Author Topic: Obama is at war with his Generals  (Read 7030 times)

Soul Crusher

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Obama is at war with his Generals
« on: September 27, 2009, 08:43:15 AM »
September 27, 2009
Obama At War With His General
By Ruben Navarrette


SAN DIEGO -- You can place a top general in Afghanistan, but you can't tell him what to think.

Call that one of President Obama's first lessons as commander in chief. The person who took the president to school on that point was Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who was named by Obama just a few months ago as the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan.
 
You would think the president would put a high value on what his commander has to say. But apparently in Obamaland the wisdom of the messenger is directly proportional to whether the White House wants to heed the message. And there seems to be a lot that McChrystal wants to say that the White House isn't ready to hear.

According to McClatchy Newspapers, military officials in Kabul and Washington say that the White House and Pentagon over the last six weeks had issued directives telling McChrystal not to submit a specific request for an increase in U.S. forces; the general is said to want as many as 45,000 additional troops. The administration isn't ready to consider that option. Instead, McChrystal sent his 66-page report last month to Defense Secretary Robert Gates. As everyone knows by now, the general concluded that the U.S. effort in Afghanistan "will likely result in failure" without a new strategy and an urgent infusion of troops. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. David H. Petraeus, the head of U.S. Central Command, both backed that assessment.

Obama's own arguments about what to do in Afghanistan have not been very persuasive. Not even to himself. In March, he declared that the United States would prevent the return of the Taliban and "enhance the military, governance and economic capacity" of Afghanistan in order to help prevent al-Qaeda from returning and once again using the country as a launching pad for further attacks against the United States. But now the president seems to be backing off from his own hard line. On CBS' "Face the Nation," Obama said that "the only reason I send a single young man or woman in uniform anywhere in the world is because I think it's necessary to keep us safe. ... We're not gonna put the cart before the horse and just think by sending more troops (to Afghanistan) we're automatically going to make Americans safe."

So what's changed? The administration has been floating this line that with the integrity of the recent Afghan election in doubt, we can't be sure we have a reliable partner in Kabul.

Yet what seems to be a reversal on Afghanistan has little to do with a foreign election. This is about politics here at home.

Polls show that Americans have lost their appetite for continuing the fight in Afghanistan. A recent CNN/Opinion Research poll found only 39 percent of Americans favor the war -- an all-time low -- and 58 percent are opposed to it.

And then there's the health care debate, which has worsened the relationship between Congress and the White House and stirred up a sizable amount of public discontent toward the administration. This has made it difficult for the White House to convince Americans to sign on to anything.

So no matter what Obama said in the spring, it is no surprise that many White House advisers including Vice President Joe Biden are looking for a way to leave Afghanistan. That would be a grave mistake, and an abdication of Obama's duty to keep Americans safe by preventing more acts of terrorism. More than a clumsy flip-flop on policy, it would also be an outright betrayal of the military leaders that he put in charge of the operation in Afghanistan.

According to McClatchy, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to do what is necessary.

Good question. We should all be asking the same thing.

And at least three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that McChrystal would probably resign rather than co-sign a failed policy that puts U.S. troops in danger.

McChrystal is in a tough spot. When he isn't fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, he has to combat ignorance and cowardice on the Potomac. The general might have to end his career over this. But he shouldn't back down -- not when strong leaders are in such short supply.

ruben.navarrette@uniontrib.com

________________________ _________________-

Ill say it first, Obama is so overhead his head even he does not realize it. 

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 08:46:34 AM »
There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.
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The Showstoppa

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 08:48:47 AM »
You know what's interesting is that many who criticized the Bush admin for being in Iraq would always say "we are in the wrong country, we should be in Afghanistan!"  yet now, you don't see them supporting action in Afghan either.  What gives?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 08:50:04 AM »
There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.

How disgraceful this son of Kaddafi is.  The surge is what saved Iraq and Traitor-in-Chief was against that too.  


headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2009, 08:51:28 AM »
Thats the deal man, Barry can't get anything done in Congress and does not want to be distracted by this pesky war thing, while trying to ram home his maxist agenda. Afghanistan was the good war when the Dems needed to appear stong on foreign policy, just not Iraq. Now they are flailing along and want to cut and run.....thats what they do best.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 08:54:33 AM »
Thats the deal man, Barry can't get anything done in Congress and does not want to be distracted by this pesky war thing, while trying to ram home his maxist agenda. Afghanistan was the good war when the Dems needed to appear stong on foreign policy, just not Iraq. Now they are flailing along and want to cut and run.....thats what they do best.

