Author Topic: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!  (Read 5275 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 07:21:02 AM »
You thinking big business is all innocent is just disgusting.  Why don't we talk about how these unions wouldn't even exist or wouldn't stand a chance at existing IF BUSINESS COMPENSTATED WORKERS FAIRLY.  Business brought the problems that gave power to unions in the first place.  Love to see you deny this so we can see a little more of your true colors.  And what's the first thing business would do without a union threat out there?  You're a fool if you think they wouldn't slowly chop and whittle away at anything resembling fair compensation.  I know unions have their own corruptions but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

What is a "fair wage"??? 

 

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 07:25:36 AM »
Unions artificially manipulate wages above what the market dictates. Unions are for losers who blame others for their lack of an education and other personal shortcomings. It must suck to rely on other to provide. But it also must be nice to blame others for your lack of good fortune.

garebear

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 07:26:44 AM »
And everyone says I dont know what I'm talking about. 

This entire fiasco is going to get very ugly very fast. 

Do you mean like death threats against elected officials and brownshirt rallies at town hall meetings?

That type of ugly?
G

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 07:46:08 AM »
Do you mean like death threats against elected officials and brownshirt rallies at town hall meetings?

That type of ugly?

Yes.  And the brownshirts are those SEIU punks sent by the WH. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2009, 08:13:12 AM »
What is a "fair wage"??? 

 
What is a fair wage to business and what would be the change in that answer 5, 10, 15 years down the road with no union or collective barganing abilities?  That's the real question bubba and you're delusional if you paint a pretty picture for the workers.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2009, 08:15:47 AM »
And everyone says I dont know what I'm talking about. 
oh yea, lol at this comment; dude, you tell that to others here more than anyone.  You've included it in quite a few of your posts.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2009, 08:28:54 AM »
It's no wonder I stay out of threads like this.   :D

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2009, 08:30:07 AM »
What is a fair wage to business and what would be the change in that answer 5, 10, 15 years down the road with no union or collective barganing abilities?  That's the real question bubba and you're delusional if you paint a pretty picture for the workers.

Do you want the truth or do you want feel good nonsense?

The reality is that a worker who does not add value or skills cannot expect automatic raises just because of time spent there.    

In private business, certain jobs have a certain values placed on them and thats that.  For example - a assistant secretary is never going to make 100k a year, whether shes been there for 1 year or 100 years.  Private business, unlike the govt, is accountable to reality.    

Second, if you want another culprit, look at the devaluation of the dollar.  We dont have nearly the same purcahsing power and the same wages do not go as far.  But guess what?  Most small businesses do not make huges amounts of money and cant afford to keep increasing wages to offset the inflation and destruction of the dollar.      

If a person wants higher wages, they have to improve their skills and/or become indespensible to the business where they work.

Or, they can always form their own business, pay themselves what they believe is a "fair wage" and stop crying about "the man".  

Decker

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2009, 08:32:23 AM »
Unions artificially manipulate wages above what the market dictates. Unions are for losers who blame others for their lack of an education and other personal shortcomings. It must suck to rely on other to provide. But it also must be nice to blame others for your lack of good fortune.
Unions bargain with management.  Bargaining means negotiation.

Where is it written that market considerations are excluded from bargaining?

Sounds like more rightwing pablum to me.

As for your other comments....good luck.

BM OUT

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2009, 08:40:21 AM »
Unions bargain with management.  Bargaining means negotiation.

Where is it written that market considerations are excluded from bargaining?

Sounds like more rightwing pablum to me.

As for your other comments....good luck.

Unions are crap!!!I dont need a fucking union negotiating my wage or benefits for me.I also resent ANYONE stealing my money by forcing me to join something I hate,then sending my money to a scum bag like Obama.Thanks,but no thanks.I left both the teamsters and AFL-CIO and have never been happier I did.

BM OUT

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2009, 08:41:40 AM »
You thinking big business is all innocent is just disgusting.  Why don't we talk about how these unions wouldn't even exist or wouldn't stand a chance at existing IF BUSINESS COMPENSTATED WORKERS FAIRLY.  Business brought the problems that gave power to unions in the first place.  Love to see you deny this so we can see a little more of your true colors.  And what's the first thing business would do without a union threat out there?  You're a fool if you think they wouldn't slowly chop and whittle away at anything resembling fair compensation.  I know unions have their own corruptions but that's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

If you dont like it,here is an idea.START YOUR OWN BUISINESS!!!!

