're all individuals, but there's a reason why things considered tried and true really are tried and true.

[Eisenherz]

I used to split up my Heavy compounds into different days, Squat day/deadlift on back day/ shoulder press and bench on chest.

Now I do
Squats, DL, bench press, shoulder press, all one the same fookin day brah, and I havnt had any negative effects from it.

But then again, instead of doing multiple sets of each exercise as I did before on the separate days, I now only do one set of each.
I reduced my training time from 3.40 hours a week to like 1 hour  training a week  (inlcuding warm ups) in the gym.

Therefore I think Deicides program is fine but I would reduce the sets, and allow about 5 mins rest between the same muscle groups before doing another set.

[DK II]

Agreed with those who have said this is a terrible routine.  Even though the sets on each exercise are few, you're limiting your lifting capacity by attempting so many compound movements in a single workout routine. 

Why not try a more conventional lifting protocol for 2-3 months and see what happens with that?  Not having seen your body type, I cannot suggest anything specific you could use to achieve your goals, but for a general program, the advice you've gotten on GetBig is spot-on - if you're doing back, do back...if you're doing chest, do chest...if you're doing legs, do legs.

Assuming one is already somewhat healthy, low-to-moderate intensity whole-body routines like yours are generally for women and older people who are just looking to maintain what they've got in terms of LBM. 

You can still work out 3x/week, hitting each bodypart once per week.  Since you're looking to trim fat, simply do cardio on 3 of your non-gym days.  You could change your diet up a bit and go 30/50/20 (carbs-proteins-fats). 

Every 2nd or 3rd workout for me is a light one where I really concentrate on each muscle being worked...I still stress and exhaust the muscle without putting unnecessary strain on my joints and connective tissues like I do on my heavy lifting days.  A person could train that way for several months and significantly change his body composition, but I'm a bit of an ego lifter who likes seeing the numbers get bigger every week or so. 

I know we're all individuals, but there's a reason why things considered tried and true really are tried and true.

solid advice here.

Seriously, we have so many good people on this board, i think there are a few that would be able to come up with a training and diet plan for Deicide.

[Deicide]

Agreed with those who have said this is a terrible routine.  Even though the sets on each exercise are few, you're limiting your lifting capacity by attempting so many compound movements in a single workout routine. 

Why not try a more conventional lifting protocol for 2-3 months and see what happens with that?  Not having seen your body type, I cannot suggest anything specific you could use to achieve your goals, but for a general program, the advice you've gotten on GetBig is spot-on - if you're doing back, do back...if you're doing chest, do chest...if you're doing legs, do legs.

Assuming one is already somewhat healthy, low-to-moderate intensity whole-body routines like yours are generally for women and older people who are just looking to maintain what they've got in terms of LBM. 

You can still work out 3x/week, hitting each bodypart once per week.  Since you're looking to trim fat, simply do cardio on 3 of your non-gym days.  You could change your diet up a bit and go 30/50/20 (carbs-proteins-fats). 

Every 2nd or 3rd workout for me is a light one where I really concentrate on each muscle being worked...I still stress and exhaust the muscle without putting unnecessary strain on my joints and connective tissues like I do on my heavy lifting days.  A person could train that way for several months and significantly change his body composition, but I'm a bit of an ego lifter who likes seeing the numbers get bigger every week or so. 

I know we're all individuals, but there's a reason why things considered tried and true really are tried and true.

I really appreciate the advice but believe it or not my strength has gone up on this more than it ever did on splits. I have done both in the past but I usually return to HST.    Check out what it says:

 
Hypertrophy-Specific Training™ arose out of the research looking at both the stimuli and mechanisms for muscle cell hypertrophy. Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST) is based on physiological principles of hypertrophy first discovered in the laboratory. These principles were then organized into a "method" of mechanically loading the muscle to induce hypertrophy. Of course, translating these principles into applicable methods (sets & reps & schedules) brings in some possibility of error. As the science continues to explore the exact mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy, this error will be whittled away.
I didn't start out knowing how muscles grew. After all, it is a process that cannot be observed with the naked eye. In the beginning I simply did what others were doing. Then, I began reading muscle magazines and buying books. Still, I wasn't able to achieve the level of muscularity I saw so prominently displayed in the magazines.

For about 10 years I trained with all the popular training styles. I made decent progress in the beginning but as time went by, I seldom saw changes in the mirror, at least not any I could get anyone else to notice. But I continued to pursue the art.

