what am i doing wrong? trying to gain muscle mass and yet......

[Tom]

hi everyone! just turned 45 today Yikes! lol! anyway been working out since march doing the 3 times a week, monday, wednesday, friday full body workout routines, changing up the exercises every month or so, about 2 more weeks of this then going to go to the 4 day a week workout like on monday and thursday: chest, shoulders, biceps and tuesday, and friday: back, triceps and legs. or something like that. anyway....

started back in march about 225 with 23 % bodyfat. bad i know! well i hadn't worked out at all for a couple of years. the goal is to obviously like everyone else get bigger and more muscle mass and lower the bodyfat.

ultimate goal to get to 235 to 250 with hovering around 10 %bodyfat or so (would love it to get down to 8 % year round!)

anyway the problem i'm having is that after 5 months i'm still pretty much the same weight?! although i think the bodyfat has gone down a bit? but it's getting frustrating...

that i can't gain any more weight or much more muscle mass that i should by now, yet i still have a pooch to my gut although i'm doing cardio 3 times a week for 25 to 30 minutes (usually 5 to 10 minutes of hard fast stair climbing machine work, followed by slight incline walking on the treadmill) followed by ab work.

i know it's hard to gain alot of muscle mass and only have a minimum of that bodyweight be fat, and at the same time i'm trying to lose the bodyfat (on my gut) that i started with at the same time?!

a trainer told me" it's easier and faster to lose weight, and see definition and gain some muscle, then trying to pack on size and lose your gut at the same time and told me that don't worry about your gut right now, as long as it's not getting bigger and doesn't get gigantic, just keep on eating like a horse, work out like a mad man and eventually you'll gain alot of muscle mass and size and slowly but surely your body fat will go down as my body slowly changes itself from bodyfat to muscle, it will just take more time than if you just wanted to lose some weight and get just a bit of muscle and see your 6 pack?

does this make sense? should i just keep eating tons of food ( good clean food) and perhaps up my cardio a bit or up my ab work?

of course, i'm also afraid of the dreaded loss of muscle due to over use of cardio. as it is right now, my legs for instance have alot of definition but no size? that's always been the case though from playing years of sports, perhaps i need to ease of the stair climbing machine? perhaps with that and when i increase the number of exercises and sets that i will start on soon i'll start to see some leg size, as it is with my full body workout routine, i'm only doing 3 sets of squats and 3 sets of straight leg dead lifts for my legs and that's it?

now, i will truthfully admit my diet isn't spot on, i don't eat what i should and how much every day, so perhaps that is the biggest fault i'm having?

so basically i'm stuck at for the past 5 months same bodyweight, perhaps a bit of change of bodyfat turned into muscle but nowhere as much as i thought i should have by now, still a bit of a pooch in my gut, and my legs are the most defined part of my body, but no size whatsoever?

sorry to go on and on, but what to do?

[dyslexic]

Hmmm...


make a choice: 1) cut or 2) bulk
                     

If you are not 'chemically enhanced' doing both at the same time is nearly impossible. Bulking (the right way) requires a positive caloric balance and 'cutting' requires a negative caloric balance.

Two entirely different objectives.

If I were you, I would continue with the weights and hit em hard, increase the cardio, and totally clean up the diet.

Cut out the junk food, alcohol, soda, chips, etc, etc.

Get a bodyfat scale and start tracking your weightloss and start tracking your calories. It helps to take the guesswork out of everything. At your age and at your size (225 @ 23% bodyfat)- I would concentrate on getting that weight (bodyfat) down.

225 x 23% = 51.75lbs of fat.

225 x 10% = 22 lbs. fat

For the goals you mentioned, you would have to lose around 25lbs. of fat and gain 35-45 lbs. of muscle (you stated 235-250 @ 10- 8%)

I think those goals are unrealistic. Not unobtainable, but unrealistic, and since we are trying to deal with reality, I think it would be much more realistic to try and maintain whatever muscle you have (possibly gain a little) and concentrate on losing the bodyfat.

