Author Topic: Draper on drugs - from ironage.us (Read 14185 times)

bigdumbbell · « **Reply #51 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:24:34 PM »

some of those old men look hot

TechnoViking · « **Reply #52 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:31:00 PM »

Quote from: Figo on September 04, 2009, 04:00:18 AM

FROM IRON AGE

Nice honest answer given by one of the greats of the game, and a really good guy, Dave Draper, in his current newsletter when asked about gear:

Q: You've written pretty adamantly against steroid use for
recreational lifters. When you were taking them, what did a
doctor's-supervised cycle consist of? Would competitors use them
year-round or only pre-contest? Pros today seem to have a "more is
better" philosophy, but was it like that in the '60s and '70s?

A: I know as much about steroids as the captain of Primrose High's
Varsity Debating Team (Yeah, right). However, let me take a wild stab
after some reference to the skeletal archives. In the period between
1965 and 1970, I just betcha a reasonable outline would consist of a
12-week cycle of Durabolin injectable (1 cc per week), plus Winstrol
or Anavar or Dianabol in pill form (4-6 tabs a day). Levels would be
higher or lower, according to results, or need, or the rascal's
daring, carefree-ness, ignorance, innocence, desperation, madness,
ingredient availability, ego, mood and so forth.

Every six weeks during the non-competition season, a short and light
cycle might be engaged to sustain muscle and strength and ingredient
effectiveness.

I don't have the slightest clue what the bodybuilders are involved in
today. I haven't cracked a muscle mag since Lee Haney was on a cover
in 1990. I thumbed through the pages. Wow... Cool... Far out... You
know how it is. I just know the concoctions have become exceedingly
generous and complicated, outrageously expensive, immensely effective,
not exactly law-abiding and questionably healthy and possibly deadly.

Today's pros are a subculture amid a subculture in a wild and crazy
world."

Thats not Lee Priest's steroid cycle

doison · « **Reply #53 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:05:57 PM »

Back then 1/2 tab of d-bol every third day was considered extreme. They actually had a meeting at Gold's gym where it was debated if upping the maximum dose to 1/2 tab of d-bol every other day would be suicide.
Draper's generation was nothing but hard work. They're so much better than today's bodybuilders, just ask them, they'll tell you.

LATS · « **Reply #54 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:16:27 PM »

pumpster.. coming from a family who has had their share of "addictive" personality disorders you are mistaken.. that is why if one leaves rehab for meth abuse, or coke ect they are told no more alc either.. nothing that can cause harm because a addictive personality is just that.. that take things to extreme.. whether it is drugs or other endevors..

now i dont know any more about draper and what he did or did not do as you do.. but to assume he is telling the truth is gullible.. most if not all guys underscore their anabolic use.. they will tell ya one amount but almost certainly it is a bit higher.. why? they dont want the anabolics to get credit for their physique or hard work.. the ironage guys are no different.. but if draper is admitting to 30 mgs of dbol and a injectable i am willing to bet he ventured higher.. i dont know what draper did personally.. and you dont either.. we both are just guessing..

WillGrant · « **Reply #55 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:26:25 PM »

Quote from: doison on September 05, 2009, 06:05:57 PM

Back then 1/2 tab of d-bol every third day was considered extreme. They actually had a meeting at Gold's gym where it was debated if upping the maximum dose to 1/2 tab of d-bol every other day would be suicide.
Draper's generation was nothing but hard work. They're so much better than today's bodybuilders, just ask them, they'll tell you.

It was actualy one tab a day , the meeting was held at Girondas Gym and it was being debated to see if it would be safe to raise to two a day..

Most of those guys were all ready using 10 plus a day anyway so it was quite a farcial meeting to say the least.

doison · « **Reply #56 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:13:10 AM »

Quote from: WillGrant on September 05, 2009, 06:26:25 PM

It was actualy one tab a day , the meeting was held at Girondas Gym and it was being debated to see if it would be safe to raise to two a day..

