Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care (Joe Wilson was right!)

[Soul Crusher]

It tells me he believes legalized citizens of this country should have healthcare.

It doesn't tell you that?

It also says that Obama believes that it should be easier to become a legal immigrant of this country.

Maybe you're reading words that I'm not.

Yes.  And once they are legal they will have access to govt health care.  So he solves the issue of illegals not getting health care very easily - MAKE THEM LEGAL. 

This is a disgrace and an outrage to think that a border jumper in the stroke a pen will have access to the same health care you will considering the fact that you have been paying taxes your whole life and that asshole paid a coyote $$$ and hopped a fence. 

Its a disgrace. 

[Straw Man]

He wants amnesty this year.  Check out the third clip.    

I watched the last clip two time and I didn't hear anything that would connect the dots that he's going to give blanket amnesty and free health care to illegal aliens.   He did talk about working on reforms including fixing the problem on our borders but it's a leap of imagination to say he's suggesting he want to"Legalize illegals to get them healthcare" as your title of this thread says

[kcballer]

Wrong.  HE never once mentioned making illegals legal.  The system itself needs to be fixed, there are many issues with it.  Such as IRS giving tax numbers to illegals who pay taxes (around 50% pay taxes by the way so using that thought the rest would likely pay taxes if they were granted legal status but that's for another thread)

[Soul Crusher]

Straw - do you really think Obama would ever admit that in public?  

He is certainly not that naive.  

This is about votes and ensuring a win in 2012, and nothing else.  

[Soul Crusher]

Wrong.  HE never once mentioned making illegals legal.  The system itself needs to be fixed, there are many issues with it.  Such as IRS giving tax numbers to illegals who pay taxes (around 50% pay taxes by the way so using that thought the rest would likely pay taxes if they were granted legal status but that's for another thread)

He has stated many times he wants amnesty in the first year. 

[kcballer]

He has stated many times he wants amnesty in the first year. 

He hasn't said for whom, it could be for those undocumented workers who pay taxes. I would be all for that.  Wouldn't you? They pay taxes and see nothing out of it, no social security, etc that to me signals they will be productive members of america.

[Straw Man]

Straw - do you really think Obama would ever admit that in public?  

He is certainly not that naive.  

This is about votes and ensuring a win in 2012, and nothing else.  

oh - ok

I see where you're coming from now.

you just "know" what he really intends

gotcha

[Soul Crusher]

oh - ok

I see where you're coming from now.

you just "know" what he really intends

gotcha

Let me put this in terms you can understand because you are mesmerized by this fraud.

Do you really think GWB would ever have admitted to going to war with Iraq solely for oil and to aggrandize his friends who are govt contractors? 

Of course not.  Its the same thing.   

[Straw Man]

Let me put this in terms you can understand because you are mesmerized by this fraud.

Do you really think GWB would ever have admitted to going to war with Iraq solely for oil and to aggrandize his friends who are govt contractors? 

Of course not.  Its the same thing.   

you think that's the same

tell me how Obama will benefit from your concept that he wants to "Legalize illegals to get them healthcare"

will he benefit directly, will some corporate ally benefit, will his friends benefit?

what's the motivation?

btw - at the current rate he's not going to help anyone get healthcare

[Soul Crusher]

you think that's the same

tell me how Obama will benefit from your concept that he wants to "Legalize illegals to get them healthcare"

will he benefit directly, will some corporate ally benefit, will his friends benefit?

what's the motivation?

btw - at the current rate he's not going to help anyone get healthcare

VOTES! 

Can you imagine the electoral impact of 12-20 million new voters and their families?

2012 would be guaranteed for him.   

[Straw Man]

VOTES! 

Can you imagine the electoral impact of 12-20 million new voters and their families?

2012 would be guaranteed for him.   

Ok - you need to flesh out our CT's so we all can understand

so it's all a scam to get votes in 2012

he didn't seem to need them in 2008 so why would he need an elaborate scheme to "legalize them and get them health care" to get votes in 2012?

Shit, if he just fixed healthcare he'd have all the votes he needed from people that are already citizens.

I'm not buying it

Do you have any other theories?

