Author Topic: Depression ... Does this exist?  (Read 7775 times)

Deicide

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Re: Depression
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2009, 04:32:21 AM »
Brutal name.

Poor posting genetics right there...
I hate the State.

Tapeworm

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Re: Depression
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2009, 06:19:31 AM »
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

You will... sooner or later.

Ursus

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Re: Depression
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2009, 06:41:08 AM »
To clarify i understand proper clinical depressions.

but

i see so mnay turds on anti depressants who hjust dont work get free moneyt and seem relatively normal people

Mr Nobody

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Re: Depression
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2009, 09:38:31 AM »
Debussey thinks your far off base here. Perhaps not in the most pill-happy societies, but in many countries where the usage of prescription drugs = more restrictive (like in Norway).

The problem is that people who are depressed often can't just "think themselves out of it". Many needs the meds just to be able to function so that they can go into therapy, and even if a person JUST goes for therapy to get better the road to recovery is still often very long.

If therapy will help you heal your depression in 6-12 months, you've still been wasting that time being depressed. If somebody can get well while not feeling like shit due to meds, it = better. No reason spending your precious hours feeling bad if you can avoid it.
Spot on - A surprising post by Debussey

Necrosis

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Re: Depression
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »

That is OPIUM. It's a natural plant that has been used for thousands of years.


St. Johns wart has been proven useless.

you must not read the literature then because there have been a couple studies showing it effective for MDD, and in a head to head RCT with prozac, it lowered depressive symptoms and was tolerated better.

quite a ridiculous statement

Necrosis

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Re: Depression
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2009, 10:32:30 AM »
Superior for what condition? Benzos are well known to worsen depression over the long term. For rapid anxiolytic effect they are of course superior.

they are known to worsen anxiety symptoms once tolerance builds and dose escalation sets in also, bad option for anxiety.

Necrosis

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Re: Depression
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2009, 10:39:58 AM »

That is OPIUM. It's a natural plant that has been used for thousands of years.


St. Johns wart has been proven useless.

everytime i converse with you about science you make bold proclamations that you cant substantiate.

1: Phytomedicine. 2009 Apr;16(4):277-83. Epub 2009 Mar 18. Links
Long-term effects of St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) treatment: a 1-year safety study in mild to moderate depression.Brattström A.
Max Zeller Söhne Zeller AG, Seeblickstr. 4, CH-8590 Romanshorn, Switzerland. axel.brattstroem@zellerag.ch

Long-term safety and the effects of a St. John's wort (SJW) extract Ze 117 (Hypericum perforatum) were evaluated in the treatment of patients with depression. An open multicentre safety study with 440 out-patients suffering from mild to moderate depression according to ICD-10 was conducted. Patients were treated for up to 1 year with 500 mg St. John's wort extract per day (Ze 117). Evaluation criteria were safety (adverse event frequency) and influence on depression (HAM-D, CGI). Two hundred and seventeen (49%) patients reported 504 adverse events, 30 (6%) of which were possibly or probably related to the treatment. Gastrointestinal and skin complaints were the most common events associated with treatment. No age-related difference in the safety of the applied medication was found. The long-term intake of up to 1 year of the study medication did not result in any changes in clinical chemistry and electrocardiogram recordings. Body mass index (BMI) did not change either. Mean HAM-D scores decreased steadily from 20.58 at baseline to 12.07 at week 26 and to 11.18 at week 52. Mean CGI scores decreased from 3.99 to 2.20 at week 26 and 2.19 at week 52. Therefore, St. John's wort extract ZE 117 is a safe and effective way to treat mild to moderate depression over long periods of time, and therefore seems especially suitable for a relapse prevention.

