Author Topic: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper  (Read 13280 times)

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2009, 05:50:42 PM »
So I'm being obstinate?  (I'll need to look that up.)  Doesn't matter.  So long as you don't want to beat me up, like Hugo.  :) 

You are all over the place.  I made the following statement:

"I don't think you view life as any more valuable than me.  We just have different opinions on whether the right to life is conditional.  I think it is.  You don't.  In some states, a majority of the people agree with me.  In others (including Hawaii), they agree with you." 

You responded by saying:

"Your own statement is a contradiction."

What statement is a contradiction?  Saying there is an absolute right to life, but that people can forfeit that right, would be a contradiction.  Saying there is a conditional right to life is not a contradiction.  Not sure what you're talking about.     

You're saying I don't value life more than you, but then you're saying that people can forfeit life... Where I say that people can not because all life is equal.

That is a contradiction.

Dos Equis

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2009, 05:54:57 PM »
You're saying I don't value life more than you, but then you're saying that people can forfeit life... Where I say that people can not because all life is equal.

That is a contradiction.

It's a contradiction only to the extent that we have different opinions.  I thought you were saying my position is a contradiction.

I never said all life isn't equal.  I think it is.  All life is sacred.   

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2009, 05:57:29 PM »
It's a contradiction only to the extent that we have different opinions.  I thought you were saying my position is a contradiction.

I never said all life isn't equal.  I think it is.  All life is sacred.   

Seems like if it's sacred then you wouldn't be for eliminating it... That too is a contradiction.

Dos Equis

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2009, 06:05:12 PM »
Seems like if it's sacred then you wouldn't be for eliminating it... That too is a contradiction.

No it isn't.  A conditional right can be sacred.  Just like the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment (speech, association, religion).  All sacred, but conditional.  Gun ownership is a sacred, but conditional right too.  There are plenty.   

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2009, 06:06:40 PM »
No it isn't.  A conditional right can be sacred.  Just like the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment (speech, association, religion).  All sacred, but conditional.  Gun ownership is a sacred, but conditional right too.  There are plenty.   

I don't consider any of those conditional rights in this country.

Dos Equis

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2009, 06:12:02 PM »
I don't consider any of those conditional rights in this country.

That's fine, but your opinion doesn't change the facts.  I cannot yell an epithet in someone's face and hide behind the First Amendment.  A person cannot kill another person as part of a religious sacrifice and hide behind the First Amendment.  A person forfeits the right to vote and own a gun if he's a convicted felon. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2009, 06:13:58 PM »
That's fine, but your opinion doesn't change the facts.  I cannot yell an epithet in someone's face and hide behind the First Amendment.  A person cannot kill another person as part of a religious sacrifice and hide behind the First Amendment.  A person forfeits the right to vote and own a gun if he's a convicted felon. 

You're using extremes to make a point about human life having forfeiture of human life.

None of those things even remotely compares... There's really no causality to them at all.


George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2009, 06:14:07 PM »
Tu your argument is moronic. Plus, you didnt answer my question. Is putting a convicted child rapist/ killer to death for raping and murdering innocent children as heinous as the multiple rapes and murders perpatrated by the convicted child rapist/ killer?

If your answer is yes, then your sense of reality is warped and I thank my lucky stars someone like you isn't a policy maker or someone of importance in the legal system.

I am not a rabid fan of the death penalty. However, in certain situations it is not only proper, but necessary. The terminally ill scumbag muslim terrorist that blew up Pan Am Flight 103 and killed innocent men, women and children in a firey death trap several thousand feet off the ground deserves to be beaten to death- forget about a lethal injection. Same goes people like Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, the DC sniper, and on and on and on. The rationale is not crime prevention but retribution. When you murder multiple people, children, or commit murder in furtherance of a sexual assault, commit a terrorist act which results in death and etc.-- The state should have the option to decide whether or not to deprive you of the right to live-- just as you deprived your victims of their right to live.