[shootfighter1]

Straw, I agree that 333 is making an interpretation, but there are many on the far left who want blanket legalization of illegals so they can attract more people to the democratic party.  Hispanics are a huge voting block.  Actually, I think more hispanic families are conservative in their actual beliefs, but both parties are going to reach out as much as possible.

[shootfighter1]

kc, if you think 50% of illegal immigrants in this country pay taxes, you're drinking the coolaid.

Many illegals work under the table in service and labor sectors.  Many small companies avoid taxes by not reporting them and are able to pay illegals less.  We are missing taxation at the company and individual levels.  Just like how many independent plummers, Heating/Air Conditioning, electricians, landscapers, carpenders, etc are reporting all $ made on small jobs.  Its way under-reported.  Even in farming, you think crop pickers are all paying taxes? 

[George Whorewell]

Why is his plan a "scheme"?

It's called smart politics. You dumbasses call 333 a CT wack job merely because he's connecting the dots for you lamebrain Obama cheerleaders.

A+B=C

Agenda, ideology and reelection are the names of the game. From the confirmation of Sotamayor, to the reconfiguration of the census, legalizing what will turn into 20 million votes and nearly all hispanic votes, making the upper crust of the country pay the way of the less productive members of society= All Brilliant politics to keep the democrats in Power and help Obama get re-elected.

Obviously Obama is not going to come right out and say what he intends to do--- DUH

When Bush wanted to massively expand the powers of the government in the war on terror, did he come out and say-"Hey everyone, I'll be personally wiretapping US citizens without a warrant." Of course not. He used a vague and deliberate pre-text coupled with a legitimate crisis ( 911) to do so, and it worked.

Obama's actions are predicated on the same formula Bush followed after 911-- The economy is used as a springboard to further all the programs, reforms, and changes that are consistent with the lefts agenda. I have been saying this for almost a year and nobody is paying attention.

You guys really need to take a few classes in political science, read a few books, or just wise up.

[Dos Equis]

We don't need immigration reform.  We need to enforce the laws on the books. 

[Grape Ape]

so it's all a scam to get votes in 2012

he didn't seem to need them in 2008 so why would he need an elaborate scheme to "legalize them and get them health care" to get votes in 2012?

Outside of the conversation at hand, do you really believe that voters feel the same way right now?  Of course he'd need votes.

[George Whorewell]

Exactly Grape-


Based on Straws flawless logic, because the republicans didn't need X votes from X voters in 1857, why would they need them in 2012, 2014 or in the year 3000?

When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.

Why would the democrats need the guaranteed votes of 70 million people? Geesh. I can't figure it out. It really is a mystery. 

[Soul Crusher]

Exactly Grape-


Based on Straws flawless logic, because the republicans didn't need X votes from X voters in 1857, why would they need them in 2012, 2014 or in the year 3000?

When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.

Why would the democrats need the guaranteed votes of 70 million people? Geesh. I can't figure it out. It really is a mystery. 

My posts on this are not CT at all.  They are common sense to anyone honest enough to admit the obvious. 

Straw - you cant look at things in a vacuum on this.  You have to look at everything as a whole to see what is going on, and it is obvious.  He is not going to say publicly what he wants to do because he knows there will be a bi-partisan rebellion against him.  Thus, he needs to play word games and hide his true agenda and use terms and catch phrases that although maybe not lies at that moment, are ommissions of other pertinent facts that uninformed people are unaware of.   

Obama neads health care first because YES it is his Waterloo.  If health care fails, so does everything else.  cap 7 Trade, card check, amnesty, etc.   

He simply cant engage in talks of amnesty before health care because if he did, he would get neither.  By doing health care, then followed by amnesty, he at least has a chance to get one of the two.  The other way he would get none of the two and would piss off hispanics to the point they will stay home in 2012. 

Do you not understand what is going on here?

[240 is Back]

When you expand your base by 20 million people and pander to the 50 million+ hispanic voters that are already in the country legally, you create a bloc with the largest minority group in the country.

great point.  Obama is pretty much printing voter registration cards with a "D" on them.

[Parker]

Why is his plan a "scheme"?

It's called smart politics. You dumbasses call 333 a CT wack job merely because he's connecting the dots for you lamebrain Obama cheerleaders.