Its hard for me to even talk to people i know who voted for obama anymore knowing full well the disgrace, disaster, dishonor, and debt they helped usher in.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2009, 08:56:44 AM »
I can't stomach him, and I know full well this asshole or one of them will be serving me my turkey this year. Every time he mentions the sacrifices our guys have made, it makes me want to puke. He wanted to bail in Iraq....he makes me ill.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 09:01:02 AM »
I can't stomach him, and I know full well this asshole or one of them will be serving me my turkey this year. Every time he mentions the sacrifices our guys have made, it makes me want to puke. He wanted to bail in Iraq....he makes me ill.

Wether we should be there or not is one issue.  However, once committed, to me it is a disgrace and dishonor to the fallen soldiers not to win the mission and let their familes and the nation feel that all is not lost. 

Obama's refusal to support the surge is reason alone to question anything he does knowing the results it had.

The fact is that he is a moron and is not bright in the least bit.  Without his teleprompter he is an incoherhent college marxist radical professor. 

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2009, 09:40:22 AM »
Wether we should be there or not is one issue.  However, once committed, to me it is a disgrace and dishonor to the fallen soldiers not to win the mission and let their familes and the nation feel that all is not lost. 

Obama's refusal to support the surge is reason alone to question anything he does knowing the results it had.

The fact is that he is a moron and is not bright in the least bit.  Without his teleprompter he is an incoherhent college marxist radical professor. 

If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight?  You think the military is stretched thin right now?  Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman.  I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up. 

Skip8282

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2009, 09:47:57 AM »
You know what's interesting is that many who criticized the Bush admin for being in Iraq would always say "we are in the wrong country, we should be in Afghanistan!"  yet now, you don't see them supporting action in Afghan either.  What gives?

IMHO, the issue is that Obama has not clearly defined his policy for our objectives in Afghanistan.  Our military can only offer advice and guidance depending on what the CIC decides and right now, they're shooting in the dark.  Is it to eradicate the Taliban?  Catch Osama?  Support the current (and likely very corrupt) government?  Restore infrastructure?  All of the above?

Until Obama clearly sets out what he wants our objectives to be now that he's POTUS, I think there will continue to be a disconnect between the White House and the military.  And Barry just seems to be trying to feel which way the politicals winds are blowing.

Skip8282

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2009, 09:53:48 AM »
If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight?  You think the military is stretched thin right now?  Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman.  I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up. 

I see his post sailed way, way over your head.  He didn't say he was staunchly supporting our presence, only that if the decision is made for us to be there, then we have to support our military with everything they need.

I'm getting the feeling your intellectual level is along the lines of The Luke, Jag, Mons?

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2009, 10:01:26 AM »
Don't worry Muscles   I can fire with both hands...3's off the hook. Besides he does his part..he supports the troops, more then I can say for u bedpan boy.
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tonymctones

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2009, 10:21:45 AM »
If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight?  You think the military is stretched thin right now?  Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman.  I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up.  
just plain idiocy and been spouted here by many a liberal...

im guessing your against homelessness and probably for a single payer option health care system or at least everybody having health care?

you have any homeless ppl living in your house?

pay for anybodies medical bills out of pocket and not through taxes?

well then stfu and put your money where you mouth is clown...

George Whorewell

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2009, 10:55:34 AM »
If you are such a staunch supporter of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq why don't you go sign up and go fight?  You think the military is stretched thin right now?  Add in a troop surge in Afghanistan and possible war with Iran and they'll need every able bodied man and woman.  I'm not being a smart ass bro I'm being dead serious........every won who is so pro war should go put their money where their mouth is and sign up. 

What a stupid comment. I am also against genocide, nuclear weapons and terrorism, as are most people, but by your logic nobody should support something, or ever do anything unless they are willing to die for something they support. My 72 year old neihbor and WW2 veteran supports ending the genocide in Darfur. Should he fly to the Sudan, get on a donkey and fight the Sudanese government?

I am against rapists and child molestors-- Should I quit my job, desert my family and friends and start my own amateur "caught on camera" series where I make citizens arrests against the bad guys?

Obama supports the war in Afghanistan-- Should he personally put on fatigues and enter the battlefield with a bazooka?



Ok, now that your argument has been exposed are utterly fucking moronic, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and STFU.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2009, 11:20:52 AM »
He does put his mouth and sponge on things....does that count.
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MM2K

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2009, 11:25:01 AM »
Obama is a disaster. He is metaphorically hiding under his desk. I have no confidence in him whatsoever.


Quote
IMHO, the issue is that Obama has not clearly defined his policy for our objectives in Afghanistan.  Our military can only offer advice and guidance depending on what the CIC decides and right now, they're shooting in the dark.  Is it to eradicate the Taliban?  Catch Osama?  Support the current (and likely very corrupt) government?  Restore infrastructure?  All of the above?