As long as there are proper and adaquate safeguards in place to ensure that the wrong person is not being put to death, I do not find the death penalty immoral for certain crimes of a particularly heinous nature.

And to be specific, YES (emphasis added) their lives are worth much less than yours, mine, or a cockroaches as far as im concerned. A civilzed soceity can discern when an individual based on their conduct has forefeited their right to live. The right to life, like any fundamental right is not absolute. Someone has the right to act like a monster-- And the people have the right to hold them accountable.

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2009, 06:19:22 PM »
Tu your argument is moronic. Plus, you didnt answer my question. Is putting a convicted child rapist/ killer to death for raping and murdering innocent children as heinous as the multiple rapes and murders perpatrated by the convicted child rapist/ killer?

Apparently your comprehension is missing something.

No because death by natural causes is called living life.

Suicide is actually a crime. So no... They aren't the same. One is "taking a life", the other is not.

I don't see it as complex at all.

Yes, the death penalty is very much a heinous act. How do you put a value on the killing on another person?

Are you saying that human beings should without a doubt be allowed to judge the value of another human being?

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding something.

Please notice the bold. If  you're asking me if it's "MORE" heinous, then you're the one who's warped... Of course it's not as "Violent", but it is traumatizing and definitely heinous in it's own right. You're nitpicking about the severity.


If your answer is yes, then your sense of reality is warped and I thank my lucky stars someone like you isn't a policy maker or someone of importance in the legal system.

I am not a rabid fan of the death penalty. However, in certain situations it is not only proper, but necessary. The terminally ill scumbag muslim terrorist that blew up Pan Am Flight 103 and killed innocent men, women and children in a firey death trap several thousand feet off the ground deserves to be beaten to death- forget about a lethal injection. Same goes people like Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, the DC sniper, and on and on and on. The rationale is not crime prevention but retribution. When you murder multiple people, children, or commit murder in furtherance of a sexual assault, commit a terrorist act which results in death and etc.-- The state should have the option to decide whether or not to deprive you of the right to live-- just as you deprived your victims of their right to live.

As long as there are proper and adaquate safeguards in place to ensure that the wrong person is not being put to death, I do not find the death penalty immoral for certain crimes of a particularly heinous nature.

And to be specific, YES (emphasis added) their lives are worth much less than yours, mine, or a cockroaches as far as im concerned. A civilzed soceity can discern when an individual based on their conduct has forefeited their right to live. The right to life, like any fundamental right is not absolute. Someone has the right to act like a monster-- And the people have the right to hold them accountable.

Call me warped if you want, however... My argument is quite sound. You just don't like the answers.

No ones life is worth more or less than anyone else's.

Dos Equis

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2009, 06:21:04 PM »
You're using extremes to make a point about human life having forfeiture of human life.

None of those things even remotely compares... There's really no causality to them at all.



I was responding to your belief that none of the rights I mentioned are conditional.  I admit the human sacrifice example is extreme.  But what's extreme about someone using an epithet?  What's extreme about convicted felons losing conditional sacred rights?  
Your beef isn't with me.  It's with the legislators and the courts.  The fact is the sacred rights we enjoy are conditional, whether you agree with that proposition or not.  

garebear

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2009, 06:23:16 PM »
Right, wrong, forgive, forget... It's all bullshit.

Either killing a human being is wrong or it's not.

Two wrongs still do not make a right.


Three lefts do.
G

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2009, 06:25:02 PM »
I was responding to your belief that none of the rights I mentioned are conditional.  I admit the human sacrifice example is extreme.  But what's extreme about someone using an epithet?  What's extreme about convicted felons losing conditional sacred rights?   
Your beef isn't with me.  It's with the legislators and the courts.  The fact is the sacred rights we enjoy are conditional, whether you agree with that proposition or not. 


I never said I had a beef with you... I said you're contradicting yourself.

Either human life is sacred or it's not... If it is, you don't eliminate it.

George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2009, 06:29:44 PM »
Apparently your comprehension is missing something.