A+B=C

Agenda, ideology and reelection are the names of the game. From the confirmation of Sotamayor, to the reconfiguration of the census, legalizing what will turn into 20 million votes and nearly all hispanic votes, making the upper crust of the country pay the way of the less productive members of society= All Brilliant politics to keep the democrats in Power and help Obama get re-elected.

Obviously Obama is not going to come right out and say what he intends to do--- DUH

When Bush wanted to massively expand the powers of the government in the war on terror, did he come out and say-"Hey everyone, I'll be personally wiretapping US citizens without a warrant." Of course not. He used a vague and deliberate pre-text coupled with a legitimate crisis ( 911) to do so, and it worked.

Obama's actions are predicated on the same formula Bush followed after 911-- The economy is used as a springboard to further all the programs, reforms, and changes that are consistent with the lefts agenda. I have been saying this for almost a year and nobody is paying attention.

You guys really need to take a few classes in political science, read a few books, or just wise up.

I understand what you are saying, but that slippery slope, if  this comes to pass, he's setting up America for a 1861 Redux, anybody can see that. Plus when you give people who break the law a reason to break the some more and or demand more things---chaos. Then those people who were illegal lose the benefits that they have when they were not citizens,  and realize that there are now consequences for their actions, more chaos. And what about the next wave of Second Class Citizens--when they see the way to get their way is to illegally cross the borders, stay here and do menial jobs and be exploited--excuse me, more 21st century Slavery, then that will happen again.

Don't we learn from our own History, oops, well, we're talking about Americans aren't we?

[Kazan]

when they see the way to get their way is to illegally cross the borders, stay here and do menial jobs and be exploited--excuse me, more 21st century Slavery, then that will happen again.

How exactly do you come up with slavery? No one if forcing people to come into this country illegally, no one buying or selling illegals and forcing them to work. They come to the US of their own free will, and if they think they are being exploited the turn around head back to where ever they came from.

[tu_holmes]

How exactly do you come up with slavery? No one if forcing people to come into this country illegally, no one buying or selling illegals and forcing them to work. They come to the US of their own free will, and if they think they are being exploited the turn around head back to where ever they came from.

I do agree to an extent.

They are "kind of" being exploited... but it's certainly not slavery. Everyone who comes to this country even to take the most menial job will do so because they will undoubtedly be doing better financially then they would have in their own home.

Do they get paid lower, sure, but they are willing to do so and it is most assuredly not a requirement that they come into this country. They do it of their own free will.

[Soul Crusher]

I do agree to an extent.

They are "kind of" being exploited... but it's certainly not slavery. Everyone who comes to this country even to take the most menial job will do so because they will undoubtedly be doing better financially then they would have in their own home.

Do they get paid lower, sure, but they are willing to do so and it is most assuredly not a requirement that they come into this country. They do it of their own free will.

They do this so they can come here, use our services, squat wherever they can, and send money home to build a house down there. 

They dont want to be citizens.  They want to work for cash to send home. 

Many have two wives and their kids here get all sorts of benes, etc and cost us a fortune.   

[tu_holmes]

They do this so they can come here, use our services, squat wherever they can, and send money home to build a house down there. 

They dont want to be citizens.  They want to work for cash to send home. 

Many have two wives and their kids here get all sorts of benes, etc and cost us a fortune.   

That's very much not true. Especially the 2 wives part of it. Where the hell do you even get this stuff?

Some don't want to be citizens, sure... but the vast majority do. The system is very flawed.

You do realize the offset of you paying for a few illegals is that your oranges aren't 40bucks for 3 right?

[kcballer]

kc, if you think 50% of illegal immigrants in this country pay taxes, you're drinking the coolaid.

Many illegals work under the table in service and labor sectors.  Many small companies avoid taxes by not reporting them and are able to pay illegals less.  We are missing taxation at the company and individual levels.  Just like how many independent plummers, Heating/Air Conditioning, electricians, landscapers, carpenders, etc are reporting all $ made on small jobs.  Its way under-reported.  Even in farming, you think crop pickers are all paying taxes? 

Check with the IRS they produce tax numbers of undocumented workers to pay taxes.  around 50% of the total illegal alien group pays some form of tax to the IRS.  Look into it if you want.  You don't need a green card to pay taxes.