Most of those guys were all ready using 10 plus a day anyway so it was quite a farcial meeting to say the least.

I understand that sarcasm is slightly harder to detect when in written form, but I'm afraid I can't give you a pass on this one.

In case you're still confused....I was being sarcastic with my post, sort of like if I were to say that you're a real Ed Witten.

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:32:39 AM »

The common theme on this board is "I use over a gram of test a week...and still look like I barely train..so any of the guys in the 60's like Larry Scott who used well under 50 mg of D-bol a day and looked twice as impressive as I'll ever be.. are God damned liars!!"

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #58 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:01:58 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on September 06, 2009, 10:32:39 AM

The common theme on this board is "I use over a gram of test a week...and still look like I barely train..so any of the guys in the 60's like Larry Scott who used well under 50 mg of D-bol a day and looked twice as impressive as I'll ever be.. are God damned liars!!"

Perhaps some are insecure, but Draper is not completely honest. He is reluctant to talk about it obviously. Maybe he's insecure, maybe he doesn't want drugs to take any credit for his physique, like LATS said. Does he look natural in the pic posted to you? Had he been honest he would've said something like, "In the 60s I cycled steroids, mostly used Durabolin with an oral. In the 70s I was whacked out of my mind on angel dust and booze and can't remember how much I used exactly.

I kept using steroids and am still on them to this day. These days it's testosterone with some GH and I don't go off, what's the use at my age? I love steroids - they allow me to feel and look great. I have many decades worth of steroid use under my belt and know a lot about their application".

Instead he's reluctant and acts like he doesn't remember - like it was a youthful indiscretion only.

pumpster · « **Reply #59 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:09:50 PM »

Quote from: LATS on September 05, 2009, 06:16:27 PM

.. but to assume he is telling the truth is gullible.... we both are just guessing..

Quote

Perhaps some are insecure, but Draper is not completely honest. He is reluctant to talk about it obviously. Maybe he's insecure, maybe he doesn't want drugs to take any credit for his physique

He's being fairly forthright actually, saying what drugs he used and doses that weren't insignificant.

That's my point, it's just as guillible to assume he's not honest.

30 mg. a day, sometimes higher, that's entirely believable when coupled with an injectible.

An addict's not going to be addicted to everything consumed, that's a blanket assumption.

pumpster · « **Reply #60 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:12:55 PM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on September 06, 2009, 12:01:58 PM

"In the 60s I cycled steroids, mostly used Durabolin with an oral. In the 70s I was whacked out of my mind on angel dust and booze and can't remember how much I used exactly.

Actually that's about the gist of what he said, that he used durabolin with an oral. Maybe you have to reread. He also said that for various reason he's sometimes go above the numbers he mentioned as the norm.

As far as the drug abuse, you nor i have any idea if he was even lifting during the worst episodes therefore stop assuming he bumped up the intake during those times.

No proof he's still using, doesn't appear to be from what i could see a few years ago nor would it be consistent with his lifestyle now, IMO.

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #61 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:13:33 PM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on September 06, 2009, 12:01:58 PM

Perhaps some are insecure, but Draper is not completely honest. He is reluctant to talk about it obviously. Maybe he's insecure, maybe he doesn't want drugs to take any credit for his physique, like LATS said. Does he look natural in the pic posted to you? Had he been honest he would've said something like, "In the 60s I cycled steroids, mostly used Durabolin with an oral. In the 70s I was whacked out of my mind on angel dust and booze and can't remember how much I used exactly. I kept using steroids and am still on them to this day. These days it's testosterone with some GH and I don't go off, what's the use at my age? I love steroids - they allow me to feel and look great. I have many decades worth of steroid use under my belt and know a lot about their application".

Instead he's reluctant and acts like he doesn't remember - like it was a youthful indiscretion only.