Once you lose the bodyfat, you will assess your weight, which may very well be around 190 lbs @12% (being realistic)-

If you are happy with what you see, then you can ask yourself: "How realistic will it be for me to be 250 @ 8%?

Ideally, a Pro bodybuilder would be ecstatic to be running around at 250 and 8% bodyfat... but NOT 'year-round'

Just my opinion

[mitchyboy]

Hmmm, lots of things wrong i can see here. First, your goals are way out of wack. Like was said 250 at 8% is more than alot of ibbf pros are carrying. Second, you say your diet if iffy, witch leads 1 to belive its utter garbage. I dont wanna be rude just truthfull. Third, loseing fat and gaining a substantial amount of muscle at the same time is nearly imposible without " assistance". Fourth, muscle turning to fat and vise versa is a lot of hogwash. How tall are you and what is your streanth goal. That is a much better measure of progress if you ask me. If you stick with it you will i promise see results. It may take a bit longer then you expect but thats ok good luck.

[Crider]

Hmmm...


make a choice: 1) cut or 2) bulk
                     

If you are not 'chemically enhanced' doing both at the same time is nearly impossible. Bulking (the right way) requires a positive caloric balance and 'cutting' requires a negative caloric balance.

Two entirely different objectives.

If I were you, I would continue with the weights and hit em hard, increase the cardio, and totally clean up the diet.

Cut out the junk food, alcohol, soda, chips, etc, etc.

Get a bodyfat scale and start tracking your weightloss and start tracking your calories. It helps to take the guesswork out of everything. At your age and at your size (225 @ 23% bodyfat)- I would concentrate on getting that weight (bodyfat) down.

225 x 23% = 51.75lbs of fat.

225 x 10% = 22 lbs. fat

For the goals you mentioned, you would have to lose around 25lbs. of fat and gain 35-45 lbs. of muscle (you stated 235-250 @ 10- 8%)

I think those goals are unrealistic. Not unobtainable, but unrealistic, and since we are trying to deal with reality, I think it would be much more realistic to try and maintain whatever muscle you have (possibly gain a little) and concentrate on losing the bodyfat.

Once you lose the bodyfat, you will assess your weight, which may very well be around 190 lbs @12% (being realistic)-

If you are happy with what you see, then you can ask yourself: "How realistic will it be for me to be 250 @ 8%?

Ideally, a Pro bodybuilder would be ecstatic to be running around at 250 and 8% bodyfat... but NOT 'year-round'

Just my opinion

Ok so based off of this I think I have been way out of wack for the last 2 months.  I'm just now getting my account activated on here, but have been awaiting activation and reading posts and training logs for the past month.

I'm currently, 30 years old 5' 11" @ 150 lbs (yes I know way underweight, that's why I'm here  )  and using a bf scale I'm sitting at between 12 and 15% bf depending on the day.  I was trying to get that down to 10% and at the same time push my weight up to 180.  But basically what your saying is to concentrate on one first, in my case to get my weight up then to cut fat to 10%.

BTW Tom...good luck on getting your goals.  From what Ihave seen on here there are a lot of people with years of knowledge to share!

[dyslexic]

I know your'e hungry Beavis, but ya gotta be patient too. Get books. Spend days in the bookstores with a good cup of coffee and read, read, read. Educate yourself. Become knowledgeable. Use yourself to aquire emperical data. You are your own best Guinea pig.

Your reading in combination with this forum will help you travel "as the crow flies"

You wanna grow FAST, but in reality, it's a slow process (if you do it the RIGHT way)

[Viking11]

Really good advice in this thread. Nice to some sanity in the sport- its a bit weird to find it on GetBig though, lol. I do think that the OP should shed some of the excess, then go on a serious buiulding phase.  Too much fat when you're starting hinders motivation in my opinion. When you're a bit leaner, you can see muscle more clearly, especially when you're training and I find that more motivating and fun .

