Poll: should I stop (pretending to be) lifting weights and just give up?

[DK II]

If you replace only the protein from solid meals with the protein from shakes, there is absolutely no difference. I think you compare two scenarious were more variables are changed at once.

Yes, but you cannot replace only the protein. It's impossible. FULL foods offer a much better approach than protein alone, i see the convenience issue, but taking a meal only consisting of protein is not good if you do it on a regular basis and for half of your meals.


If Deicide would replace two of his daily shakes with food, he'd have much less problems.

[MCWAY]

I totally agree here with you, but even in that case, i tend to mix plain yoghurt with fruits, nuts and honey. That's convenient for me. I might add whey to boost the overall protein content and make it two servings.

The thing is, if you don't eat enough, the protein shakes will be just burned for energy and pissed out, you can also drink milk to have that. Protein shakes at the right times, i.e. between meals or post WO are good and also will help with the diet, but protein shakes INSTEAD of meals is a waste.

Here's where I disagree (sort of). My shakes are taken, instead of meals, in the sense that I need to consume a certain number of meals to make gains in size or strength. This means I either have to actually EAT (as in chew and swallow) all of those meals, or I can eat half and DRINK half of them. Based on my daily routine, the latter is more practical (and effective).

With that said, I agree with much of what you've posted. I should also note that it's taken nearly two days to pry Deicide's diet and training regime out of him. That's part of his problem.

He claims that he trains "hard" and eats "right". That says nothing. Until/unless he breaks downs the specifics, he won't know what to fix on either side of the equation and will make marginal progress, at best.

Plus, it is my opinion that Deicide really wants SIZE, moreso than definition. But, he's so afraid of being called "fat", that's he's convinced himself that whittling himself to 143 lb (at 5'8") is a better strategy. Even ripped, 5'8, 143 is borderline crackhead. And, I don't think that's the look he deisres.

[wavelength]

Yes, but you cannot replace only the protein. It's impossible. FULL foods offer a much better approach than protein alone, i see the convenience issue, but taking a meal only consisting of protein is not good if you do it on a regular basis and for half of your meals.

If Deicide would replace two of his daily shakes with food, he'd have much less problems.

You can easily get all required nutrition (micros, fiber, EFAs, etc.) while getting most of your protein from shakes. Please explain why this should not be possible? And what scientific basis do you have for your statement on meals consisting of protein only?

[dr.chimps]

11 pages!? Haven't you given up, yet?  

[Butterbean]

You can easily get all required nutrition (micros, fiber, EFAs, etc.) while getting most of your protein from shakes. Please explain why this should not be possible? And what scientific basis do you have for your statement on meals consisting of protein only?

Are some of you talking about MRP shakes and some mainly Protein shakes?

[wavelength]

Are some of you talking about MRP shakes and some mainly Protein shakes?

My statement was referring to protein shakes.

[Deicide]

You can easily get all required nutrition (micros, fiber, EFAs, etc.) while getting most of your protein from shakes. Please explain why this should not be possible? And what scientific basis do you have for your statement on meals consisting of protein only?

Yup. Made some of the best gains in my life where the majority of my protein was shake based. Always have at least one solid meal though...

[Deicide]

Here's where I disagree (sort of). My shakes are taken, instead of meals, in the sense that I need to consume a certain number of meals to make gains in size or strength. This means I either have to actually EAT (as in chew and swallow) all of those meals, or I can eat half and DRINK half of them. Based on my daily routine, the latter is more practical (and effective).

With that said, I agree with much of what you've posted. I should also note that it's taken nearly two days to pry Deicide's diet and training regime out of him. That's part of his problem.

He claims that he trains "hard" and eats "right". That says nothing. Until/unless he breaks downs the specifics, he won't know what to fix on either side of the equation and will make marginal progress, at best.

Plus, it is my opinion that Deicide really wants SIZE, moreso than definition. But, he's so afraid of being called "fat", that's he's convinced himself that whittling himself to 143 lb (at 5'8") is a better strategy. Even ripped, 5'8, 143 is borderline crackhead. And, I don't think that's the look he deisres.

As I said, I am dedicated to getting lean now. I am already fat at 20%, what is the point of going even higher? I feel disgusting like that; I know because I have been there.