Decker

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2009, 08:52:12 AM »
Unions are crap!!!I dont need a fucking union negotiating my wage or benefits for me.I also resent ANYONE stealing my money by forcing me to join something I hate,then sending my money to a scum bag like Obama.Thanks,but no thanks.I left both the teamsters and AFL-CIO and have never been happier I did.
Good for you!

It's a free country.

Live the dream.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2009, 10:56:02 AM »
If you dont like it,here is an idea.START YOUR OWN BUISINESS!!!!
WTF?  How is this a reply to my post?  I've been happily self employed since 2000, thanks for asking I guess.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2009, 10:57:12 AM »
Do you want the truth or do you want feel good nonsense?

The reality is that a worker who does not add value or skills cannot expect automatic raises just because of time spent there.    

In private business, certain jobs have a certain values placed on them and thats that.  For example - a assistant secretary is never going to make 100k a year, whether shes been there for 1 year or 100 years.  Private business, unlike the govt, is accountable to reality.    

Second, if you want another culprit, look at the devaluation of the dollar.  We dont have nearly the same purcahsing power and the same wages do not go as far.  But guess what?  Most small businesses do not make huges amounts of money and cant afford to keep increasing wages to offset the inflation and destruction of the dollar.      

If a person wants higher wages, they have to improve their skills and/or become indespensible to the business where they work.

Or, they can always form their own business, pay themselves what they believe is a "fair wage" and stop crying about "the man".  
you amaze me... I think you gave me option 3, "bla bla bla... bla bla... bla bla bla..."

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2009, 11:05:47 AM »
you amaze me... I think you gave me option 3, "bla bla bla... bla bla... bla bla bla..."

I work for myself too, and started my own business because I refuse to be part of the corporate cog myself.  I employ two people.  They get a wage, but they get good bonuses for good results.  They produce, they get rewarded.  Thats how it is. 

 

 


BM OUT

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2009, 11:18:27 AM »
WTF?  How is this a reply to my post?  I've been happily self employed since 2000, thanks for asking I guess.

If some employee doesnt like the wages his company pays and wants a union in there to get him a better wage.Why not just leave,start your own company and then YOU can pay what you want.Companies pay what they think they can afford to pay and still make a profit.Unions dont give a flying fuck if the company makes money or not.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2009, 11:22:35 AM »
I work for myself too, and started my own business because I refuse to be part of the corporate cog myself.  I employ two people.  They get a wage, but they get good bonuses for good results.  They produce, they get rewarded.  Thats how it is. 

 

 


you really can't address what we're talking about then from the business perspective.  You're a small business with 2 employees.  I don't think it's even possible for you to have a union threat.  I mean 2 employees man, they're either going to work for you or not and everything is solidly on the table from day one.  both parties know the score.  There's not really any room for some assholes 4 states away to fuck them over in their jobs.  What would you do if your two came to you and said they voted a union in... haha... oh brother...  You certainly can't talk to us here from a perspective of a big business that employs many people.  I know you think you're all that and I'm happy you make over 250,000 but jesus, get over yourself man...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2009, 11:26:34 AM »
you really can't address what we're talking about then from the business perspective.  You're a small business with 2 employees.  I don't think it's even possible for you to have a union threat.  I mean 2 employees man, they're either going to work for you or not and everything is solidly on the table from day one.  both parties know the score.  There's not really any room for some assholes 4 states away to fuck them over in their jobs.  What would you do if your two came to you and said they voted a union in... haha... oh brother...  You certainly can't talk to us here from a perspective of a big business that employs many people.  I know you think you're all that and I'm happy you make over 250,000 but jesus, get over yourself man...