[WiseGuy]

hi everyone! just turned 45 today Yikes! lol! anyway been working out since march doing the 3 times a week, monday, wednesday, friday full body workout routines, changing up the exercises every month or so, about 2 more weeks of this then going to go to the 4 day a week workout like on monday and thursday: chest, shoulders, biceps and tuesday, and friday: back, triceps and legs. or something like that. anyway....

started back in march about 225 with 23 % bodyfat. bad i know! well i hadn't worked out at all for a couple of years. the goal is to obviously like everyone else get bigger and more muscle mass and lower the bodyfat.

ultimate goal to get to 235 to 250 with hovering around 10 %bodyfat or so (would love it to get down to 8 % year round!)

anyway the problem i'm having is that after 5 months i'm still pretty much the same weight?! although i think the bodyfat has gone down a bit? but it's getting frustrating...

that i can't gain any more weight or much more muscle mass that i should by now, yet i still have a pooch to my gut although i'm doing cardio 3 times a week for 25 to 30 minutes (usually 5 to 10 minutes of hard fast stair climbing machine work, followed by slight incline walking on the treadmill) followed by ab work.

i know it's hard to gain alot of muscle mass and only have a minimum of that bodyweight be fat, and at the same time i'm trying to lose the bodyfat (on my gut) that i started with at the same time?!

a trainer told me" it's easier and faster to lose weight, and see definition and gain some muscle, then trying to pack on size and lose your gut at the same time and told me that don't worry about your gut right now, as long as it's not getting bigger and doesn't get gigantic, just keep on eating like a horse, work out like a mad man and eventually you'll gain alot of muscle mass and size and slowly but surely your body fat will go down as my body slowly changes itself from bodyfat to muscle, it will just take more time than if you just wanted to lose some weight and get just a bit of muscle and see your 6 pack?

does this make sense? should i just keep eating tons of food ( good clean food) and perhaps up my cardio a bit or up my ab work?

of course, i'm also afraid of the dreaded loss of muscle due to over use of cardio. as it is right now, my legs for instance have alot of definition but no size? that's always been the case though from playing years of sports, perhaps i need to ease of the stair climbing machine? perhaps with that and when i increase the number of exercises and sets that i will start on soon i'll start to see some leg size, as it is with my full body workout routine, i'm only doing 3 sets of squats and 3 sets of straight leg dead lifts for my legs and that's it?

now, i will truthfully admit my diet isn't spot on, i don't eat what i should and how much every day, so perhaps that is the biggest fault i'm having?

so basically i'm stuck at for the past 5 months same bodyweight, perhaps a bit of change of bodyfat turned into muscle but nowhere as much as i thought i should have by now, still a bit of a pooch in my gut, and my legs are the most defined part of my body, but no size whatsoever?

sorry to go on and on, but what to do?

You admit yourself your diet isn't "spot on" which is usually the main reason people fail to reach their goal in this type of situation. I myself am 39 yrs old, 6-3 and weigh around 210 at a bodyfat  of 10%. I used to weigh nearly 400 pounds back in 2000 and I can tell you how I lost it.

What you eat means everything and if you cannot stick to a diet then go no further. If your the type to eat ok during the week and let loose like most during the weekend, it explains why you are still in the same shape as when you begun. With that said to get leaner you need to up your protein intake, lower carbs and increase healthy fats.

Here is a typical example of what I eat on a given day:

meal 1 protein smoothie, 50 plus grams protein, 2 bananas, scoop of p-butter, water and ice

meal 2 6 egg scramble w/ sliced tomato's and salsa, 1 bottle water 2 fish oil caps

meal 3 Pre-workout, protein drink  w/handful of almonds

meal 4 Post workout, protein drink, then a huge turkey sandwich on low carb bread, 1 bottle water, 2 fish oil caps

meal 5 dinner - some type of meat (chicken or fish) w/  huge salad (olive oil dressing) and water 2 fish oil caps, multi, Vt's: C & E

Meal 6 Before bed - either cottage cheese, or protein drink


As for your workouts, you are going to have do alot more than 3 times per week whole body workouts. Try this instead:

Day 1 chest, abs & 30 min.  cardio
Day 2 Back, calves & 30 min.  cardio
Day 3 off
Day 4 Biceps/Triceps & 30 min. cardio
Day 5 Shoulders & 30 min. cardio
Day 6 off
Day 7 Quads/hams & 30 minutes cardio
Day 8 off

Repeat cycle

Notes:

Each bodypart should get 2-3 exercises of 3-4 working sets not to include warm-up sets. The name of the game is intensity, not heaving massive weights, so make sure each set ends in failure(failure at the 10 rep mark) and I believe it is ok to add drop sets also into the mix, for you say on your last set of each exercise.