1: J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2005 Oct;25(5):441-7. Links
A Double-blind, randomized trial of St John's wort, fluoxetine, and placebo in major depressive disorder.Fava M, Alpert J, Nierenberg AA, Mischoulon D, Otto MW, Zajecka J, Murck H, Rosenbaum JF.
Depression Clinical and Research Program, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02114, USA. mfava@partners.org

OBJECTIVE: This study looks to compare the antidepressant efficacy and safety of a standardized extract of St John's wort with both placebo and fluoxetine. METHOD: After a 1-week single-blind washout, patients with major depressive disorder diagnosed by Structured Clinical Interview for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition were randomized to 12 weeks of double-blind treatment with LI-160 St John's wort extract (900 mg/d), fluoxetine (20 mg/d), or placebo. The 17-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAMD-17) was the primary efficacy measure, and analysis of covariance was used to compare differences in end point HAMD-17 scores across the 3 treatment groups, treating the baseline HAMD-17 as the covariate. RESULTS: One hundred thirty-five patients (57% women; mean age, 37.3 +/- 11.0; mean HAMD-17, 19.7 +/- 3.2) were randomized to double-blind treatment and were included in the intent-to-treat analyses. Analysis of covariance analyses showed lower mean HAMD-17 scores at end point in the St John's wort group (n = 45; mean +/- SD, 10.2 +/- 6.6) compared with the fluoxetine group (n = 47; 13.3 +/- 7.3; P < 0.03) and a trend toward a similar finding relative to the placebo group (n = 43; 12.6 +/- 6.4; P = 0.096). There was also a trend toward higher rates of remission (HAMD-17 <8) in the St John's wort group (38%) compared with the fluoxetine group (30%) and the placebo group (21%). Overall, St John's wort appeared to be safe and well tolerated. CONCLUSION: St John's wort was significantly more effective than fluoxetine and showed a trend toward superiority over placebo. A (25%) smaller than planned sample size is likely to account for the lack of statistical significance for the advantage (indicating a moderate effect size, d = 0.45) of St John's wort over placebo.


ANOTHER


Main results
A total of 29 trials (5489 patients) including 18 comparisons with placebo and 17 comparisons with synthetic standard antidepressants met the inclusion criteria. Results of placebo-controlled trials showed marked heterogeneity. In nine larger trials the combined response rate ratio (RR) for hypericum extracts compared with placebo was 1.28 (95% confidence interval (CI), 1.10 to 1.49) and from nine smaller trials was 1.87 (95% CI, 1.22 to 2.87). Results of trials comparing hypericum extracts and standard antidepressants were statistically homogeneous. Compared with tri- or tetracyclic antidepressants and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), respectively, RRs were 1.02 (95% CI, 0.90 to 1.15; 5 trials) and 1.00 (95% CI, 0.90 to 1.11; 12 trials). Both in placebo-controlled trials and in comparisons with standard antidepressants, trials from German-speaking countries reported findings more favourable to hypericum. Patients given hypericum extracts dropped out of trials due to adverse effects less frequently than those given older antidepressants (odds ratio (OR) 0.24; 95% CI, 0.13 to 0.46) or SSRIs (OR 0.53, 95% CI, 0.34-0.83).

Authors' conclusions
The available evidence suggests that the hypericum extracts tested in the included trials a) are superior to placebo in patients with major depression; b) are similarly effective as standard antidepressants; c) and have fewer side effects than standard antidepressants. The association of country of origin and precision with effects sizes complicates the interpretation.


There are three other studies on MDD and SJW one showing it effective and two showing it is not, the effective one is newer while the two negatives are back in 2001. They are also flawed in the temporal variable, giving only 4 weeks to measure effect, quite a retarded proposal.

Read before you shoot down potentially important information that can help others. SJW is the best antidepressant in terms of effects to side effects. While i would choose others in extreme cases with co-morbid issues, it is a better option then SSRIS which are no more effective then placebo according to pooling of all data availible.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081007192435.htm


"Overall, we found that the St. John's wort extracts tested in the trials were superior to placebos and as effective as standard antidepressants, with fewer side effects," says lead researcher, Klaus Linde of the Centre for Complementary Medicine in Munich, Germany.


just like accupunctures sole action is endorphin release, LMAO.. do yourself a favor and go to pubmed.