As I entered college and graduate school, I finally had access to real research that was only just then beginning to take form. The interest in muscle growth is fairly new in academic circles. As I began to explore the research, it became clear to me that the routines and traditions I was exposed to as a bodybuilder, were NOT based on physiological principles on a cellular level.

It was a "fantastic voyage" compared to the European inspired global view of training. At the microscopic level scientists were talking about things like "myogenic stem cells", "growth-factors", "mechanical loading", "synergistic ablation", "smeared Z-lines", "MAPk/ERK" and many other things hidden to the naked eye. All of these things were left out of the equation of traditional training routines.

As hypertrophy-specific research progressed in specificity it was clear that traditional training routines had stumbled across many important principles of load induced muscle hypertrophy, but because of their limited perspective (volume and intensity) they failed to capitalize on some critical truths exposed by research at the cellular level.

The principles of hypertrophy that HST is based on are as follows (not an exhaustive list):


 
1) Mechanical Load
Mechanical Load is necessary to induce muscle hypertrophy. This mechanism involves but isn't limited to, MAPk/ERK, satellite cells, growth factors, calcium, and number of other fairly understood factors. It is incorrect to say "we don't know how muscle grows in response to training". The whole point of the HST book is not to discuss HST, but to present the body of research explaining how hypertrophy occurs. Then HST becomes a relatively obvious conclusion if your goal is hypertrophy. 
2) Acute vs. Chronic Stimuli
In order for the loading to result in significant hypertrophy, the stimulus must be applied with sufficient frequency to create a new "environment", as opposed to seemingly random and acute assaults on the mechanical integrity of the tissue. The downside of taking a week of rest every time you load a muscle is that many of the acute responses to training like increased protein synthesis, prostaglandins, IGF-1 levels, and mRNA levels all return to normal in about 36 hours. So, you spend 2 days growing and half a week in a semi-anticatabolic state returning to normal (some people call this recovery), when research shows us that recovery can take place unabated even if a the muscle is loaded again in 48 hours. So true anabolism from loading only lasts 2 days at best once the load is removed. The rest of the time you are simply balancing nitrogen retention without adding to it.

3) Progressive Load
Over time, the tissue adapts and becomes resistant to the damaging effects of mechanical load. This adaptation (resistance to the stimulus) can happen in as little as 48 hours (Repeated Bout Effect or Rapid Training Effect). As this happens, hypertrophy will stop, though neural and metabolic adaptations can and may continue. As opposed to hypertrophy, the foundation for the development of strength is neuromuscular in nature. Increases in strength from resistance exercise have been attributed to several neural adaptations including altered recruitment patterns, rate coding, motor unit synchronization, reflex potentiation, prime mover antagonist activity, and prime mover agonist activity. So, aside from incremental changes in the number of contractile filaments (hypertrophy), voluntary force production (i.e. strength) is largely a matter of "activating" motor units.

4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning). The muscle is sensitive not only to the absolute load, but also to the change in load (up or down). Therefore, you can get a hypertrophic effect from increasing the load from a previous load, even if the absolute load is not maximum, assuming conditioning (resistance to exercise induced micro-damage) is not to extensive. There is a limit to the number of increments you can add to increase the load. You simply reach your maximum voluntary strength eventually. This is why Strategic Deconditioning is required for continued growth once growth has stopped (all things remaining equal).
 

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

[webcake]

I trained shoulders today. I am slowly getting leaner. I shall overcome my genetic limitations.......

[DK II]

I trained shoulders today. I am slowly getting leaner. I shall overcome my genetic limitations.......

Keep it up, webcke!

[webcake]

Keep it up, webcke!

Thankyou my aryan bastard with muscles.

Placing too much emphasis on genetics = destined to fail. Even if genetics = everything.

[io856]

genetics = irrelevant to personal improvement

[DK II]

genetics = irrelevant to personal improvement

true. Genetics can be overcome, in fact a lot of the genes in your body are altered when you change your habits.

Some genes are shut down, some become active.

[Deicide]

Thankyou my aryan bastard with muscles.

Placing too much emphasis on genetics = destined to fail. Even if genetics = everything.

Wise words young one.

I agree. I honestly believe that the majority of success is determined by genetics but since you can't change them at all you have to make the best of it and improve what you can.