These past weeks I have been making good progress in the gym, strength is going up on HST. At the moment I don't have any real complaints.

[MCWAY]

As I said, I am dedicated to getting lean now. I am already fat at 20%, what is the point of going even higher? I feel disgusting like that; I know because I have been there.

These past weeks I have been making good progress in the gym, strength is going up on HST. At the moment I don't have any real complaints.

Then, why did you start this thread (or any of the others)?

If those pics of yours on another thread are accurate, you are hardly "fat". And, that's one of the issues here.

Whittling yourself to 143 and thinking that you're going to later regain pure muscle mass (to a large degree) is a bad idea.

[Deicide]

Then, why did you start this thread (or any of the others)?

If those pics of yours on another thread are accurate, you are hardly "fat". And, that's one of the issues here.

Whittling yourself to 143 and thinking that you're going to later regain pure muscle mass (to a large degree) is a bad idea.

Bbing fat=no abs or worse, yes, still fat. I guess this thread got started as a part of a meltdown. I think a bulk can be better controlled if starting from low bf imo.

[kiwiol]

As I said, I am dedicated to getting lean now. I am already fat at 20%, what is the point of going even higher? I feel disgusting like that; I know because I have been there.

These past weeks I have been making good progress in the gym, strength is going up on HST. At the moment I don't have any real complaints.

You definitely are a bit more relaxed today. Don't let this place mess with your head, Deicide - trust me, I know what I'm talking about

[Deicide]

You definitely are a bit more relaxed today. Don't let this place mess with your head, Deicide - trust me, I know what I'm talking about

I doubt it. You and I are forever separated by our teams, polar opposites...

[affeman]

Why is the shape so important to you, Deicide? Why do you let it pull yourself down so badly?

Isn't it ridicolous to define you self esteem solely on the % of BF you have? Maybe you should face that you're not born for that shit and point blank. I'm sure you got other talents, finde em.

[MCWAY]

Bbing fat=no abs or worse, yes, still fat. I guess this thread got started as a part of a meltdown. I think a bulk can be better controlled if starting from low bf imo.

But, unless you've competed in the past at some show, of which we're not aware, you aren't a bodybuilder. Again, you're too worried about being called "bodybuilding fat". Heck, even bodybuilders (by and large) aren't ripped year round.

If you're going to go through the rigors of getting ripped, put some meat your bones FIRST. You'll get the results you ULTIMATELY seek significantly faster that way.

[Deicide]

Why is the shape so important to you, Deicide? Why do you let it pull yourself down so badly?

Isn't it ridicolous to define you self esteem solely on the % of BF you have? Maybe you should face that you're not born for that shit and point blank. I'm sure you got other talents, finde em.

Das ist wahr. Nicht jeder kann ein maechtiger Affemann sein!

[Deicide]

But, unless you've competed in the past at some show, of which we're not aware, you aren't a bodybuilder. Again, you're too worried about being called "bodybuilding fat". Heck, even bodybuilders (by and large) aren't ripped year round.

If you're going to go through the rigors of getting ripped, put some meat your bones FIRST. You'll get the results you ULTIMATELY seek significantly faster that way.

Well, when I was younger I pretty obese and I have never seen my abs so I guess it is kind of a personal goal in a way.

[affeman]

Bodybuilding ist kein Sport, wie viele meinen. Es ist eine Lebensphilosophie, die überhaupt nichts mit Fitness zu tun hat, sondern im Grunde krankhaft ist. Krankhaft deswegen, weil es sich um eine Zwangsstörung handelt, ähnlich einer Essstörung wie der Anorexie oder Bulimie. Der “Philosophie“ des Bodybuilding liegt ein übersteigerter Narzissmus zugrunde, der von einer muskeldysmorphen Störung (sog. Muskeldysmorphie, nicht gleichzusetzen mit Muskeldysmorphophobie) gekennzeichnet ist - unabhängig davon, ob man Bodybuilding wettkampfmäßig betreibt oder “nur für sich“. Die Muskeldysmorphie kann man als “Muskelsucht“ übersetzen. Man nennt sie neuerdings auch Bigorexie (quasi als Gegenstück zur Anorexie), Frau Prof. Mangweth geht in Ihrem Buchbeitrag noch näher darauf ein.
Das, was Bodybuilder beim “Wettkampf“ auf der Bühne aufführen, das sog. “Posen“, sprich das Zur-Schaustellen ihrer Muskulatur, ist nichts als eine (wie ich finde, lachhafte) Show muskelsüchtiger Freaks, deren Mittelpunkt ihrer Lebensinteressen im Querschnitt und in der Definition ihrer Muckis liegt. Alles andere ist zweitrangig - soziale Kontakte, Beruf und sogar die Familie. Mit einem noch akzeptablen Narzissmus (Ich nenne es “gesunde Eitelkeit“) hat das nichts mehr zu tun. Vielmehr ist es eine schwere Zwangsstörung.