Please notice the bold. If  you're asking me if it's "MORE" heinous, then you're the one who's warped... Of course it's not as "Violent", but it is traumatizing and definitely heinous in it's own right. You're nitpicking about the severity.

Call me warped if you want, however... My argument is quite sound. You just don't like the answers.

No ones life is worth more or less than anyone else's.


LOL raping and killing multiple children is as heinous as putting the person who committed those acts to death by lethal injection? What's the weather like on your planet?

Not only is your argument unsound, its downright stupid. Being an out of touch pacifist is hardly what I would characterize as commensurate with the adjective "sound", or in sync with reality.

Whats even funnier is the fact that your avatar is of Bruce Willis from what i believe is the movie "The Jackal" which was based upon freeing a convicted IRA terrorist (Richard Gere) to help stop one of the worlds most sought after assasins (Bruce Willis). ::)

Is killing during a war ok? Or has every war since the dawn of mankind been immoral also?

 


Dos Equis

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2009, 06:30:16 PM »
I never said I had a beef with you... I said you're contradicting yourself.

Either human life is sacred or it's not... If it is, you don't eliminate it.

Unless that sacred right is conditional.  But I give up.  We're going in circles. 

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2009, 06:47:05 PM »

LOL raping and killing multiple children is as heinous as putting the person who committed those acts to death by lethal injection? What's the weather like on your planet?

Not only is your argument unsound, its downright stupid. Being an out of touch pacifist is hardly what I would characterize as commensurate with the adjective "sound", or in sync with reality.

Whats even funnier is the fact that your avatar is of Bruce Willis from what i believe is the movie "The Jackal" which was based upon freeing a convicted IRA terrorist (Richard Gere) to help stop one of the worlds most sought after assasins (Bruce Willis). ::)

Is killing during a war ok? Or has every war since the dawn of mankind been immoral also?

 



LOL who gives a shit about an avatar... It's just one of the avatars available on the site natively...

Wow... Sad.

Again... It is heinous. It's not as violent, it's not with the same evil intent, but it's still killing... Whatever dude. Sit there and believe that you are capable of judging another human and taking away their lives. I certainly will not.

George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2009, 07:10:20 PM »
Ok- So, I can make the assumption that killing during a war is also on par with murder in your universe?

Terrorists blowing up a civilian airplane is also on par with murder as well, but then again so is killing during a war?

How about if you were inside your home and a burglar entered with the intent to rape any females in the home and murder all occupants, after stealing all of their possessions-- Would you kill them if you had to... or would you nicely ask the perpatrators to leave? If they raped all the female occupants and killed your entire family, would they be justified in getting the death penalty?

Hey, lets take this a step further. Michael Vick electrocuted, drowned, and smashed in the brains of dogs until they were dead. Every day in this country thousands of dogs are put to sleep in pounds and shelters. Do you think there is a moral difference between what Vick did, and what these various pounds and animal shelters do?

I mean, your warped, but so far your remarkably consistent ( in having a warped viewpoint). Lets see how deep the psychosis goes. Your answers please--> 

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2009, 07:14:06 PM »
Ok- So, I can make the assumption that killing during a war is also on par with murder in your universe?

Terrorists blowing up a civilian airplane is also on par with murder as well, but then again so is killing during a war?

How about if you were inside your home and a burglar entered with the intent to rape any females in the home and murder all occupants, after stealing all of their possessions-- Would you kill them if you had to... or would you nicely ask the perpatrators to leave? If they raped all the female occupants and killed your entire family, would they be justified in getting the death penalty?

Hey, lets take this a step further. Michael Vick electrocuted, drowned, and smashed in the brains of dogs until they were dead. Every day in this country thousands of dogs are put to sleep in pounds and shelters. Do you think there is a moral difference between what Vick did, and what these various pounds and animal shelters do?

I mean, your warped, but so far your remarkably consistent ( in having a warped viewpoint). Lets see how deep the psychosis goes. Your answers please--> 

Yes... Killing during war is.

