White firefighters in New Haven win Supreme Court reverse discrimination case

[nodeal]

Why must a group of blacks, who did not perform well on a test, cry that the test was unfair towards certain races instead of being disappointed in themselves for not performing well? Why is it always some type of exterior force that blacks must blame for their shitty situations? Why do they never take responsibility for their own shortcomings?

[Tre]

~WTF is "reverse discimination" - like discrimination goes only one way - FUCK SAKE I hate this PC Bullshit - there is also reverse sexism BOLLOX
The same shit with - "positive discrimination" I hear that crap in the office a lot - what it means is that "for excample" the German governement sets a certain target for Companies of a % of woman that have to be given a chance to have a leading position in the board - because some bitch gets the automaticly the job even if (by pure chance) some guy is much better suited and qualified for it - thats what they call "positive discrimination"

For years, the argument in the U.S. has been that Blacks and other non-Whites did not have the power to discriminate.  Blacks and other non-Whites could be 'prejudiced', but the liberals who defined the terms for the debate put discrimination solely in the negative category 'for Whites only'. 

[Tre]

Why must a group of blacks, who did not perform well on a test, cry that the test was unfair towards certain races instead of being disappointed in themselves for not performing well? Why is it always some type of exterior force that blacks must blame for their shitty situations? Why do they never take responsibility for their own shortcomings?

That is NOT what happened here. 

I can sense that you want to expand the discussion to allow for your prejudice, but what I don't want is for you to have a false impression of what happened in this case.

The city threw out the results of the test, not because non-White firefighters complained about the results, but because they didn't WANT to be sued because no non-Whites qualified for advancement. 

The test doesn't know what race any of the test-takers are.  The exam is non-biased.  The people who prepared best did best on the exam, period.

To your broader statements, in general, I do agree that we are largely responsible for where we are in life.  Although the deck is stacked against many of us - not just Blacks - I do agree that we have a lot of doggone opportunities that we don't take advantage of...myself included. 

[nodeal]

That is NOT what happened here. 

I can sense that you want to expand the discussion to allow for your prejudice, but what I don't want is for you to have a false impression of what happened in this case.

The city threw out the results of the test, not because non-White firefighters complained about the results, but because they didn't WANT to be sued because no non-Whites qualified for advancement. 

The test doesn't know what race any of the test-takers are.  The exam is non-biased.  The people who prepared best did best on the exam, period.

To your broader statements, in general, I do agree that we are largely responsible for where we are in life.  Although the deck is stacked against many of us - not just Blacks - I do agree that we have a lot of doggone opportunities that we don't take advantage of...myself included. 

In the video on the top of page 3 the reporter says that the city responded to complaints by the black test takers who were stating it was unfair.

[Tre]

In the video on the top of page 3 the reporter says that the city responded to complaints by the black test takers who were stating it was unfair.

Ah, the first - and only - time I've heard that mentioned.  Not surprised that it came from CNN. 

One interesting thing in the video was the text from the minority opinion written by Justice Ginsburg.  She said that the only disagreement with the majority ruling was over the issue of Title VII, which was concerned with the disparate percentages of the scores by race. 

So, the fact that the percentages were the ONLY point of contention - as judged by the Supreme Court - says that New Haven did act responsibly in setting up the selection process.  That says that the Court is thinking common sensically and that's good for us all.

[Fury]

New Haven sucks. What a shitty pseudo-city. 

[jack_ftype]

black males are a seriously at-risk population

lol, like some endangered species, yeah right

That says that the Court is thinking common sensically and that's good for us all.

it's all too rare

the supreme court has been constricting our rights slowly for decades, look at some other recent decisions.  relaxed laws against self-incrimination, giving cops more leeway in interrogating suspects who request legal representation.  they've been nipping away slowly and soon we'll have none left.

and the shit I can't believe is sotomayor, people say she should be on the supreme court, she'll be the first hispanic, she's a woman, blah blah blah.

the Supreme court is NOT A REPRESENTATIVE BODY.  if she wasn't a hispanic woman she wouldn't have even been considered.

this was a good decision though.  they are just too few and far between these days.

[dr.chimps]

lol, like some endangered species, yeah right
it's all too rare

the supreme court has been constricting our rights slowly for decades, look at some other recent decisions.  relaxed laws against self-incrimination, giving cops more leeway in interrogating suspects who request legal representation.  they've been nipping away slowly and soon we'll have none left.

and the shit I can't believe is sotomayor, people say she should be on the supreme court, she'll be the first hispanic, she's a woman, blah blah blah.

the Supreme court is NOT A REPRESENTATIVE BODY.  if she wasn't a hispanic woman she wouldn't have even been considered.

this was a good decision though.  they are just too few and far between these days.