[The Wizard of Truth]

Post pics of ur friends asian gf???

[Deicide]

Naja. Das ist irgendeine besserwissende Frau...

[Tre]

At your size, you can get from 20% bf to 'visible abs' in 2-3 weeks.

Although I'm currently taking half my protein in shakes, too, I'm a bigtime food advocate and would prefer to get another real meal in.  On days when that's possible, that's what I do.

Because I still do some snacking, I don't do full meal replacement shakes...I use the zero-carb Isopure from Nature's Best, which contains the BCAAs I need.  I'll have one at 7am, PWO (varies), and bedtime.  Sometimes I'll even add a 4th if it's too inconvenient to eat when I'm out or at my daughter's house. 

I recently increased my protein from 200-240/day up to 300-350/day and WOW, my desire for snacks has been greatly reduced.  I'm not going to see an immediate drop in bf, though, as my caloric intake is about the same, but if I can maintain this, over time, the increase in LBM and reduced cortisol release should help me, even without daily cardio. 

[Deicide]

At your size, you can get from 20% bf to 'visible abs' in 2-3 weeks.

Although I'm currently taking half my protein in shakes, too, I'm a bigtime food advocate and would prefer to get another real meal in.  On days when that's possible, that's what I do.

Because I still do some snacking, I don't do full meal replacement shakes...I use the zero-carb Isopure from Nature's Best, which contains the BCAAs I need.  I'll have one at 7am, PWO (varies), and bedtime.  Sometimes I'll even add a 4th if it's too inconvenient to eat when I'm out or at my daughter's house. 

I recently increased my protein from 200-240/day up to 300-350/day and WOW, my desire for snacks has been greatly reduced.  I'm not going to see an immediate drop in bf, though, as my caloric intake is about the same, but if I can maintain this, over time, the increase in LBM and reduced cortisol release should help me, even without daily cardio. 

Your age? Are you natural?

[wavelength]

At your size, you can get from 20% bf to 'visible abs' in 2-3 weeks.

How?

[Deicide]

How?

Jesus....

[Tre]

Your age? Are you natural?

38, lifelong natural...used some prohormones back in 1999-2000 and taking OTC tren now. 

With the exception of working out, I'm behind my desk most of the day. 

...

How?

90min - 2 hours of cardio per day with keto diet.  Oh, and don't forget the daily ab work. 

I'm not saying he'll be ripped in 2-3 weeks, but he'll see his abs. 

[MCWAY]

At your size, you can get from 20% bf to 'visible abs' in 2-3 weeks.

Although I'm currently taking half my protein in shakes, too, I'm a bigtime food advocate and would prefer to get another real meal in.  On days when that's possible, that's what I do.

Because I still do some snacking, I don't do full meal replacement shakes...I use the zero-carb Isopure from Nature's Best, which contains the BCAAs I need.  I'll have one at 7am, PWO (varies), and bedtime.  Sometimes I'll even add a 4th if it's too inconvenient to eat when I'm out or at my daughter's house. 

I recently increased my protein from 200-240/day up to 300-350/day and WOW, my desire for snacks has been greatly reduced.  I'm not going to see an immediate drop in bf, though, as my caloric intake is about the same, but if I can maintain this, over time, the increase in LBM and reduced cortisol release should help me, even without daily cardio. 

You can have "visible abs" at 20% bodyfat. It all depends on how your bodyfat is distributed on your frame.

I can see my abs, no problem. However, my struggles are keeping the "love handles" in check (especially, when trying to put on mass).