Author Topic: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?  (Read 14827 times)

Royal Lion

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2009, 08:35:56 PM »
It's not even comparable.

Sherief Shalaby

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2009, 08:39:13 PM »
Dorian kills Ray.
[/quote]

:o really?! and has the police caught him :-X :-X

hipolito mejia

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2009, 10:39:09 PM »
these pics r from 1995, and he should have won then.





Wao You can beat anybody with a built like that.

Hard to believe that Judges thought Yates was better.

Signifying Monkey

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2009, 01:02:53 AM »
Wao You can beat anybody with a built like that.

Hard to believe that Judges thought Yates was better.

I agree

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pumpster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2009, 01:13:26 AM »
Wao You can beat anybody with a built like that.

Hard to believe that Judges thought Yates was better.

Ray looks great in some poses and completely disappears in others, bottom line.

Also, standing beside others he often looked like an insignificant gnat. No height, no width.

Never looked anywhere near dry.

And as someone said, he had no standout areas.

Wheeler had more muscle, deeper cuts and definitely more dryness, and even he was not big enough until the late 90s to beat Yates.

Hulkster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #130 on: September 13, 2009, 09:59:28 AM »
Dorian kills Ray.

most of those shots are from 93.

we are not talking about 93.

94 and onwards was post tear and dorian never looked the same as he did pretear.

thats where shawn overtook him:
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sculpture

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #131 on: September 13, 2009, 10:12:34 AM »
most of those shots are from 93.

we are not talking about 93.

94 and onwards was post tear and dorian never looked the same as he did pretear.

thats where shawn overtook him:

your posting 97' shots of yates and comparing them to 94' shots of ray

hardly fair

Hulkster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2009, 10:18:18 AM »
your posting 97' shots of yates and comparing them to 94' shots of ray

hardly fair

I am illustrating the point that post tear yates sucked compared to pretear yates.

oh, and here is a 97 shot, and guess what? shawn owns him! ;)
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Mr.1derful

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #133 on: September 13, 2009, 01:05:43 PM »
your posting 97' shots of yates and comparing them to 94' shots of ray

hardly fair

Hardly fair, ...to Shawn because he still couldn't hang.  Good bodybuilder, but too narrow and too small to take it all the way.  It's not as though in 1994 Shawn's physique was so different from other years, anyway.  He looked very good, but he never changed much year to year.  Even when he placed runner up, he still wasn't close to the title.

Royal Lion

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #134 on: September 13, 2009, 02:04:44 PM »
Even after 93 Dorian had too much size and was too complete for Ray to have a chance.  If anything, 94, was the closest.  Ray was awesome, but simply too small to compete with the likes of Dorian, Kevin, Nasser, or Ronnie.

Topskin69

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2009, 02:58:37 PM »
A lot of people give you shit about being an idiot , I never joined them but with this statement I'm gonna have to agree

1995 Dorian was untouchable to utter anything to the contrary is lunacy

ND: I have a question. There is a quote from you... (I can re-post it if you like). Where you said that you feel that Dorian never should have been an "O" based on his gut alone. It also said that you were a wheeler fan, and would have had him first if it were up to you.

Speak on this!

M

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2009, 03:04:20 PM »
ND: I have a question. There is a quote from you... (I can re-post it if you like). Where you said that you feel that Dorian never should have been an "O" based on his gut alone. It also said that you were a wheeler fan, and would have had him first if it were up to you.

Speak on this!

M

I never agreed with a Mr Olympia having a gut and I said they should have stopped it with Yates and we wouldn't have had this problem today and I was rooting for Flex to win in 1993 and was dumb founded when he lost I just couldn't comprehend it , and then I learned how contests were judged and then realized just how far Dorian was above everyone in 1993 , Dorian's gut in 1993 wasn't that bad compared to 1997 but I don't think it should be part of the Sandow but it's not up to what I think the Mr Olympia should be obviously , I don't think Ronnie should have won with bitch-tits in 1998 regardless of how great he looked but that's the way it goes.

Topskin69

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2009, 03:17:56 PM »
I never agreed with a Mr Olympia having a gut and I said they should have stopped it with Yates and we wouldn't have had this problem today and I was rooting for Flex to win in 1993 and was dumb founded when he lost I just couldn't comprehend it , and then I learned how contests were judged and then realized just how far Dorian was above everyone in 1993 , Dorian's gut in 1993 wasn't that bad compared to 1997 but I don't think it should be part of the Sandow but it's not up to what I think the Mr Olympia should be obviously , I don't think Ronnie should have won with bitch-tits in 1998 regardless of how great he looked but that's the way es  goes.

Ok...so whats wrong with just saying that the judging is wrong? Even the IFBB has issued several mandates that distended guts would be penalized, (which has yet to really happen). There is nothing wrong with holding out for more asthetic judging....and in the case of this paticular comparision Ray was a far more Asthetic bodybuilder then Yates could ever hope to be. I would have personally had him first in 94, and 96.