Make sure you stretch the muscle you are working between every set as well. Also rest no longer than 1 minute between sets, get in the habit of working quick from set to set, exercise to exercise, so that the weight workout itself is helping carve fat off your body even before you start your cardio

Cardio:Do not make the mistake most make in the gym while doing cardio and that is doing your entire workout at one level. There isn't any better way to waste your time than doing that, you should be doing intervals so a typical 30 minute cardio session would look like this:

Example

minute       Level
1             6
2             8
3             10
4             12
5             14
6              6
7              8
8             10
9             12
10            14
 
Notes:

Repeat cycle 2 more times for a total of 30 minutes. As you can see you are never working at the same level for the entire session, you build up to a high point and take it back down to then go back up again. You'll burn much more fat like this. Also allow yourself 1 cheat meal per week, eat whatever you like. This will keep your metabolism humming right along, I did this throughout my weight loss.

You'll notice my workout scheme does not follow a Monday - Sunday, 7 day type of typical schedule and for good reason. You should never design a program a work schedule or allows for the weekend off as I believe this sets you up for failure. Too many people see the weekend as a time to let loose and as a result , never reach their goals. The program is designed to allow you to push yourself to the limit in EVERY workout, while allowing you the proper rest.

Keep in mind that you should be getting a minimum of 8 hrs sleep per night. You grow and recover when you sleep, not in the gym and if you have to give up watching the idiot box(TV) then so be it to get those 8 hrs of sleep per night. I know I may sound obsessive, but it works.



Try it and let me know how you do. Once you have "leaned out" we can then talk about adding in some "good carbs" to your diet to  as well as cutting the cardio back some and changing your workout program to build muscle.

Good Luck


  

[The ChemistV2]

You admit yourself your diet isn't "spot on" which is usually the main reason people fail to reach their goal in this type of situation. I myself am 39 yrs old, 6-3 and weigh around 210 at a bodyfat  of 10%. I used to weigh nearly 400 pounds back in 2000 and I can tell you how I lost it.

What you eat means everything and if you cannot stick to a diet then go no further. If your the type to eat ok during the week and let loose like most during the weekend, it explains why you are still in the same shape as when you begun. With that said to get leaner you need to up your protein intake, lower carbs and increase healthy fats.

Here is a typical example of what I eat on a given day:

meal 1 protein smoothie, 50 plus grams protein, 2 bananas, scoop of p-butter, water and ice

meal 2 6 egg scramble w/ sliced tomato's and salsa, 1 bottle water 2 fish oil caps

meal 3 Pre-workout, protein drink  w/handful of almonds

meal 4 Post workout, protein drink, then a huge turkey sandwich on low carb bread, 1 bottle water, 2 fish oil caps

meal 5 dinner - some type of meat (chicken or fish) w/  huge salad (olive oil dressing) and water 2 fish oil caps, multi, Vt's: C & E

Meal 6 Before bed - either cottage cheese, or protein drink


As for your workouts, you are going to have do alot more than 3 times per week whole body workouts. Try this instead:

Day 1 chest, abs & 30 min.  cardio
Day 2 Back, calves & 30 min.  cardio
Day 3 off
Day 4 Biceps/Triceps & 30 min. cardio
Day 5 Shoulders & 30 min. cardio
Day 6 off
Day 7 Quads/hams & 30 minutes cardio
Day 8 off

Repeat cycle

Notes:

Each bodypart should get 2-3 exercises of 3-4 working sets not to include warm-up sets. The name of the game is intensity, not heaving massive weights, so make sure each set ends in failure(failure at the 10 rep mark) and I believe it is ok to add drop sets also into the mix, for you say on your last set of each exercise.