Yes terrorists killing is.

Yes... I would kill them and be a hypocrite, but since it's an either or situation. (Him or Me... I will choose him. It doesn't make me right... Just alive. Letting him kill me would simply be me allowing myself to be killed which is also wrong.) I will be a bit of a hypocrite, but that's what happens in that scenario.

No... no difference in the Vick vs a shelter issue. It's not a human life, so it's not at all the same thing.

I'm talking about human lives. Human life is sacred, a dog life truly isn't.

You call me warped, but to me, you are the warped one.





George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2009, 07:26:38 PM »
To many insane individuals, normal people appear insane.

Somehow, I would be willing to bet the overwhelming majority of getbig and the planet would agree with me and not you.

There are no absolute rights and wrongs. Try being a pragmatist. You'll enjoy life ( and your ever expanding absolute & fundamental right to live indefinetly) a lot more.

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2009, 09:05:29 PM »
To many insane individuals, normal people appear insane.

Somehow, I would be willing to bet the overwhelming majority of getbig and the planet would agree with me and not you.

There are no absolute rights and wrongs. Try being a pragmatist. You'll enjoy life ( and your ever expanding absolute & fundamental right to live indefinetly) a lot more.

A lot of people agree with things that are not necessarily right. If I want to stay on politics, then a certain war in Iraq comes to mind that "most" people agreed with at one time... Not so much now.

tonymctones

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2009, 09:54:21 PM »
Holmes murder and killing are not the same even though they bring about the same end they are not the same.

Murder is causing death on purpose to an innocent individual

killing is causing death with a jusitiable reason

notice how the terms cannot be used interchangeable in all situations thats b/c they dont mean the same thing...

yes its that simple

bigdumbbell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2009, 04:24:34 AM »
too much due process for sniper, kill his terrorist ass already

George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2009, 08:31:48 AM »
A lot of people agree with things that are not necessarily right. If I want to stay on politics, then a certain war in Iraq comes to mind that "most" people agreed with at one time... Not so much now.

LOL typical braindead liberal moral relativism at work sprinkled in with an idiotic comparison to the Iraq war. A war which we won by the way.

Why don't you use a more comparable example to illustrate what most people believe in doing or support others doing-- Like bathing, working, breathing, etc. Why you are comparing this discussion to the Iraq war is beyond all comprehension.

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2009, 09:08:02 AM »
LOL typical braindead liberal moral relativism at work sprinkled in with an idiotic comparison to the Iraq war. A war which we won by the way.

Why don't you use a more comparable example to illustrate what most people believe in doing or support others doing-- Like bathing, working, breathing, etc. Why you are comparing this discussion to the Iraq war is beyond all comprehension.

The comparison was appropriate as a description of an act that people were supportive of, then changed. It is not reflective of any liberal bias against the war.

It's a simple comparison that you are trying to twist into some agenda and allude that I'm trying to compare as right or wrong. It is not.

The beginning of the war there was major support for it, 3 years later, there was very little.

Do you comprehend that?

George Whorewell

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2009, 10:11:13 AM »
Your example is totally incongruous. Comparing a war which will exist over a finite period to a practice ( killing or murder) which has been taking place since the beginning of time is comparing apples and bowling balls. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I don't think that one day, out of the blue, the overwhelming majority of the population will wake up on the other side of their pillow and decide that killing during war, raping and murdering children, terrorism and accidentally killing someone are on equal moral footing.

Hope this helps.

tu_holmes

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Re: Virginia prosecutors want November execution for convicted sniper
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2009, 12:12:42 PM »
Your example is totally incongruous. Comparing a war which will exist over a finite period to a practice ( killing or murder) which has been taking place since the beginning of time is comparing apples and bowling balls. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I don't think that one day, out of the blue, the overwhelming majority of the population will wake up on the other side of their pillow and decide that killing during war, raping and murdering children, terrorism and accidentally killing someone are on equal moral footing.

Hope this helps.

Not really.

Hope this helps YOU.