No cardio needed for weightloss just correct calorie manipulation ?

[Method101]

What's the point of doing 30 mins of cardio to burn 300 calories, when you can just eat 300 less calories per day?

Is there any diffrence really?

They both slow your metabolism equally in the long term.


P.s Update on my Diet
So far, 4 weeks into my diet iv lost 10lbs. Very little cardio only walking 

[Deicide]

What's the point of doing 30 mins of cardio to burn 300 calories, when you can just eat 300 less calories per day?

Is there any diffrence really?

They both slow your metabolism equally in the long term.


P.s Update on my Diet
So far, 4 weeks into my diet iv lost 10lbs. Very little cardio only walking 

No difference as far as I can tell. Wavelength would definitely say no difference.

[Tapeworm]

Better cardiovascular health, a type 1 fiber workout as nature intended, and increased t4/t3 conversion, meaning higher metabolism, etc etc

[DK II]

Better cardiovascular health, a type 1 fiber workout as nature intended, and increased t4/t3 conversion, meaning higher metabolism, etc etc

True.

Also, cardio makes you burn MUCH more fat than simply restricting calories. Restrictign calories only will lead to burning muscle and fat, whereas a high protein diet, amino acid supplementation AND cardio will lead to more fatloss.

[Deicide]

True.

Also, cardio makes you burn MUCH more fat than simply restricting calories. Restrictign calories only will lead to burning muscle and fat, whereas a high protein diet, amino acid supplementation AND cardio will lead to more fatloss.

I didn't say it but Wavelength would disagree.

[no one]

True.

Also, cardio makes you burn MUCH more fat than simply restricting calories. Restrictign calories only will lead to burning muscle and fat, whereas a high protein diet, amino acid supplementation AND cardio will lead to more fatloss.

respectfully, i don't agree.

i find cardio flattens you out and actually causes wasting as opposed to diet that restricts calorie intake and negates any type of cardio.

[tbombz]

respectfully, i don't agree.

i find cardio flattens you out and actually causes wasting as opposed to diet that restricts calorie intake and negates any type of cardio.

yes and no. if the cardio is very relaxed, and short term, then its fine. 15 minutes treadmill walking on a 1.0 incline about 2.5 to 3.0 mph after the workout... this is fine..

[DK II]

yes and no. if the cardio is very relaxed, and short term, then its fine. 15 minutes treadmill walking on a 1.0 incline about 2.5 to 3.0 mph after the workout... this is fine..

I'd rather say the opposite and say that 30mins of high intense cardio does the trick.

15-30 mins of HIIT cardio burn off fat like a bbq a piece of butter.

[Method101]

I'd rather say the opposite and say that 30mins of high intense cardio does the trick.

15-30 mins of HIIT cardio burn off fat like a bbq a piece of butter.

bullshit donkey.

Either your calorie intake is higher or lower than whats needed to burn fat, thats all that matters.

[wavelength]

There are benefits to cardio, no doubt about it. IMO, body composition is not one of them as long as rate of weight change is the same.
I do better without cardio.

[erokyrwrld]

I've had the best results with long (45min+) sessions of mild cardio (bpm <130).  Little to no muscle loss and quick fat loss.  I wouldn't advise it during a bulker though.

[DK II]

bullshit donkey.

Either your calorie intake is higher or lower than whats needed to burn fat, thats all that matters.

Yes, because your body either builds muscle or burns fat, there's no way he could do both....  

That's Bullshit. You have 24 hours every day, when you create an anabolic environment around training yet cut the calories in the evening, your body will use the calories after training to build the muscle and when your body is resting, it will burn off fat.

another possibilty is the refeed system, you mix high calorie and low calorie days, what means that you have 4 anabolic days and 3 catabolic days per week, so to speak.

There are a lot of ways to build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

[DK II]

http://myogenic.de/wiki/praxis:912-hst

for the german speaking persons, i am looking up an english version now.

[tbombz]

Yes, because your body either builds muscle or burns fat, there's no way he could do both....  

That's Bullshit. You have 24 hours every day, when you create an anabolic environment around training yet cut the calories in the evening, your body will use the calories after training to build the muscle and when your body is resting, it will burn off fat.

another possibilty is the refeed system, you mix high calorie and low calorie days, what means that you have 4 anabolic days and 3 catabolic days per week, so to speak.

There are a lot of ways to build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

all true

[DK II]

here's from the inventor of 912hst, zyko:

well, there are two basic principles behind 912:

1.working out a lot burns a lot of calories (which is good for getting rid of that annoying bodyfat).

and 2. working out a lot (heavy, frequent stimuli) helps retaining lean mass.

comparing the effects of heavy strenght training and cardio on EPOC, it appears to me that HST-like strength training is more effective for burning calories than any form of low intensity cardio (I'm speaking of LSD, long steady distance, not HIIT or interval training, which might be quite useful on the other hand).

see for example
schuenke et al. Effect of an acute period of resistance  exercise on excess post-exercise oxygen consumption: implications for body mass management. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Mar;86(5):411-7.
for further details. this study investigated the effects of a 3 sets, 10 reps to failure training protocol consisting of only 3 exercises (bench press, squat and power clean, 35 minutes in total per training session) on it's effect on resting metabolic rate following 48h after the initial workout. mean increase in metabolism was 20% in these two days. this is a whole lot of energetic demand for regeneration compared to cardio, which has not been shown to have any prolonged effects on metabolism.

all the other stuff in the article is rather supposed to server as an inspiration on how to conceive a training routine that provides the above stated criteria. if you don't like working out only 12 days in a row, go ahead and change the plan the way it fits you best (if you think you can handle such volume, frequency and load for more than 12 days without burning out). yet only one cycle of 912 was never actually supposed to form a stand-alone diet by itself. normally, a decent diet would consist of a sequence of such cycles.

a lot of people got sore joints and tendons from 912, while I have never heard of any serious injuries. I guess it's a blatantly stupid idea to suddenly increase every parameter of one's workout by 300-400% without further preparation. of course you need the general physical preparedness to sustain such poundages every day. this is just common sense.