M!

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2009, 03:23:42 PM »
Ok...so whats wrong with just saying that the judging is wrong? Even the IFBB has issued several mandates that distended guts would be penalized, (which has yet to really happen). There is nothing wrong with holding out for more asthetic judging....and in the case of this paticular comparision Ray was a far more Asthetic bodybuilder then Yates could ever hope to be. I would have personally had him first in 94, and 96.

M!

You can argue all you want on what the sport should be but I'm focusing on what the sport is ! it reminds me of this quote from Mike Christian on Yates at the 93 Olympia

Mr Olympia comeptitor Mike Christain

Quote
I think Dorian meet all the IFBB terms. He had mass , he was symmetrical and he had lots of definition. I thought he won. Can he be beaten? That depends on how you look at it. I say yes. But under the IFBB terms of juging -no. Number one is mass, He has that. Number two is symmetry. He is symmetrical Under the IFBB rules , he'll keep winning and winning."


Dorian simply meet the criteria better than anyone else regardless if I think it should be different .

Topskin69

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2009, 03:30:57 PM »
You can argue all you want on what the sport should be but I'm focusing on what the sport is ! it reminds me of this quote from Mike Christian on Yates at the 93 Olympia

Mr Olympia comeptitor Mike Christain

Quote
I think Dorian meet all the IFBB terms. He had mass , he was symmetrical and he had lots of definition. I thought he won. Can he be beaten? That depends on how you look at it. I say yes. But under the IFBB terms of juging -no. Number one is mass, He has that. Number two is symmetry. He is symmetrical Under the IFBB rules , he'll keep winning and winning."


Dorian simply meet the criteria better than anyone else regardless if I think it should be different .

I understand the argument you are making, but I think it lacks validity, only becuase I really think that this is a matter, of the practical vs. the ideal. Mike Christian is correct in his observation, but not because the judging standards actully held up to the asthetic values that the IFBB puts forth, but rather what actully works in a practical manner. If contests were actully judged according to standard, then Bob Paris, Lee Labrada, Shawn Ray, and, (possibly) Kevin Levrone would all have a Sandow in their possession. The posing round would actully mean something, and so would other factors, (skin tone, presentation, the symmetry round would actully be looking at symmetry, as opposed to just being another muscularity round most of the time, etc).

This may just be a matter of semantics, but I think that the ideal that most getbiggers/bodybuilding fans espouse, is the same as the supposed ideal of the IFBB. To me it isnt unreasonable to call bullshit on the IFBB's lack of upholding their own standards.

M!

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #140 on: September 13, 2009, 03:45:21 PM »
I understand the argument you are making, but I think it lacks validity, only becuase I really think that this is a matter, of the practical vs. the ideal. Mike Christian is correct in his observation, but not because the judging standards actully held up to the asthetic values that the IFBB puts forth, but rather what actully works in a practical manner. If contests were actully judged according to standard, then Bob Paris, Lee Labrada, Shawn Ray, and, (possibly) Kevin Levrone would all have a Sandow in their possession. The posing round would actully mean something, and so would other factors, (skin tone, presentation, the symmetry round would actully be looking at symmetry, as opposed to just being another muscularity round most of the time, etc).

This may just be a matter of semantics, but I think that the ideal that most getbiggers/bodybuilding fans espouse, is the same as the supposed ideal of the IFBB. To me it isnt unreasonable to call bullshit on the IFBB's lack of upholding their own standards.

M!

The thing is ALL rounds are physique rounds , not many people know this. I've always asked this of people ever wonder how Dorian won the symmetry round despite not being the most symmetrical? answer all rounds are physique rounds , meaning ALL of the criteria is assessed at once .

Symmetry is NOT judged as a separate entity unto itself ....muscular bulk , balance development , density & dryness are ALL judge without judging symmetry alone . A very symmetrical guy should NOT win the symmetry round if he's lacking in muscular size and density , same goes with the muscularity round ( that is NOT judged on muscularity alone ) a guy should not win this round he's he's very muscular but lacks in balance & proportion and symmetry , the same holds true for the posing rounds which is exactly why Dorian always won with straight firsts. It's the guy who meets ALL of the criteria the best should be awarded the title

and people have been crying that Paris represented what bodybuilding should be or used to be and Haney shouldn't have been Mr Olympia , replace Paris with Labrada , Ray with Yates , Kevin with Ronnie , so technically the IFBB is adhering to it's own rules it's the physiques who are changing the game .

I would have had no problems with Flex Wheeler beating Dorian in 1993 from a personal preference standpoint but I know according to the criteria Yates was the better man

Hulkster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #141 on: September 13, 2009, 05:31:19 PM »

Quote
Ok...so whats wrong with just saying that the judging is wrong?

nothing.

but
its funny since ND also says that the judges are always 100% correct.. ::)

thats why he shoves scorecards down our throats when the pics and vids tell a far different story than the numbers on the page do... ::)
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Immortal_Technique

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #142 on: September 14, 2009, 03:18:43 AM »
He had no flaws?, yeh he was smaller then Yates, but Yates had flaws..