Most of my buisness clients fall under these issues. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2009, 11:34:28 AM »
Most of my business clients fall under these issues. 
under what issues?  Union?  Look, I'm right, big business is entirely responsible for the birth and rise of unions.  If they want someone to blame, they need only look in a mirror.  What makes you so sure that over time, with no collective bargaining, things wouldn't return to the atmosphere for workers that created unions in the first place?  I would say, you could say, government, but that's a joke since a bulk of politicians on both sides are controlled by big business and likely will be for the forseeable future.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2009, 11:38:44 AM »
under what issues?  Union?  Look, I'm right, big business is entirely responsible for the birth and rise of unions.  If they want someone to blame, they need only look in a mirror.  What makes you so sure that over time, with no collective bargaining, things wouldn't return to the atmosphere for workers that created unions in the first place?  I would say, you could say, government, but that's a joke since a bulk of politicians on both sides are controlled by big business and likely will be for the forseeable future.

Hugo - the devaluation and undermining of the dollar also has a huge impact ehre which I dont think you are taking into account. 

A person now needs to make a much larger wage just to keep pace because his paycheck does not go as far. 

However, while you can force businesses to pay certain levels of wages, you cant force businesses to make a certain amount of money in the marketplace. 

Im not talking about huge businesses, but your run of the mill small to medium sized business that itself is under pressure through the dollars' devaluation and loss of purchasing power.     

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2009, 11:47:08 AM »
Hugo - the devaluation and undermining of the dollar also has a huge impact ehre which I dont think you are taking into account. 

A person now needs to make a much larger wage just to keep pace because his paycheck does not go as far. 

However, while you can force businesses to pay certain levels of wages, you cant force businesses to make a certain amount of money in the marketplace. 

Im not talking about huge businesses, but your run of the mill small to medium sized business that itself is under pressure through the dollars' devaluation and loss of purchasing power.     
you're clearly not on the same page as me.  I don't know if you're doing it on purpose to avoid debate or you're just clueless?  This is yet another strange reply to what I posted.  I guess you don't want to address the points I make and instead toss a red herring into the mix.  seriously, this is your reply to my post?  really?  Do you understand the concept of what I'm saying?  If so please explain what I'm saying in your words and then tell me how this reply addesses that?  That way I can know if you get what I'm saying or you're avoiding what I'm saying or you just want to focus on what you want to say.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2009, 12:01:50 PM »
you're clearly not on the same page as me.  I don't know if you're doing it on purpose to avoid debate or you're just clueless?  This is yet another strange reply to what I posted.  I guess you don't want to address the points I make and instead toss a red herring into the mix.  seriously, this is your reply to my post?  really?  Do you understand the concept of what I'm saying?  If so please explain what I'm saying in your words and then tell me how this reply addesses that?  That way I can know if you get what I'm saying or you're avoiding what I'm saying or you just want to focus on what you want to say.

I agree with you that the robber baron tactics and child labor situation gave rise to the union movement. 

It was not a red herring I said to you.  You said that unions demand "fair wages".  The reason their present wages are not sufficient is not ewntirely he fault of the evil company that employs them, but the fact that their present wage does not go as far as it used to. 

What I am telling you is that they are only looking at half of the equation, and often times the wrong half.   

 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2009, 12:10:18 PM »
I agree with you that the robber baron tactics and child labor situation gave rise to the union movement. 

It was not a red herring I said to you.  You said that unions demand "fair wages".  The reason their present wages are not sufficient is not ewntirely he fault of the evil company that employs them, but the fact that their present wage does not go as far as it used to. 

What I am telling you is that they are only looking at half of the equation, and often times the wrong half.   

 
Let me just ask you one question at a time:

1st thing I want to know:  Do you think that Unions should have never been created?  Just do me a favor and directly answer that question and explain why.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2009, 12:13:17 PM »
Let me just ask you one question at a time:

1st thing I want to know:  Do you think that Unions should have never been created?  Just do me a favor and directly answer that question and explain why.

In a theorectical sense no.  In a practical sense, yes. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Obama Calls Out the Union Thugs to Directly Engage Protesters!
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2009, 12:26:57 PM »
In a theorectical sense no.  In a practical sense, yes. 
I assume then that you support the creation of unions siding for the practical over theory, correct me if I'm wrong.  ok, second question:  At what point in American History would it have been practical for you to end the practice of unions?  Keep in mind with this question that we have a government TODAY that works more for the corporations than it does for the citizens.  I don't even think you would argue against that.