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Necrosis

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Re: Depression
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2009, 11:09:29 AM »

SSRI's only "work" on a percentage (less than half) of patients who try them, and no one, including the developers/manufacturers can demonstrate a mode of action or explain just exactly how they "work".  Sounds like hit or miss voodoo medicine to me.  :-\

Benzos are fine if used appropriately.  There is potential for addiction, but if you can use them responsibly and don't have addiction issues, it's no big deal.  If you find yourself popping them every day, it's time to stop.

i didnt see your post, the number is more like 70%. However, benzos as already mentioned worsen depression and xanax in particular lowers cortisol significantly, so if lethargy is part of the picture it may be a bad choice.

i use benzos a couple times a week for two years, i love them they are not an appropriate treatment or first line have you for long term indications like GAD, and especially not depressive syndromes. I use xanax also, simply for its cortisol antagonism, more likely ACTH ant. Valium increases test ;D

i do agree they are fine if use appropriately though. But long term studies have shown shortened life spans, more IBS, and stress syndromes and possible neurotoxicity.

burn2live

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Re: Depression
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2009, 11:22:46 AM »
To clarify i understand proper clinical depressions.

but

i see so mnay turds on anti depressants who hjust dont work get free moneyt and seem relatively normal people

It's Northern Ireland, they are lazy and want benefits!

Deicide

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Re: Depression
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2009, 11:24:35 AM »
I took 3 dumps today.
I hate the State.

Necrosis

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2009, 10:54:25 AM »
BUMP for a response from liberalismo...

Deicide

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2009, 11:00:43 AM »
BUMP for a response from liberalismo...

Depression exists but you are immune to it.
I hate the State.

Necrosis

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2009, 11:24:29 AM »
Depression exists but you are immune to it.

you are making me sad.

The Master

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2009, 11:27:18 AM »
Depression exists but you are immune to it.

Necrosis used to shoulder press 125 pound dumbells at 21, and he was unfortunately paralyzed in a gocard accident not that long after that >:(


Spike

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2009, 11:31:28 AM »
they gave me topamax for my AED and its also used as a mood enhancer when I looked it up


but they give it to cokeheads and drunkhards as well  ???

The Master

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2009, 11:32:56 AM »
they gave me topamax for my AED and its also used as a mood enhancer when I looked it up


but they give it to cokeheads and drunkhards as well  ???

With all this shit, maybe the idea of injecting yourself with vast quantities of BBing drugs = not such a good idea? ;D

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2009, 11:34:08 AM »
Does this exist?

I cant get my head around the whole idea of it.

Or is it exaccerbated by medication other factors etc?

Your posts have been getting dumber by the month, my friend  :(

Spike

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2009, 11:35:04 AM »
With all this shit, maybe the idea of injecting yourself with vast quantities of BBing drugs = not such a good idea? ;D

but if I get small I wont have anything to live for debussey :'(

The Master

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2009, 11:38:45 AM »
but if I get small I wont have anything to live for debussey :'(

Yes you will. You can go to gospel church and sing along with Gary and Debussey!






Spike

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2009, 11:39:48 AM »
if duck goes I'm game

 :D

_bruce_

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2009, 11:49:34 AM »
He who is depressed, ceases to exist.
.

The Master

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2009, 11:51:16 AM »
if duck goes I'm game

 :D

Duck, Dump and Donald Lawrence won't be seen around because Gary wants to hear his voice, but Duck might climb up in the tree next to the church in her camo suit with binoculars. She's a persistent bugger  >:(

Deicide

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Re: Depression ... Does this exist?
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2009, 11:51:51 AM »
He who is depressed, ceases to exist.

I hate the State.

tbombz

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Re: Depression
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2009, 11:58:11 AM »


The problem is that people who are depressed often can't just "think themselves out of it".
 basically nobody can

william james, famous philosopher/psychologist.....is well known for the fact that he willed himself out of a severe depression.

The Master

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Re: Depression
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2009, 11:59:56 AM »
 basically nobody can

william james, famous philosopher/psychologist.....is well known for the fact that he willed himself out of a severe depression.

Maybe he drank sperm?