The only thing I think was his delts were not stand-out in an era where delts were becoming increasingly important. Also his back wasn't freaky massive, but still good.

BuffD

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2009, 07:32:43 AM »
only to the untrained eye...for those in the know, well, lets just say there is a reason why the shadow has such a poor post tear rep as far as physique goes...and shawn is widely believed to have been kept from winning the olympia when he really should have won.

lets not forget the whole reason this thread was started, shall we?

Ok lets see if you answer this time.  How are you an expert?  Do you compete? Have EVER competed? Are you a judge? Have you EVER judged?  Are you employed as a bodybuilding magazine writer?  Are you a Pro Trainer or nutritionist?  If you say no to all these (I'm sure you will) then you prove my point that you are nothing but a schmoe with a fantasy of kneeling in front of Big Ron's little Ronnie.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #144 on: September 14, 2009, 10:30:19 AM »
nothing.

but
its funny since ND also says that the judges are always 100% correct.. ::)

thats why he shoves scorecards down our throats when the pics and vids tell a far different story than the numbers on the page do... ::)


Yeah I never once claimed 2001 was fixed or 2002 , contests are ONLY correct when they fit your biased way of thinking

and stop claiming pics & video agree with your position , you're the idiot who claimed after looking at the pics & video Dorian lost the 1993 Mr Olympia and Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian , or Shawn Ray beats Dorian in the front latspread , and Ronnie dominated the 2001 Mr Olympia and Ronnie more even more grainy than Dorian , shut up already you dummy you see what you want and 99% of the time in directly contradicts REALITY

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #145 on: September 14, 2009, 10:33:57 AM »
Ok lets see if you answer this time.  How are you an expert?  Do you compete? Have EVER competed? Are you a judge? Have you EVER judged?  Are you employed as a bodybuilding magazine writer?  Are you a Pro Trainer or nutritionist?  If you say no to all these (I'm sure you will) then you prove my point that you are nothing but a schmoe with a fantasy of kneeling in front of Big Ron's little Ronnie.

Hahahahahhahahahaha Hulkster just got owned

he has the balls to type a ' trained eye ' ? he claimed Dorian lost the 1993 Mr Olympia to Flex Wheeler , after reviewing all the pics & videos , his ' trained eye ' lead him to the conclusion , Ronnie has more detail in his calves than Dorian did

he never even knew the judging criteria until I posted it and he still doesn't know how to apply it.

emn1964

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #146 on: September 14, 2009, 10:42:44 AM »
Hahahahahhahahahaha Hulkster just got owned

he has the balls to type a ' trained eye ' ? he claimed Dorian lost the 1993 Mr Olympia to Flex Wheeler , after reviewing all the pics & videos , his ' trained eye ' lead him to the conclusion , Ronnie has more detail in his calves than Dorian did

he never even knew the judging criteria until I posted it and he still doesn't know how to apply it.

Settle down there princess.  You both are a couple of weird little schmoes.

pumpster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #147 on: September 14, 2009, 10:49:06 AM »
whats wrong with just saying that the judging is wrong?

I understand the argument you are making, but I think it lacks validity

 To me it isnt unreasonable to call bullshit on the IFBB's lack of upholding their own standards.



She can't admit politics, both because she's a shill for both the IFBB and ironage and because it completely undermines the fantasy that these are always legit above-board "competitions" that ND somehow understands the judging of more than other mere mortals here. His heroes have "won" these fair and square.. ::)

In a nutshell, ND has expended far too much time defending this crap to back down now-too humiliating. ;D

Hope this helps.

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #148 on: September 14, 2009, 11:25:14 AM »
She can't admit politics, both because she's a shill for both the IFBB and ironage and because it completely undermines the fantasy that these are always legit above-board "competitions" that ND somehow understands the judging of more than other mere mortals here. His heroes have "won" these fair and square..

I thought I had a working knowledge of this sport, but I must be one of the uneducated masses.

Rather than constantly touting the existence of politics, please provide some examples.  Show us a competition where one competitor who lost should have clearly won.  Then provide proof of the incorrect decision and tell us the gains the "fixers" got from doing so.

I'll give you Arnold's last show, because you can see why that might happen.

Pick an Olympia from Haney on.....
Y

pumpster

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Re: How did this man never become Mr Olympia?
« Reply #149 on: September 14, 2009, 11:53:36 AM »
please provide some examples.  Show us a competition where one competitor who lost should have clearly won.  Then provide proof of the incorrect decision and tell us the gains the "fixers" got from doing so.



Already provided examples, plenty of anecdotal evidence and some times frames. Learn some history, i read about these debacles at the time as opposed to revisionist history visited here daily. ;D

Also spend some time here.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=297227.0