I can't provide any empirical data in english language, but there is plenty to read on the german forums about 912. generally, people don't enjoy it ("too much, too heavy"), but no one I ever heard of has had disappointing results in the way of fat loss.
in the end, it's just a question of caloric balance. if you eat 2000kcal and metabolise 3000kcal, you lose 1000kcal equivalent of bodyfat. 912 or any other routine simply helps wasting more energy.

[wavelength]

Yes, because your body either builds muscle or burns fat, there's no way he could do both....  

That's Bullshit. You have 24 hours every day, when you create an anabolic environment around training yet cut the calories in the evening, your body will use the calories after training to build the muscle and when your body is resting, it will burn off fat.

another possibilty is the refeed system, you mix high calorie and low calorie days, what means that you have 4 anabolic days and 3 catabolic days per week, so to speak.

There are a lot of ways to build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

Have you ever done the mini bulk-cut cycles DK?
That's something I would like to try.

[DK II]

Have you ever done the mini bulk-cut cycles DK?
That's something I would like to try.

Yes, i have done the anabolic diet with refeed days, 4 days of no/low carb with about 500 calories less and then one refeed day with about 1000-2000 calories more than the normal days, mostly of carbs and a bit protein.

It worked out very good, but fucked me up in the head. the four no carb days i was depressed, tired, couldn't concentrate or think, on the refeed days i felt good but had to eat all day long, what got a bit annoying after some time.

Results were pretty good though, best i ever had on only diet changes, no cardio at that time.

[Deicide]

Have you ever done the mini bulk-cut cycles DK?
That's something I would like to try.

Debussey recommends this but he said for me it would be better to first get down to very low bf and then do a month bulk, then a month cut...etc...

[wavelength]

Debussey recommends this but he said for me it would be better to first get down to very low bf and then do a month bulk, then a month cut...etc...

As I said, most experts advise longer bulk-cut cycles. I have never tried very short ones, but I want to try for my next bulk, staying single digit BF all the time.

[Viking11]

You want as big a caloric deficit as you can safely manage. [O lets say (in my case), maintaince calories per day is 2500. If I cut that by 500, then I'm at 2000 calories a day, and at a 500 calories deficit. That's good for a lb of fat loss a week. But, to reach my goal, I need to lose TWO lbs a week. I can, A) Cut my calories by another 500, or B) Do whatever amount of cardio it takes to burn 500 calories. A is fine, IF you can live on 1500 calories for weeks a time (and not lose muscle). I prefer to take in more nutrients, esp protein to help maintain muscle, give a thermogenic effect, and not feel like I'm constantly hungry. Its really an individual thing, but almost all higher level competitors do the higher food, cardio route.

[gordiano]

You want as big a caloric deficit as you can safely manage. [O lets say (in my case), maintaince calories per day is 2500. If I cut that by 500, then I'm at 2000 calories a day, and at a 500 calories deficit. That's good for a lb of fat loss a week. But, to reach my goal, I need to lose TWO lbs a week. I can, A) Cut my calories by another 500, or B) Do whatever amount of cardio it takes to burn 500 calories. A is fine, IF you can live on 1500 calories for weeks a time (and not lose muscle). I prefer to take in more nutrients, esp protein to help maintain muscle, give a thermogenic effect, and not feel like I'm constantly hungry. Its really an individual thing, but almost all higher level competitors do the higher food, cardio route.

Agreed. I'd rather do cardio than cut calories even more.

[Viking11]

You want as big a caloric deficit as you can safely manage. [O lets say (in my case), maintaince calories per day is 2500. If I cut that by 500, then I'm at 2000 calories a day, and at a 500 calories deficit. That's good for a lb of fat loss a week. But, to reach my goal, I need to lose TWO lbs a week. I can, A) Cut my calories by another 500, or B) Do whatever amount of cardio it takes to burn 500 calories. A is fine, IF you can live on 1500 calories for weeks a time (and not lose muscle). I prefer to take in more nutrients, esp protein to help maintain muscle, give a thermogenic effect, and not feel like I'm constantly hungry. Its really an individual thing, but almost all higher level competitors do the higher food, cardio route.

[Sherief Shalaby]

What's the point of doing 30 mins of cardio to burn 300 calories, when you can just eat 300 less calories per day?

Is there any diffrence really?

They both slow your metabolism equally in the long term.


P.s Update on my Diet
So far, 4 weeks into my diet iv lost 10lbs. Very little cardio only walking 

i burn around 420 calories in 30 minutes!!..

[kyomu]

Dont care!!

We should be muscular and capable of running semi long(2km around) distance quite fast!!

[Method101]

Layne Norton says you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, i think he knows his shit alot better than you guys, sorry no offence intended.

Building muscle dosen't happen in a matter of hours donkey, it's atleast a 2-3 day period after the muscle has been trained. The body won't use calories to build additional muscle tissue when your in a caloric defecit.