Make sure you stretch the muscle you are working between every set as well. Also rest no longer than 1 minute between sets, get in the habit of working quick from set to set, exercise to exercise, so that the weight workout itself is helping carve fat off your body even before you start your cardio

Cardio:Do not make the mistake most make in the gym while doing cardio and that is doing your entire workout at one level. There isn't any better way to waste your time than doing that, you should be doing intervals so a typical 30 minute cardio session would look like this:

Example

minute       Level
1             6
2             8
3             10
4             12
5             14
6              6
7              8
8             10
9             12
10            14
 
Notes:

Repeat cycle 2 more times for a total of 30 minutes. As you can see you are never working at the same level for the entire session, you build up to a high point and take it back down to then go back up again. You'll burn much more fat like this. Also allow yourself 1 cheat meal per week, eat whatever you like. This will keep your metabolism humming right along, I did this throughout my weight loss.

You'll notice my workout scheme does not follow a Monday - Sunday, 7 day type of typical schedule and for good reason. You should never design a program a work schedule or allows for the weekend off as I believe this sets you up for failure. Too many people see the weekend as a time to let loose and as a result , never reach their goals. The program is designed to allow you to push yourself to the limit in EVERY workout, while allowing you the proper rest.

Keep in mind that you should be getting a minimum of 8 hrs sleep per night. You grow and recover when you sleep, not in the gym and if you have to give up watching the idiot box(TV) then so be it to get those 8 hrs of sleep per night. I know I may sound obsessive, but it works.



Try it and let me know how you do. Once you have "leaned out" we can then talk about adding in some "good carbs" to your diet to  as well as cutting the cardio back some and changing your workout program to build muscle.

Good Luck


  

Wow. You just proved there are some decent, considerate guys on this board willing to help someone. Congrats on your weight loss and having the discipline to follow through with your diet and exercise.

[ty]

Hi,

Mostly a lurker here but this thread hit me because I can identify.

Hate to say it but I think your expectation are totally unrealistic.  First of all, at your age, it would be hard to lose fat fast and gain muscle (and probably next to impossible to do at the same time without some chemical help).  Believe me, I'm 41 now and feel your pain in this, two years ago, I set out to do something similar (although a bit less extravagant).  At 5'7", I was a bit over 200, probably around 15-20% bodyfat (an estimate as I never took it), my goal was to shed the fat, keep my all my muscles and try to look like the MMA fighter George St Pierre by my 40th b-day.  But reality was, my body didn't react to exercise and diet like I did when I was in my 20's and to a lesser extent, my 30's when I could get in shape fast.  So I arrived at my 40th b-day a bit disappointed but the reality was, I did shed a lot of fat and also some muscles.  Unavoidable?  Maybe, maybe not, maybe my training program wasn't the best (concentrated on the big lifts like squats, deads, cleans, rows, chins, presses, HIIT cardio and a Zone type diet) but I still don't think it's realistic to drop a lot of bodyfat and gain a lot of muscles.  And the thing is, I started to look so much better and feel much better that I didn't care that I was a lot smaller, I'm still a lot stronger than the average male (which admittedly isn't that big a deal considering how out of shape most Americans are) and my cardio conditioning is through the roof, almost as good as when I was 20 which is very satisfying.

My advice, concentrate on just losing the bodyfat while preserving as much muscles as possible.  You get down to around 10% when you can see your abs, maybe getting to 250 lbs at 8% bodyfat won't seem as important to you anymore just like looking like George St Pierre isn't important to me anymore.  If you can get your bodyfat down that low and then get your body back up to around 210 lbs, you will be a decent sized dude (unless you're 7 feet tall then you're Manute Bol)

[WiseGuy]

Wow. You just proved there are some decent, considerate guys on this board willing to help someone. Congrats on your weight loss and having the discipline to follow through with your diet and exercise.

Thank you, it is the least I can do by trying to help, even though I am far from an expert.