Probably true. This being politics, and all. But if she wasn't a good jurist, she wouldn't have even registered on the legal radar. Ya know?  Kinda like John Roberts hitting the bench and becoming the Supreme Court Justice. 

[Tre]

I agree that the Supreme Court doesn't need to look like America. 

But all the available evidence tells us that black males, yes, are 'like some endangered species'. 

A ridiculously high percentage of black males are in prison and they've left behind kids who are being raised by mothers who simply are not equipped to be both mommy and daddy in a household.  This leads to a propagation of the 'prison species'. 

I know it sounds like rhetoric from the privileged black moderate's mouth (hey, I'll need to use that one again), but every successful black person not named Obama should be focused in on improving our collective lot in order to preserve black American culture. 

This notion of preservation is not a concept that I expect to be important to non-Blacks, but I do hope that non-Blacks understand the necessity - and global benefits - of making the black population in America more productive than it currently is. 

[Luv2Hurt]

"Blood in the streets in the town of New Haven"

[dr.chimps]

Give me L.A. Woman, any day, bro. 

/and not the shitty 3 minute radio version; the 7.5 minute interstate cruising version 

[Luv2Hurt]

Give me L.A. Woman, any day, bro. 

/and not the shitty 3 minute radio version; the 7.5 minute interstate cruising version 

  Yep but gotta love Peace Frog.  Any reference to New Haven always makes me think of that song.  The references to Chicago, my home town sends chills down my spine still.  That song is gritty.

[dr.chimps]

Yep but gotta love Peace Frog.  Any reference to New Haven always makes me think of that song.  The references to Chicago, my home town sends chills down my spine still.  That song is gritty.

Agree. Great town. But, when I think of Chi-town, I think of music, and food, food, food. I'm simple that way. 

[The Wizard of Truth]

I agree that the Supreme Court doesn't need to look like America. 

But all the available evidence tells us that black males, yes, are 'like some endangered species'. 

A ridiculously high percentage of black males are in prison and they've left behind kids who are being raised by mothers who simply are not equipped to be both mommy and daddy in a household.  This leads to a propagation of the 'prison species'. 

I know it sounds like rhetoric from the privileged black moderate's mouth (hey, I'll need to use that one again), but every successful black person not named Obama should be focused in on improving our collective lot in order to preserve black American culture. 

This notion of preservation is not a concept that I expect to be important to non-Blacks, but I do hope that non-Blacks understand the necessity - and global benefits - of making the black population in America more productive than it currently is. 

Well the nigs arent in prison for no reason
Also,yes I agree with you,blacks arent equipped to be decent parents
What should we do? Sterilise them?? I think that is the best solution

And why should the world 'understand the benefits' of productive black americans??
You guys have been given opportunity upon opportunity and you still cry racism when your not upto the white mans level
Be thankful your not still a fucking slave
Now fuck off

[Tre]

Well the nigs arent in prison for no reason
Also,yes I agree with you,blacks arent equipped to be decent parents
What should we do? Sterilise them?? I think that is the best solution

And why should the world 'understand the benefits' of productive black americans??
You guys have been given opportunity upon opportunity and you still cry racism when your not upto the white mans level
Be thankful your not still a fucking slave
Now fuck off

I realize you aren't that well-educated, but you do make many references to the 'spongers' in your posts.  To put it simply, if those people were working, then they would not be sponging.  The annual tax savings alone to you and others like you makes it worthwhile to find a way to put people to work, to say nothing of the fact that workers actually pay taxes. 

It's just common sense that a more productive population benefits everyone in the larger population. 

Racism doesn't impact one's capacity to do something, but it does often impact opportunity. 

[The Wizard of Truth]

Why the fuck should we constantly have to help them though???
Slavery is abolished,blacks are allowed on buses,so why should we CONSTANTLY have to bend over backwards to given 'black youth' an opportunity??? Fuck them,its in their hands,not ours
Our blacks are lazy worthless africans who dress like a rapper

[Tre]

Why the fuck should we constantly have to help them though???
Slavery is abolished,blacks are allowed on buses,so why should we CONSTANTLY have to bend over backwards to given 'black youth' an opportunity??? Fuck them,its in their hands,not ours
Our blacks are lazy worthless africans who dress like a rapper

Then instead of selling the images of the 'black rapper' to black kids, why not sell them images of the 'black businessman' or 'black teacher'? 

If our society is training them to become something undesirable - a rap video 'thug', for example - then why don't we bear SOME responsibility in working to fix that ongoing problem? 

The problem is that a free-market society set things up this way...we can't stop the decision-makers - the majority of whom are NOT black - from doing what they can to make money, but given that reality, they've gotta own some share of the blame, too.