To be fair, I think its the job of the Secretary of Defense, the Undersecretary of Defense, the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, and the heads of the Chiefs of Staff to advise the President on what those objectives should be, and the President approves of them. My problem with Obama is that I just dont get the sense that he views this Afghanistan mission to be very important. He doesnt seem very passionate about it. Ofcourse, what do you expect from somebody that holds a goddam joint session of Congress about healthcare only two days before the anniversary of 9/11?  He needs to put his foot down and proclaim that we are staying in Afghanistan. Be a goddam leader. Im not going to blame him for not immediately sending the troops that Mcrystal requested. That piece of info should never have leaked. Some people dont know if more troops is the answer. But he also needs to realize the cost of too much delay.

Say what you want to about Bush's management of the early stages of the Iraq war. Atleast he was a leader. Atleast he was steadfast in proclaiming that we would never retreat, no matter how much people in both parties screamed. Bush and McCain would be on a podium right now saying that we are not leaving.

I heard Obama's response to a question concerning Iran's nukes from a reporter, and he did his usual glib bloviating. Talking for 2 or 3 mintues and not saying a dam thing. It was embarassing. I have to admit that when he does that in response to economic and social issues, there is a small superficial part of me that is somewhat mesmerized. But when he does it in response to pressing foriegn policy matters like Iran, he sounds like a complete joke and a disgrace.

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headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2009, 11:32:15 AM »
I'm not going to cut and paste what MM2k was talking about but the CBS/ABC reporter asked him about something regarding victory over Iran if they get them to stop the nuke plants....Barry said he wasn't interested in victory, just fixing a problem. Its bigger then a problem Barry...he doesn't care and he doesn't get it. Those National Security briefs must be magic. U could tell him we're being invaded and as long as our enemy didn't interrupt his agenda, no big deal.
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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 01:09:14 PM »
There were rumors that Stan was prepared to quit. This guy has never failed at anything...we will see what the shitbag n chief does.

No way you're an Officer. I even doubt you're active Military......if Military at all.

Skip8282

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 02:51:20 PM »
No way you're an Officer. I even doubt you're active Military......if Military at all.

It must hurt, huh, Mons?  Knowing that HH6 is a successful military officer.  Fretting over your dishonorable discharge.  Constantly obsessing over how things might have turned out for you if the SSgt hadn't walked into that closet and found you on your knees, a PFC's dick in your mouth, and your hands...

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2009, 03:50:14 PM »
Damm Skip how did u know.....of course ol' Mons would never know what an Officer does because u actually have to make it out of Basic. There are sooo many ways for u to put this to bed but u won't because u can't. I;ve given about a million outs and u can't do it. I can call Barry anything I want...I'm not doing it as official Army policy, nobody is quoting me. I think Skip just destroyed u for the 9 trillionth time anyway.
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MM2K

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2009, 04:01:45 PM »
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240 is Back

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2009, 04:27:37 PM »
i always figured the prez was in charge.  not the generals.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2009, 04:31:07 PM »
i always figured the prez was in charge.  not the generals.

Brilliant 240 - Obama has never even led a hot dog stand and now you are comfortable with him leading the wars? 


240 is Back

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2009, 04:59:10 PM »
Brilliant 240 - Obama has never even led a hot dog stand and now you are comfortable with him leading the wars? 

I never said that.  I just remember bush getting heat - rightfully so - for just letting generals decide how to run shit.  A military man is never going to say "let's scale back our forces by 50%" 

Military folks like it safe and powerful - you put 300k men in an area, you kill everything with a teststerone level, and you call it a win. 

Civilians like 'precision' hits (which is anything but) and small sterile wars. 

no prez should ever let the military make all the calls.

Skip8282

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Re: Obama is at war with his Generals
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 05:39:04 PM »
I never said that.  I just remember bush getting heat - rightfully so - for just letting generals decide how to run shit.  A military man is never going to say "let's scale back our forces by 50%" 

Military folks like it safe and powerful - you put 300k men in an area, you kill everything with a teststerone level, and you call it a win. 

Civilians like 'precision' hits (which is anything but) and small sterile wars. 

no prez should ever let the military make all the calls.

The POTUS sets the overall strategy with input from the military.  The exact logistics of carrying out that strategy is typically left to the military, though as a practical matter I think we all realize there will be some degree of civilian intervention at the top.

I just saw McChrystal on 60 minutes and one of the things he's pounding into the troops is the reduction of civilian casualties.  He said point blank that we needed to reduce civilian casualties if we were to have any chance of success whatsoever.  He said a lot and it was interesting, but basically it boiled down to fighting a smarter war and most importantly getting the civilian population on our side.

Something else I found interesting is that since Obama took office, he has only spoken to McChrystal once.