Have to agree with you there about Draper. I was with a friend of mine when I was 16 at the 1978 Mr. Olympia. My friend starts talking to Draper and asked him what he thought about steroids, and Draper said "I think they're great. Been taking them for years." Guess he was honest then. Having said that, I do believe Larry Scott and several others only used moderate doses of d-bol..but due to their work ethic and maybe genetics looked a lot better than your average- gram of test ,deca at 600 mg, insulin using, gym rat.

tbombz · « **Reply #62 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:17:01 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on September 06, 2009, 12:13:33 PM

Have to agree with you there about Draper. I was with a friend of mine when I was 16 at the 1978 Mr. Olympia. My friend starts talking to Draper and asked him what he thought about steroids, and Draper said "I think they're great. Been taking them for years." Guess he was honest then. Having said that, I do believe Larry Scott and several others only used moderate doses of d-bol..but due to their work ethic and maybe genetics looked a lot better than your average- gram of test ,deca at 600 mg, insulin using, gym rat.

the averrage gym rat doesnt use insulin. the average gym rat will use whatever they can get, and usualy thats either test deca eq tren or dbol. anything out side of that is generally not used by most gym ras. and even then, they might do 2-4 cc's a week.... were talking average gym rat now... and thats exactly why they are average, that PLUS theyre training and diets suck.

any average gym rat on a good amount of quality gear and a good diet with good trianing will look good. your idea that tonsd of guys are using mega doses and look like shit, while there are some people like that, the majority its not.

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #63 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:25:02 PM »

Quote from: pumpster on September 06, 2009, 12:12:55 PM

Actually that's about the gist of what he said, that he used durabolin with an oral. Maybe you have to reread. He also said that for various reason he's sometimes go above the numbers he mentioned as the norm.

I know he said that. But the tone of the post was as if he was ashamed about it, couldn't quite remember... not coming off completely honest about the whole thing.

I don't know what he looks like this very day but he was jacked the hell up in the 80s and beyond so his drug use didn't stop in the 60s.

God knows how many people Draper's pics inspired to start drugging. He must've been like the poster boy for Dianabol

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #64 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:30:52 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on September 06, 2009, 12:13:33 PM

Have to agree with you there about Draper. I was with a friend of mine when I was 16 at the 1978 Mr. Olympia. My friend starts talking to Draper and asked him what he thought about steroids, and Draper said "I think they're great. Been taking them for years." Guess he was honest then. Having said that, I do believe Larry Scott and several others only used moderate doses of d-bol..but due to their work ethic and maybe genetics looked a lot better than your average- gram of test ,deca at 600 mg, insulin using, gym rat.

I don't think Scott was megadosing. However, I feel these old-timers feel any talk of drugs taint their legacy. Fact of the matter is that Scott and company started this whole druggie sub-culture. Don't talk against steroids and still try to earn money through your old drugged up images. If steroids were only part of a dirty shameful past then burn your old pics and leave the whole mess behind.

The ChemistV2 · « **Reply #65 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:41:56 PM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on September 06, 2009, 12:30:52 PM

I don't think Scott was megadosing. However, I feel these old-timers feel any talk of drugs taint their legacy. Fact of the matter is that Scott and company started this whole druggie sub-culture. Don't talk against steroids and still try to earn money through your old drugged up images. If steroids were only part of a dirty shameful past then burn your old pics and leave the whole mess behind.

I don't agree. There's nothing inherently bad about about using gear and having a decent physique from it. But there's a huge difference between a guy using a small dose of drugs to facilitate recuperation and positive nitrogen balance and guys that are on enrmous dosages of steroids, Growth hormone, insulin to the point they have massive guts, can barely pose on stage without requiring an oxygen tank, and having ridiculous lumpy synthol muscles. So to say a guy using 25-50 mg of dianabol a day is the same thing as a guy using 4 grams of gear a week, 10iu's GH a day, 20 ius insulin, 100 micrograms IGF1, T-3 clenbuterol, anti-estrogens is absurd. Totally different scenarios

Mr Nobody · « **Reply #66 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:42:32 PM »

Draper was a known Alcoholic I read once where would drink a fifth of liquor before working out, got to hand it to him if he could do that