But blame aside, the problems need to be corrected and not just talked about.

[The Wizard of Truth]

You are a highly intelligent man
But you must stop your crusade for black youth,the majority of them are fucked,be it society,bad parenting or less brains then whitey
Either way,the (chocolate) cream will rise to the top and the rest of the blacks will blame whitey for holding them back

[Tapeworm]

Tre, it's pretty cool that you're going to try to help out kids who would otherwise fall through the cracks.  Not sure how much luck you'll have on a broad scale but without effort nothing would change.  Good on ya.

[The Wizard of Truth]

Tre, it's pretty cool that you're going to try to help out kids who would otherwise fall through the cracks.  Not sure how much luck you'll have on a broad scale but without effort nothing would change.  Good on ya.

x2
I have respect for Tre but its not whites fault that blacks are unmotivated

[spinnis]

Then instead of selling the images of the 'black rapper' to black kids, why not sell them images of the 'black businessman' or 'black teacher'? 

Thats the solution.
But guess why its not happening?

Because of blacks.

[Tre]

Thats the solution.
But guess why its not happening?

Because of blacks.

There's a large degree of truth in your argument and it starts with parents turning OFF the TVs and radios and putting kids' heads in books. 

When they walk out the door into the world, they're still going to be exposed to things that aren't healthy to them, but the less TV a kid watches, the better he does in school.

I have a black daughter, but her mother is white.  She insists that the kid should be raised on television.  Gotta have a 'show' with every goddamn meal.  Now, I have a smart kid thanks to the great genetics she gets from me and my family, but why must her mother work so hard to try to dumb down our child with the TV and the movies, and every damn thing that says 'Hannah Montana' on it?  It's weird, but the answer is that she doesn't WANT our child to be smart, because smart kids don't follow religion (Mormon) as much as the dumb kids do.  Smart kids ask too many tough questions in church, something their church frowns upon. 

That said, FUCK Hannah Montana (no pedo).  That bitch doesn't pay a single one of the bills, yet to look around the house, you'd think she had her own room there.   

[Tre]

You are a highly intelligent man
But you must stop your crusade for black youth,the majority of them are fucked,be it society,bad parenting or less brains then whitey
Either way,the (chocolate) cream will rise to the top and the rest of the blacks will blame whitey for holding them back

You're 100% correct about the cream rising to the top, but that does not take away our responsibility to help those who need strong fathers.  The work has to be done, regardless of the reasons the fathers aren't there. 

This was posted on RXM by a beautiful - and seemingly intelligent - black woman:

BTW, if you're wondering where all the fine, black men are. Go visit a prison one day. you'd be amazed and saddened all at the same time.

I cannot believe she made that statement, even though she feels it to be true.  I don't see anything 'fine' about the people in prison (although I'm sure there are some exceptions), yet this is her position.   

I have respect for Tre but its not whites fault that blacks are unmotivated

Thanks, man.  Didn't mean to get so heated with you, but I'm deeply passionate about these issues, because they're just that important, not just to me, and not just to Blacks, but to the entire world.  My jaw dropped the other day when the black female reporter asked Obama what *he* is going to do about the 20% unemployment rate among black men.  That number is mind-boggling...a definite cause for alarm.

Tre, it's pretty cool that you're going to try to help out kids who would otherwise fall through the cracks.  Not sure how much luck you'll have on a broad scale but without effort nothing would change.  Good on ya.

Thanks for your kind words.  I've always known it would take the collective efforts of millions to bring about effective change, but I've always had a belief that I could get a small avalanche started all on my own.  I remember when black student organizations were doing community work during my university years...I never participated, despite being very active on the seminar circuit and joining in think tanks.  I felt that my work needed to happen elsewhere - I was gonna bring the light to non-Blacks - and so I didn't get my hands dirty. 

The lingering guilt from my failure to get involved early does motivate me now somewhat.  Times have definitely changed, I have a lot more life experience, and being a parent has greatly broadened my perspective.  I also have many more resources at my disposal now and really have the ability to do a lot more than I could've back then. 

My generation has completely forgotten The Struggle or never learned much about it at all and we're doing ourselves a tremendous disservice by not teaching our kids about what our parents went through so that we can enjoy all the freedom and opportunities we have today. 

Thanks for the time, everyone.  I really need to get some sleep now that I think the dog is going to be ok (my not-so-bright ex-wife let the little pup eat chocolate - ARGH!). 

[lax]

New Haven sucks. What a shitty pseudo-city. 

yes
home of one of the greatest Universities in the world
and
The world's greatest law school

[The Wizard of Truth]

yes
home of one of the greatest Universities in the world
and
The world's greatest law school

BerzerkFury has downs syndrome