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #67 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:53:19 PM »

Quote from: The ChemistV2 on September 06, 2009, 12:41:56 PM

I don't agree. There's nothing inherently bad about about using gear and having a decent physique from it. But there's a huge difference between a guy using a small dose of drugs to facilitate recuperation and positive nitrogen balance and guys that are on enrmous dosages of steroids, Growth hormone, insulin to the point they have massive guts, can barely pose on stage without requiring an oxygen tank, and having ridiculous lumpy synthol muscles. So to say a guy using 25-50 mg of dianabol a day is the same thing as a guy using 4 grams of gear a week, 10iu's GH a day, 20 ius insulin, 100 micrograms IGF1, T-3 clenbuterol, anti-estrogens is absurd. Totally different scenarios

I meant that they're against any drug use, advice against it while still using themselves etc. Drugs were still a big factor in what they "achieved".

I have no problem with them saying things have gotten out of hand.

Mars · « **Reply #68 on:** September 06, 2009, 01:51:43 PM »

Figo · « **Reply #69 on:** September 10, 2009, 08:54:55 AM »

Quote from: Van_Bilderass on September 06, 2009, 12:01:58 PM

Perhaps some are insecure, but Draper is not completely honest. He is reluctant to talk about it obviously. Maybe he's insecure, maybe he doesn't want drugs to take any credit for his physique, like LATS said. Does he look natural in the pic posted to you? Had he been honest he would've said something like, "In the 60s I cycled steroids, mostly used Durabolin with an oral. In the 70s I was whacked out of my mind on angel dust and booze and can't remember how much I used exactly. I kept using steroids and am still on them to this day. These days it's testosterone with some GH and I don't go off, what's the use at my age? I love steroids - they allow me to feel and look great. I have many decades worth of steroid use under my belt and know a lot about their application".

Instead he's reluctant and acts like he doesn't remember - like it was a youthful indiscretion only.

bingo!

Vince B · « **Reply #70 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:14:51 AM »

So the test of truth re using steroids is what the resident 'experts' say? That is preposterous. Draper has no reason to lie. What he said sounds right. He left it open by saying that some guys exceeded what he did according to heaps of factors, most irrational.

Back in the sixties we all knew about steroids but the doctors warned us the anabolic drugs could cause other growth and that made everyone scared to experiment with them. I started training in 1959 but didn't try Dianabol until 1970. Then it was 2 tabs a day for a couple of months then off then on for a couple of weeks before the contest. I got a bit bigger but a lot stronger. Durabolin was available then, too, but only for guys who accepted the injections. I didn't. So when the gains stopped the decision had to be made. Try more or give it away. I gave the competition away but not only for that reason. Looking back now I could grow much bigger because I know more about stimulating growth. There is no need for the drugs but tell that to any of the young wannabes today.

It is funny that the mentality persists where those who are not that big assume the bigger guys must take more gear. When they take bigger doses and don't grow they conclude they don't have the genetics!

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #71 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:22:40 AM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on September 10, 2009, 09:14:51 AM

some guys exceeded what he did according to heaps of factors, most irrational.

Yes using PCP was so rational and shows how afraid of drugs Draper was.

Vince B · « **Reply #72 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:45:49 AM »

Why bring up that stuff? Draper disclosed what he took re steroids. The other issues don't negate what he said there.

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #73 on:** September 10, 2009, 10:29:29 AM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on September 10, 2009, 09:45:49 AM

Why bring up that stuff? Draper disclosed what he took re steroids. The other issues don't negate what he said there.

I didn't read it as Draper saying he was never one of those who took more. A guy taking Angel Dust and drinking booze before training obviously has none of these traits he mentioned:

Quote

Levels would be
higher or lower, according to results, or need, or the rascal's
daring, carefree-ness, ignorance, innocence, desperation, madness,
ingredient availability, ego, mood and so forth.

A guy on angel dust and booze and who knows what else drugs is prone to being bat-shit mad.